Subwoofer Bang for Buck Comparison

[Tomorrow]

One of the things I am concerned about is the STF-1 being rated at 32Hz whereas the E250P is rated at 25Hz. Isn't part of the reason for getting the sub is not just to move the lower frequencies over from the mains, but being able to go deeper than what I currently have. Going from 35Hz in my mains "down" to 32Hz doesn't seem like such a step compared to going down to 25Hz of the E250P or 22Hz of the S120PII. The JBL's also have more power (250 and 400 vs. 150).

And maybe it doesn't matter the way sound works, but doesn't a front firing sub give you more "feel" than a back or down firing model?

I hate to even bring it up but a local guy is selling the older PSW-D110 for about $100..no tax, no shipping, go and pick it up. The specs on it are closer to the STF-1. 10", 30Hz, and 150W. I know from what I have been told that the SFT-1 is WAY better...but would *I* know the difference? Would it be 3X better? Would I get 3X the pleasure?

Thanks very much for taking your holiday and trying to help me with the confusing decision.

Lew

You asked for our experiences, Lew. YOU have to make the decision.

For further information, I'll tell you that JBL specs are inflated. (Most companies do inflate their speakers f.r. Hsu does not.) My STF-1 went deeper (25 Hz) than the S120PII. You WILL notice the difference as several have said here. For certain you will appreciate its tightness and musicality. And if it's just loudness (spl) you want...the STF-1 was superior there, too.

I totally believe that a downfiring sub provides more "feel" as you put it, and the source is less directional. I would use front-firing only with two subs, separated and f.r. balanced in the room.

If you want to do it on the cheap until the mother ship arrives, I strongly suggest you buy an Advent 12" sub from Amazon (<$100). It is adequate and will give you reasonably deep thumping at a good price. Believe what Buckeye says about the XSub hum problem, as he was that sub's first supporter, here.

Finally, if you see this soon enough, here is an ebay STF-1 that will go for something less than $300. The Hsu is still my recommendation to you if you're going to spend up to $300.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5847142533&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&rd=1

Good cheer.

 

[Onabudgetguy]

Another budget choice

Here is another option that goes nice and low for cheap---
Sony SA-WX700.

yeah, yeah, laugh all you want, but twin 10's w/ 250 watts power does thump nicely in my TV room (18' x 13').

It was a replacement for my departed sa-w40 (5' to 6' of water will do that to electronics).

It doesn't have the audiophile name or cache, but give it a look (CC has had it for low 219 for a while 299 retail).

Gonna get on a soapbox to finish off, sorry for it, but everytime I see a person come on this forum (and others, too) asking for a recommendation for X dollars, it seems like there are 1 or 2 posts w/ good choices and about 5 or so say "for just Y dollars more you can get the Z speaker/amp/sub". I laughed when I saw the toyota/lexus comparison. The other subs I have seen recommended (many over the posters budget) may sound better than my sony, but I didn't have the option to spend that much. The poster may not either, so I think it does no good to say go spend just 100 more to get this one.

Listen to ones you can, look at your budget and stay within it. And have fun!

 

[mike c]

onabudgetguy,
was I the one who made the toyota/lexus comparison?

well, as a budget guy myself. I bought some low-end sub myself ... some waltermart type sub, a JBL, some sony's (they all sounded nice to me) even when listening to "better" subs by JBL and infinity, these sounded worlds better than my previous subs. but listen to the ones the people here are suggesting for just a "little" bit more money - and be orgasmically impressed. I for one regretted spending all that money on those cheap subs not knowing better that there ARE better subs out there (bass is not just bass), when I could have saved just a "little" bit more and bought the "better" sub.

have you listened to a velodyne? svs? hsu? axiom? take the time to listen and compare with the sony.

 

[Davidt1]

I am looking for a budget sub too. However, I am willing to spend a little more in order to get good sub. To the original poster, skip a few lunches to save more money for better sub if you have to. You will be well rewarded. Many good points have been made here. I especially agree with Gryphon about sub sizes. Don't discount a sub because it is small. I went to the Goodguy store closing sale about two months ago and listened to various subs by Monitor Audio, Energy, klipsch, and Velodyne. The smallest sub they had, the Monitor Audio with an 8'' cone, sounded the best to my ears. I came very close to buying it but, being a cheapskate that I am, I decided to wait. I have narrowed my next sub to the SVS PB10 and the Outlaw LMF-1. I originally wanted, like you, to spend $300 for a new sub, but by spending just a little more on a high-quality sub, I won't have to worry about upgrading again for a long time.

 

[Sheep]

I am astounded by all of the great responses plus another one I got in mail.

First of all I am not an audiophile and don't know if I will know booming, tight, accurate, or other such things, at least when I don't have two I can flip between and choose one over the other.

A speaker not in my list is the Dayton I have read a fair amount about but it seems ************ is out of them now so that is a moot point for a near term purchase.

One of the things I am concerned about is the STF-1 being rated at 32Hz whereas the E250P is rated at 25Hz. Isn't part of the reason for getting the sub is not just to move the lower frequencies over from the mains, but being able to go deeper than what I currently have. Going from 35Hz in my mains "down" to 32Hz doesn't seem like such a step compared to going down to 25Hz of the E250P or 22Hz of the S120PII. The JBL's also have more power (250 and 400 vs. 150).

And maybe it doesn't matter the way sound works, but doesn't a front firing sub give you more "feel" than a back or down firing model?

I hate to even bring it up but a local guy is selling the older PSW-D110 for about $100..no tax, no shipping, go and pick it up. The specs on it are closer to the STF-1. 10", 30Hz, and 150W. I know from what I have been told that the SFT-1 is WAY better...but would *I* know the difference? Would it be 3X better? Would I get 3X the pleasure?

Thanks very much for taking your holiday and trying to help me with the confusing decision.

Lew

This is where you need to really know the Manufacture. The Hsu sub is tuned to 32Hz. The EP250 is at its limits at 25Hz. Jaxvon and RJ both got output at 25Hz from the STF-1. The 150 is RMS watts. Its peak wattage is 600.

Actually, downfiring subs are known for transfering the most energy to the listener. But I find near field placement (behing my couch) to be the best for tactile response.

Hsu and SVS are totally different sub companys then the ones you are familiar with. Brutal honesty vs. Name Recognition.

SheepStar

 

[vividere]

Am really impressed by the additional feedback..

Seems the STF-1 is the cat's meow and what is almost universally suggested. They would be $315 with shipping but through their Amazon store they show out of stock. The cheap Daytons that were suggested are also out of stock, and even that cheap Advent suggested through Amazon is all sold out. Up from that would be the PB-10, but we keep moving up and away from my budget. Coming down from the STF-1 is the X-Sub but that has the humm?

That seems to bring us back to the BIC H100 or the JBL E250P some guru was suggesting in another string.

That used PSW-D110 is almost looking good right now

Lew

 

[vividere]

The E250P has a peak 550W, 250W RMS and the Cadence is rated at 350W RMS and 700 peak. . I couldn't tell you if the JBL, Cadence and the Hsu are rated the same way at the same distortion or frequency.

 

[Tomorrow]

Am really impressed by the additional feedback..

Seems the STF-1 is the cat's meow and what is almost universally suggested. They would be $315 with shipping but through their Amazon store they show out of stock. The cheap Daytons that were suggested are also out of stock, and even that cheap Advent suggested through Amazon is all sold out. Up from that would be the PB-10, but we keep moving up and away from my budget. Coming down from the STF-1 is the X-Sub but that has the humm?

That seems to bring us back to the BIC H100 or the JBL E250P some guru was suggesting in another string.

That used PSW-D110 is almost looking good right now

Lew

Here's my last shot, Lew.

If you want a sub in the class of the JBL, and at much less money, go for the Advent. It will return to stock, and perhaps at its much reduced price. It was going for ~$79 shipping included, for quite a while. It's not the best sub, but then you don't want to spend much. It's very good bang (thump) for your buck. You might want to pm AverageJoe, who has one, and get his opinion. BIC is the one sub among those that interest you that I haven't heard. Perhaps someone will chime in here about that one.

I wasn't aware you could buy Hsu at Amazon. You'd want to buy that STF-1directly from the Hsu website I provided you. (I think there is a sale...1/2 off shipping or some such, going on now.) And by the way, when it arrives, if you don't like it, send it back. They have a generous return policy...free 30 day audition.

 

[Onabudgetguy]

Mike C,

maybe it was you, I wasn't trying to call out any single person though, just an overall feeling I get when reading through this forum (and others).

I haven't had the chance to listen to many subwoofers. I have been over friends' houses w/ setups, but not too many. I get many compliments on my set-up, though many of the people aren't audio enthusiasts, they would be excited by HTIB's from big box stores.

For the time being I am happy w/ the Sony. It goes nice and deep and I don't think the wife would want it any lower. I had picture frame shaking during the "darla tapping on the fishtank" scene in Nemo, and she didn't completely appreciate that (I think she thought it was cool in the back of her mind though).

I agree w/ everyone that you should listen to your choices and then make a decision. I was using insurance money to replace (it was 5-6 inches, not feet of water--mold formed in the sa-w40's box and the front switch rotted out) my sub, so I had a pretty tight budget (couldn't spend more than the check--per wife), and of all the subs I looked at and looked up, the sony looked good to me. My experience with the w40 was good, I had done some work to it (polyfill).

Once we move into a house (townhouse now) and I have a little more cash in the bank, I will have a little more ability to look at the equipment I keep reading about in here. Until then I will enjoy the give and take in the threads and let people know that not all budget equipment sucks.

Go 'Skins

 

[xboxweasel]

"for just Y dollars more you can get the Z speaker/amp/sub" .... but I didn't have the option to spend that much. The poster may not either, so I think it does no good to say go spend just 100 more to get this one.

Equipment like this can last a very long time. If you can't afford something nice now then perhaps waiting is better. Unless you want to spend your money twice. It is a difficult situation.

When asking for an opinion you are going to get answers above and below what you were seeking. However, the finial choice is your. And a listening test, along with your spending limit should always be your final choice.

For me, within 6 months I replaced my entire HT with little window shopping / system comparisons. Actually it was only one listening session I went to. I bought it because I liked it and I could afford. To do too much research will drive you nuts.

You can always buy your stuff at the box stores. That way you can bring it back if it's really that bad. They take everything back. Actually, a lot of the higher end shops will take stuf back too, but only for exchange (no money back). So, you are never stuck with anything you originally choose.

 

[vividere]

Turns out P...E.... is getting in the two budget subs...

Dayton SUB-120 (12", 150W, 25-180Hz, front firing) $120 shipped

Advent ASW1200 (12", 100W, 33-150Hz, downward firing) $100 shipped

The Advent was $80 shipped for awhile on Amazon and was suggested in this message thread. Several people in other message threads suggested the Dayton as the best cheap sub.

The Dayton specs are a lot superior to the Advent so it seems based on spec.s alone the $20 extra for the Dayton is a better deal.

A local guy is selling a brand new in the box SVS PB-10 for $400 even..wish I had that kind of $$$ to spend right now. I just don't think my ears will hear 4X the quality out of the PB-10 even if I could afford it.

Isn't downward firing better for most single sub applications whereas front firing need to be paired up?

Thanks again,

Lew

 

[Sheep]

I think you will hear 4 times better bass with the PB-10.

Down firing is know for transfering the energy better then front firing. This is only really an issue with HT. Music is ment to have the bass audible.

BTW, the PB-10 will shake you.

SheepStar

 

[vividere]

As an aside, I go from talk radio to HT, no music....

Watching a movie before going to bed is my one pleasure...

 

[johsti]

Look into a B-stock PB10. It will still be a little bit out of your budget, but so worth it. A good sub makes a HUGE difference with HT. I've had the dayton, and a modded sony 12". I don't know why I wasted my money on the budget subs when I finally got my SVS. Night and day difference.

 

[Ron Temple]

Of the $250 subs, I'd go Cadence or Acoustech. I had 2 XSubs, they are very solid performers and can be tweaked for maximum sound quality. It won't go below 25hz, but it won't distort either. It's a quality product at this price point. Properly configured, it's not boomy and very musical. I compared it with a PB10. The won't go as low or deliver the quantity or quality of bass, but subjectively, I'd say you'll get 80%. There is a hum in the amps of the last rev. It is noticeable when the system is idle, not during playback. This may have been fixed. I gave my sons these subs for Xmas and they are thrilled.

I've heard similar things about the H100 and it may go one or 2 hz lower. Brian, IIRC, advised cutting it low to avoid boominess. You should PM him.

The E250 sounds boomy to me.

The Hsu is an over-achiever and will give the best SQ and might get you 25hz (usable) as others claim.

If you can find a used PB10 for ~$300, don't look back. The 20% difference vs the XSub is pure WOW factor, better definition and much better extention. The bottom 10hz from 28-18 make movies 50% more enjoyable IMO.

 

[vividere]

Hi Ron,

I can't find a used PB-10 for $300 but I can find a local new one for $400.

In the meantime, I can get a great deal on a H100..... I read somewhere else here about the association between Dr. Hsu and Accoustech and I just found this on another forum:

"Well, I will gladly give my .02 on the BIC H-100 sub. Two thumbs up! I have Klipsch speakers which I am more than happy with, and actually just upgraded from the Synergy series to Reference speakers. I HAD a KSW-12 Klipsch sub, and was never really happy with its performance for either music or HT. Far too boomy and muddy, no matter where it was placed or how the system was tweaked. I did a little research on the BIC H-100 sub after reading specs and thinking "this is too good to be true". I emailed Jeff @ BIC, and he was quick to respond to my inquiry on the sub. He confirmed what I had been told; Dr. Hsu was the one who designed the H-100. In fact, if you look at the HSU Research STF-1 the amp is a near twin to the BIC's. 150w RMS and 500w peak with a BASH hybrid style amp. I ended up selling the KSW-12 on eBay, and the very same day I was loading it up to take to UPS the new sub arrived. I let it warm up in the house, hooked it up, and let 'er rip! I was absolutely BLOWN AWAY with the performance of it. Goodbye muddy, booming bass and hello deep, driving, clean bass response! I have not even dinked that much with placement yet; just put it in the exact same location as the Klipsch sub was in. The best part? The $199 + shipping price I paid! I got $250 + shipping for the old one, and ended up with a superior sub and $50 in my pocket."

 

[Ron Temple]

I may get a chance to hear an H100 later this month. No doubt it's a great sub. If that's your budget go for it and don't look back.

 

[vividere]

To end this string I thought I would announce that I purchased a PB-10 yesterday that a local guy had just bought in December but had already upgraded to an Earthquake. Rather than return it to SVS he sold it to me for $400, he save a few bucks and I saved a few bucks and I got it right away.

It was more than I wanted to spend but based on what everyone says it should do the job for me.

Thanks to everyone for all their help.

Lew

 

[Ron Temple]

You won't regret it and I wonder if the Earthquake is really an upgrade. Have fun.

 

[westcott]

To end this string I thought I would announce that I purchased a PB-10

It was more than I wanted to spend but based on what everyone says it should do the job for me.

Lew

Let us know how it sounds after you have it dialed in and in its final resting place. Pictures would be great too!!!