Subwoofer External Amplifier?

Gigahertz

Gigahertz

Enthusiast
Hello,

I'm looking to my audiophile enthusiasts for some knowledge in regards to external amps for powering subwoofers.
My Hypex HS200 plate amplifier bought the farm and I can't find a replacement plate amplifier with the same dims, so my only alternative is going with an external amp. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Prerequisites:
Under $400
Enough headroom to drive a 400W Dayton RSS315HF-4 (4 ohm) driver
High pass filter at 20 Hz

Thx, GHz
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Perhaps a Crown XLS1002 with a minidsp unit but will probably exceed $400....the Behringer iNuke 3000DSP would cost less but has a noisy fan. Those are the most cost effective ways of going I'm aware of.
 
Gigahertz

Gigahertz

Enthusiast
I looked at the Crown XLS1002, but its maxes out 350W. Shouldn't the amp be rated higher than the driver, so that I have head room? By chance have you heard anything in regards to the Behringer NX3000D? Thx, GHz
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I looked at the Crown XLS1002, but its maxes out 350W. Shouldn't the amp be rated higher than the driver, so that I have head room? By chance have you heard anything in regards to the Behringer NX3000D? Thx, GHz
Bridged the Crown XLS1002 will deliver quite a bit more....just one sub, right? If you want to reserve a channel or not run bridged the XLS1502 has 500wpc in 4 ohm. What sub is it? Difference between 350 and 400w is less than 1dB. Takes a doubling of power to get 3dB spl. I run Crown 1500s on my subs unbridged even tho they can handle much more power, I just don't need it at the levels I'm using them at (but have run them bridged as well).

I've seen mention of the new Behringers but don't know much about them, last I saw they were not quite available but I don't really follow Behringer, would prefer to use Crown or QSC (another option altho not that familiar with their lineup as to what would be a good match or fit budget)....wonder if Behringer did anything about the fan noise when they prettied it up (notice still no rca input, tho).
 
Gigahertz

Gigahertz

Enthusiast
Ok. I read a post somewhere warning against running in bridged mode, but it was in regards to Behringer not Crown amplifiers. Yes, I only have one sub. It's an Adire Audio 142.5L Vented Shiva enclosure. It originally had a 12" Shiva driver, but it was recently replaced with a 12" Dayton RSS315HF-4 driver.
For running in bridged mode do I need a Y cable to plug into Channels 1 & 2 RCA inputs and connect my speaker wire from my driver to the Red terminals. I'm having a hard time trying to wrap my head around connecting to both of the red terminals, but that's what it looks like on the rear panel. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge.
 

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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Did someone model that cabinet's spec for the Dayton driver replacement? Is that how you know you need a protective high pass filter at 20hz? Cabinets and ports are generally designed for a specific driver via the T/S parameters....hopefully that new driver checked out as a good replacement for the previous driver.

You would normally connect your sub pre-out to just the ch 1 input for a single sub. If you had dual subs and two pre-outs with separately managed level/delay then you might want to use each of the channel 1/2 input, though. You would connect the ch 1 speaker terminal with speaker wire to the sub (do you have a plan to keep the plate amp in place and adding a terminal or snake the wires through a hole in the plate amp or?). Bridging wiring is slightly different. The amp has some flexibility on input and output, suggest you review the manual before doing anything too creative :)

Bridging can be an issue if the amp is only capable of driving 4 ohm loads to begin with, as bridging would change that capability to 8 ohms essentially; the Crown amp is rated for 2 ohm use and bridging it into 4 ohm is not an issue (I have done so as I think I mentioned). The Behringer 6000 amp was one model where bridging was an issue IIRC, as it was essentially already a pair of bridged 3000 amps.

You're quite welcome.
 
Gigahertz

Gigahertz

Enthusiast
Yes, one of the techs from Parts Express modeled it. I attached the email from the PE tech. I forgot that he said that I shouldn't have an issue with bottoming out, but I've read that you should always run with a high pass filter with ported subs to protect your driver if and when the audio falls below your port tuning. Yes, I will definitely read the manual before getting too creative :)
On your 1500 are there set frequencies for the crossovers or do they have a range from Hz to Hz? Thanks again!
 

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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Sounds like you could do without the high pass filter, maybe just the Crown will suffice. Do you push this to it's limits when playing a movie/music with such low content as he mentions?

The type of crossover in the Crown XLS amps is for using a bass speaker with an upper range speaker....like a live performance (and if you find an online manual the specific frequencies for the low pass and high pass filters are listed, they're a bit different for the gen 2 amps like the 1002 and not listed in the manuals). I've not found a use for it at all myself and it is not a replacement for your avr's bass management. Do you use an avr or something else?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Yes, one of the techs from Parts Express modeled it. I attached the email from the PE tech. I forgot that he said that I shouldn't have an issue with bottoming out, but I've read that you should always run with a high pass filter with ported subs to protect your driver if and when the audio falls below your port tuning. Yes, I will definitely read the manual before getting too creative :)
On your 1500 are there set frequencies for the crossovers or do they have a range from Hz to Hz? Thanks again!
Absolutely never believe anything from the clowns at Parts Express.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Yes, one of the techs from Parts Express modeled it. I attached the email from the PE tech. I forgot that he said that I shouldn't have an issue with bottoming out, but I've read that you should always run with a high pass filter with ported subs to protect your driver if and when the audio falls below your port tuning. Yes, I will definitely read the manual before getting too creative :)
On your 1500 are there set frequencies for the crossovers or do they have a range from Hz to Hz? Thanks again!
It so happens I have modeled both of those drivers previously and the models are published on my website.

This is the vented Shiva model optimum box.

This is the Dayton Audio-rss315hf

As you will see the Dayton ree 315hf -4 -12 requires a smaller box and you need to loose just over a cubic foot of volume. In addition the port dimensions need to be modified. Port dimensions are extremely critical and even small errors in the dimensions have a marked effect.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
It might be interesting if you'd post up the specs of your current box/port and see what that translates to....
 
Gigahertz

Gigahertz

Enthusiast
It so happens I have modeled both of those drivers previously and the models are published on my website.

This is the vented Shiva model optimum box.

This is the Dayton Audio-rss315hf

As you will see the Dayton ree 315hf -4 -12 requires a smaller box and you need to loose just over a cubic foot of volume. In addition the port dimensions need to be modified. Port dimensions are extremely critical and even small errors in the dimensions have a marked effect.
Changing the port dimension wouldn't be a problem, but with my subs internal bracing I don't know how I would lose a cubic foot unless I used something like Great Stuff spray foam insulation... What would you suggest? Thank you for your input!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Changing the port dimension wouldn't be a problem, but with my subs internal bracing I don't know how I would lose a cubic foot unless I used something like Great Stuff spray foam insulation... What would you suggest? Thank you for your input!
The time honored method is to use dry builders sand.

However a model need to be run with your box volume Vb and the existing port dimensions.
 
Gigahertz

Gigahertz

Enthusiast
It might be interesting if you'd post up the specs of your current box/port and see what that translates to....
Well TLS Guy was correct... The PE tech lied through his teeth when he told me that I didn't need to modify my existing enclosure.
I downloaded WinISD and entered my enclosure, Dayton RSS315HF-4 and Crown XLS 1002 specs and came up with the attached. I'm pretty sure that I entered everything correctly...I'm a novice at best.
I can't say that the Max Power graph looks pretty and I'll definitely need a high pass filter to keep my cone excursion in check. Please see attached. Sorry it was too large to upload in just one file...
 

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Last edited:
Gigahertz

Gigahertz

Enthusiast
Sounds like you could do without the high pass filter, maybe just the Crown will suffice. Do you push this to it's limits when playing a movie/music with such low content as he mentions?

The type of crossover in the Crown XLS amps is for using a bass speaker with an upper range speaker....like a live performance (and if you find an online manual the specific frequencies for the low pass and high pass filters are listed, they're a bit different for the gen 2 amps like the 1002 and not listed in the manuals). I've not found a use for it at all myself and it is not a replacement for your avr's bass management. Do you use an avr or something else?
Yes, I believe the Crown should suffice. I crank it up while watching movies, but no where near its limit. I emailed Crown to find out what the specs are in regards to the crossover settings. Yes, I use my AVRs bass management.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Yes, I believe the Crown should suffice. I crank it up while watching movies, but no where near its limit. I emailed Crown to find out what the specs are in regards to the crossover settings. Yes, I use my AVRs bass management.
The crossover dsp is not going to help you if you have an avr. It isn''t for managing a subwoofer's protective high pass filter (the lowest one is 30hz per the manual).
 
Gigahertz

Gigahertz

Enthusiast
The crossover dsp is not going to help you if you have an avr. It isn''t for managing a subwoofer's protective high pass filter (the lowest one is 30hz per the manual).
Bummer. Do you know of any external amps that have a subsonic filter? If not, do you know who's making the best plate amps today? Thanks
 
Gigahertz

Gigahertz

Enthusiast
The time honored method is to use dry builders sand.

However a model need to be run with your box volume Vb and the existing port dimensions.
My Vb is 142.5 liters and my existing Dv = 4.0", Lv = 18", with flared ports on both sides. Would you say that one 50 lb. bag would equate to 1 cubic foot? Thank you for your time and knowledge.
 
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