Subwoofer application musical v.s. home theater

DannyA

DannyA

Audioholic
<font color='#000000'>A little information and education please. *I take it that there is a difference in the intergration of a subwoofer into a system dependent upon a musical or home theater application.
Please give examples of both in the $200 range.</font>
Smoothsound,

Can you give us more information on your current system and room dimensions?

The real dilemma here is the $200 price range unless your current system is a small, compact out of box type system. If you have a higher end system I would try and hang tough for a little bit and save up a few more dollars. At the $500 - $800 range you can get something that will satisfy the musical and home theater needs. I know this isn't very helpful as far as finding the right sub but I think you would be pretty disappointed with a low end sub attached to a higher end system.
 
YourDhass

YourDhass

Audioholic Intern
21 replies to this thread and only 3 of them actually address the original question. I wish I could contribute to answering the question but im pretty much a newb. just wanted to bring us back to answering "subwoofer application to HT versus music".... I wanna know too!
 
N

Nestor

Senior Audioholic
21 replies to this thread and only 3 of them actually address the original question. I wish I could contribute to answering the question but im pretty much a newb. just wanted to bring us back to answering "subwoofer application to HT versus music".... I wanna know too!
An accurate sub will faithfully reproduce whatever is thrown at it, HT or music.
 
modernprimitive

modernprimitive

Enthusiast
the major difference between music playback and home theater is frequency range. my understand is that rock and metal tracks will not drop much lower than 35 hertz, given that most adults lose the ability to hear low tones. so most of us feel those frequencies instead of hearing them. and the "boomy" bass that they use in a lot of rap music is usually around 60hz. where as a home theater will have digital sound effects that in some cases drop to as low as 16hz. i'm sure some may contain lower, but i don't know for sure. so in order to get the full movie theater effect, you need a system that is capable of reproducing the lows that you can feel in the theater. and if you buy or build a sub that can run from 20-60hz or even 80hz, then you'll have one that can drop low enough for almost every movie soundtrack, plus playback music as well. my sub serves dual purpose without any issues. but since i'm craving more spl, i plan to build two of the tht cabinets designed by bill fitzmaurice. they are enormous, but have amazing output.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
21 replies to this thread and only 3 of them actually address the original question. I wish I could contribute to answering the question but im pretty much a newb. just wanted to bring us back to answering "subwoofer application to HT versus music".... I wanna know too!

I have demo'd a lot of subs, and not all of them would I consider "music worthy", some subs are simply more musical than others, and some subs have the earth shaking output that is great for HT, the closest I have heard that can do both is the HSU ULS15 it has a good amount of output and is super musical {fast, clean, and clear}. For music you normally dont need a ton of power and output, you just want it fast and clean {no mechanical / port sounds]/ Fast enough for music, for example steppenwolfs born to be wild and the eagles already gone are both approaching 150 bpm and will show you the difference if you listen closely between a fast sub and a lazy sub, step it up to faster stuff like sg's affirmation or most any tekno or speedcore {that stuff can get to 500bpm with tons of bass notes thrown in there, I some times listen to that when doing cardio} and it can make a really nice subwoofer sound terrible.

But anyway, with music you just want a simple small {it was thought before, that a larger sub could not be musical, but I have heard 18" subs that effortlessly smash music} sealed sub, the reason I like to stay around 12" is you dont need a ton of power since you dont want to be way off balance with your mains, if you have 300w mains with 88db sens, a single svs sb12 will be more than enough to keep up, and with music the more subs the better {with ht this applies too, but it is more noticeable with music} dual subs in a 2.2 system blend perfectly when done rite..

I found that a dual sb12 from svs is about the best "value" when building a music system at $950 I don't know another sub or set that will outperform that pair, I have a set of sb12's {a little over kill, but sounds great with the setup I have them in, and I only upgraded to them for the finish options.. Them will easily fill a 400sq ft room with musical bass, BUT for HT a single vtf2 from HSU will do a better job {for output and overall "movie" feel...}

So while there are subs out there that will reproduce music and HT, I prefer to have a separate system for each, a good balance is the vtf2 which is awesome for HT and sounds really good when plugged up for music...
 
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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
{that stuff can get to 500bpm with tons of bass notes thrown in there, I some times listen to that when doing cardio} and it can make a really nice subwoofer sound terrible.

But anyway, music you just want a simple small sealed sub, you dont need a ton of power since you dont want to be way off balance with your mains if you have 300w mains with 88db sens, a svs sb12 will be more than enough to keep up, and with music the more subs the better {with ht this applies too, but it is more noticable with music} dual subs in a 2.2 system blend perfectly when done rite..

Lol give me a break, 500 bpm sounds like a blur, and no, the subwoofer doesn't make a difference there. That is definitely not workout music. You can't go much past 200 bpm at 4/4s without music sounding starting to sound like gibberish. And with music you will want more than just a small sealed sub unless you only listen to smooth jazz. My subs get more of a workout with music than they ever do with movies. Thermal compression will affect music playback more than movie playback anyway, so you still want a beefy sub.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
Lol give me a break, 500 bpm sounds like a blur, and no, the subwoofer doesn't make a difference there. That is definitely not workout music. You can't go much past 200 bpm at 4/4s without music sounding starting to sound like gibberish. And with music you will want more than just a small sealed sub unless you only listen to smooth jazz. My subs get more of a workout with music than they ever do with movies. Thermal compression will affect music playback more than movie playback anyway, so you still want a beefy sub.
I obviously don't listen to 500bpm music while working out {and play some of that stuff, it makes a difference, not every beat is a bass beat, and big slow subs are what makes it sound like a blur, get the rite sub, no more blur, obviously 500bpm is extreme} but I will throw on some fast club/tekno and I you can have all the "breaks" you want when playing songs with a lot of punchy fast bass beats, the sub makes a huge difference, I have listened to A LOT of subs, and have a dozen of them set up in systems {and another 5 or 6 in storage} so I have compared them, I demo'd the sb12, sb1000, and sb13 ultra all together and abc d'ed them with the uls15 {and my wd300's}, they all made different sound, they all had strong points and soft points but when compared to my vtf2's and pb12+ they were more "musical"..

And Shady, Im not saying a small 8" sub, I have dual 12's in all 3 of my 2.2 systems {wharfedale jade 5's with wd300's, evo2-40's with wd300s', and the sb12 nsd's with csb1's} and in all 3 of them systems the subs can over power the mains with ease the jades and the csb1's have 2-200w monos per set, and the evo-40s have an xpa2 powering the mains and with out a doubt I can turn the subs well past the mains....

As far as a "workout" for music vs HT, I don't see that at all, my vtf2's smash along throughout a a 2 hour movie {depending on the material obviously} and when they do, they shake the house, my music systems play loud but its different, no long 40 second rumbles with the limit light flashing away, just smooth punch notes....

So I have to disagree, I want more power for HT than music, I want more clarity for music than movies, but we all have our preferences, Im not here to argue my point, Im just trying to state it, its my opinion and its great if you have a different one, but I have listened to MANY subs {as most of you know its a hobby of mine to go around listening to systems {actually going to a wedding in NJ this weekend and mapped out a couple high end shoppes I want to check out on the way}... But don't twist what I said to sound like I am recomending a 60w 8" sub for music, I have dual 400watts paired with a set of bookshelfs. I have heard HT systems with dual 1300w subs that used almost all of that power without taking apart the rest of the material, where if you pushed 2600 watts of bass with a set of stereo speakers {depending on eff.} you would need to have stadium speakers to keep up.... I like my music a little hot on the sub side but not past unnatural .... and 500bpm isn't a blur, I like all kinds of music {except country/rap mixes, that makes me want to punch a baby} heres some vids, I like this one World Record: World's Fastest Guitar Player (600 BPM) - YouTube while this is not my "cup of tea" people listen to it, I have a friend with a club that blasts this stuff until 2 am and his doors and bars pull 6 figures a weekend, so someone likes it Deterrent Man - Insomnia Speedcore (500BPM) - YouTube this is what I listen to when doing serious cardio Daft Punk - Robot Rock - YouTube
 
modernprimitive

modernprimitive

Enthusiast
i'm quite happy with my setup, despite being recently told that it's a big pile of s***. i listen to a few genres of music, but my preference if for loud fast metal. bands like lamb of god, decapitated, bury your dead, etc. fast, deep double bass. i've seen these guys live, and for what i've got in my system, i think mine does just fine at giving me that live feel for my room size. 12" mains and 15" sub do a nice job with that fast paced deep bass.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
all that matters is that you like it, honestly nothing else matters. a friend of mine has some high end klipsch towers {not heritage series}with a pair of martin subs and he says my system is way to laid back for him and says my highs are lazy and too relaxed... where I listen to his system and the lows are terrible {he doesn't cross his towers so you have the towers and subs making the same sounds} the highs are bright and to me sound static-y {I swear he has a hurt tweeter} and I honestly HATE listening to his system, it is absolutely terrible and I of course let him know that, lol {but only after he commented on my system}... the truth of the matter is though, that it don't matter what I think, sure my system is perfect :D but it doesnt matter what I think about your system, just you....

I have heard some awesome cerwin vega speakers, they have some with the side mounted subs, and for loud the clean 215's are hard to beat....
 
modernprimitive

modernprimitive

Enthusiast
i think one of the problems i'm running into, is that some of the people that have commented on my system have been listening to some of the newer made in china home speakers put out under the cerwin vega name. i mean, i understand that i don't have crazy expensive high end speaker arrays, but like you said, i'm the one who has to listen to them, and pay for them. i don't have the budgets that some others do. i'm a single parent living in a city that is slowly ridding itself of machine shops. i can't make enough off of the shop i own, due to the economy around here. so i have a full time job at another machine shop doing machine work that i never intended to do. i do want more bass though, so i'll probably end up building two of the tht cabinets at some point. it will save me a ton of money compared to comparable commercially available subs. the good thins is that my kid is all for it. i swear he's just as bad as i am about wanting loud metal and deep bass. :)
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
its all about enjoying music, actually has very little to do with the gear... I have heard some $100 headphones that sound amazing, so cost has very little to do with it once you understand your ears are the only ones that matter.... Even when it comes to sq, I admit that takes a back seat to aesthetics, after all my wife lives with me soooo ugly speakers are out of the question for me, I would love to have a set of phil 3's but my wife seen them and said "nope".. so that is that is that...
 
zhimbo

zhimbo

Audioholic General
Cerwin Vega is sometimes dismissed as just frat party speakers that play loud...and sometimes praised as great frat party speakers that play really loud! The right tool, for the right job!
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
Cerwin Vega is sometimes dismissed as just frat party speakers that play loud...and sometimes praised as great frat party speakers that play really loud! The right tool, for the right job!
I had a chance to hear the cmx212 speakers and I can tell you first hand they are not bad, I like bass heavy music and they are on a short list of speakers that satisfy me with out a subwoofer in the loop {although technically they have 4 subwoofers, lol}.... but expensive

the other thing you notice rite away about the cmx212 is they are large and loud, like really loud, but stable and clean, with really nice highs...
Cerwin Vega CMX-212 REVIEW - YouTube
 

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