Subwoofer advice: closed or ported?

[davidscott]

I recently added an Elac 1225 12-inch sub to my Infinity P353 tower speaker setup. Had to dial the volume way down and set the sub to the lowest crossover setting to get rid of the boominess. That said it seems to work pretty well now.

 

[lovinthehd]

I recently added an Elac 1225 12-inch sub to my Infinity P353 tower speaker setup. Had to dial the volume way down and set the sub to the lowest crossover setting to get rid of the boominess. That said it seems to work pretty well now.

So is that a non-recommendation for this particular sub? It's a one note wonder or something?

 

[3db]

@sakete, I have two Rythmik subs, an 8 year or older LV-12R and a new LV-12F, both ported with servo. Both are 12" ported subs, one ported in the back, the other ported in the front with more control settings. They serve both HT and 2 channel music roles excelling in both capacities. Unlike some posters like to think, having servo is not another point of failure. If it were a point of failure , Rythmik would have changed their design eons ago.

 

[DIBstangguy]

Just upgraded to a 2 sub system in my 12.5x 15.5 media room. I love it. My first sub I ran forever was a ported 10" sub. It did a very good job for 20 years. Shortly after building the media room I replaced it. After several different test runs on subs, I decided this time to go wit ha sealed design. I found compared to the ported units I had demo'd in home, that the sealed subs were tighter and more to my liking. I'm not a loud sub junkie. I want it to hit, feel it, and then get on to the rest of the movie. It's about what you like. Further like many I stay in the 600-800 per unit price range which puts me usually in the entry level lines of brands.

Last - a word of advise from personal experience. I originally settled on the KEF KUBE series subs to make the switch to after the Velodyne finally gave up the ghost. I started with just the one. Loved it initially. About 13 months in, it developed a rattle internally. I sent it in for repair under warranty, and trusting their quality bought a second (wanted to go 5.2.4 vice 5.1.4) KUBE while waiting on the repair. The new KEF unit failed out of the box with a similar rattle issue. KEF gave me all kinds of grief about the warranty. They accused me of over driving the unit. So I returned the second unit and tried a different brand XXX on demo (ended up buying 2). Brought it home and plugged it in. Problem went away. No issue. All in all, after having to 'go to the mats' with KEF corporate, I finally got the original unit back repaired in just under 4 months time. Now I have a KEF KUBE I would only use for an ottoman. I think I will be donating it to St. Vincent's or Good Will. KEF left me with a very poor opinion of them after the sale based on my direct experience with them at the corporate level. THis had nothing to do with the local distributor. They did their job and went to bat for me. KEF became the issue on this.

 

[Verdinut]

Just upgraded to a 2 sub system in my 12.5x 15.5 media room. I love it. My first sub I ran forever was a ported 10" sub. It did a very good job for 20 years. Shortly after building the media room I replaced it. After several different test runs on subs, I decided this time to go wit ha sealed design. I found compared to the ported units I had demo'd in home, that the sealed subs were tighter and more to my liking. I'm not a loud sub junkie. I want it to hit, feel it, and then get on to the rest of the movie. It's about what you like. Further like many I stay in the 600-800 per unit price range which puts me usually in the entry level lines of brands.

Last - a word of advise from personal experience. I originally settled on the KEF KUBE series subs to make the switch to after the Velodyne finally gave up the ghost. I started with just the one. Loved it initially. About 13 months in, it developed a rattle internally. I sent it in for repair under warranty, and trusting their quality bought a second (wanted to go 5.2.4 vice 5.1.4) KUBE while waiting on the repair. The new KEF unit failed out of the box with a similar rattle issue. KEF gave me all kinds of grief about the warranty. They accused me of over driving the unit. So I returned the second unit and tried a different brand XXX on demo (ended up buying 2). Brought it home and plugged it in. Problem went away. No issue. All in all, after having to 'go to the mats' with KEF corporate, I finally got the original unit back repaired in just under 4 months time. Now I have a KEF KUBE I would only use for an ottoman. I think I will be donating it to St. Vincent's or Good Will. KEF left me with a very poor opinion of them after the sale based on my direct experience with them at the corporate level. THis had nothing to do with the local distributor. They did their job and went to bat for me. KEF became the issue on this.

A well designed ported sub is as tight as any sealed one. I have been building speakers for more than 50 years. I installed Dayton RSS390-4A subs in the three front cabinets which I had built in 2001.

If you have a well built driver and you install it in a properly designed and well braced cabinet, of adequate size and tuned according to its Thiele/Small parameters, the bass is tight as in my cabinets. The saying about sealed subs being tighter is simply generalization, false info on the web or marketing bullshit.

 

[lovinthehd]

To me it's mostly about box size, if you need small sealed can be a good way to go. With sufficient number of sealed subs and sufficient amps perhaps shallower rolloff can have an extension advantage somewhat in some rooms....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Something else to consider is that the older 10” was 20 years old. Even though it was a Velodyne, a fairly competent subwoofer builder, I have no doubt it wouldn’t be as controlled or linear as an RSL 10” or a pb1000 etc. I agree that the sealed is tighter is a myth, especially today. I think that mostly comes down to integration. That can be trickier when a particular ported sub has more natural output below 35hz than a comparable sealed one.

 

[davidscott]

So is that a non-recommendation for this particular sub? It's a one note wonder or something?

Not at all. I just prefer the bass not to overwhelm the main speakers.

 

[DIBstangguy]

A well designed ported sub is as tight as any sealed one. I have been building speakers for more than 50 years. I installed Dayton RSS390-4A subs in the three front cabinets which I had built in 2001.

If you have a well built driver and you install it in a properly designed and well braced cabinet, of adequate size and tuned according to its Thiele/Small parameters, the bass is tight as in my cabinets. The saying about sealed subs being tighter is simply generalization, false info on the web or marketing bullshit.

Read that previously written statement in this thread once already. Appreciate your opinion and your years of experience and expertise. I have an opinion as well. In my application my ported Velodyne (also 20 years old) was awesome. I loved it. I hated to get rid of it, but the amp plate bit the dust. I was hoping I could recap it myself and keep it going but it was past that. And I have little interest in custom building my own cabinet nor your '50 years' of expertise in design to do so nor the interest at this point in my silver years to want to learn.

Sooooooooooooooo...

I tried a Paradigm ported SW (Defiance V10) to replace my faithful Velodyne that had similar specs, yet apparent improvements in porting and design over 20 year old tech. The result in my application was that it was boomy regardless of how I attempted to set it up. I fussed with it for weeks in different locations and so forth. I was initially opposed to sealed because of my success with the ported Velodyne. But after test driving sealed options after being given the chance to do so at no cost, I found I in fact liked sealed better as they worked very well in my room with little hastle. Sealed were much less directional for no better term to my ears surprisingly. Sealed provided a more even and repeatable output across the bass range to my ear. To my ear and in my room's application sealed sounded 'tighter' regardless of why...even if it is only in my head. With the Paradigm Defiance V10 I was always messing with the stupid bluetooth app trying to dial it in for every movie I put in. It was very very directional and boomy no matter where it was placed in the room. It was like listening to a band pass box in a mini truck. Maybe it was because it was a bottom firing unit port configuration compared to the old reliable Velodyne which again I loved and worked awesome and never had to be touched. Maybe it was just a poor overall design though I have always favored Paradigm products and still do. But it just did not work. So I changed direction. With the sealed unit, in my application, I was able to practically drop it in place, run the correction and go with it just as my old trustworthy ported Velodyne was. Maybe I should have considered another option in ported before going sealed. Maybe there were better options out there had I wished to throw 1000's of dollars at trying different subs and returning one after the other. But in the end sealed works, I love it, others love it and that's all that matters to me. Others will differ in opinion. I am okay with that. As Bob Ross would say, "It's your world". Best of luck OP

 

[lovinthehd]

Read that previously writted statement already. Appreciate your opinion and your years of experience and expertise. I have an opinion as well. In my application my ported Velodyne (also 20 years old) was awesome. I loved it. I hated to get rid of it, but the amp plate bit the dust. I was hoping I coud recap it and keep it going but it was past that. You can't put the smoke back into electronic components once it gets out. I tried a Paradigm ported SW to replace it with similar specs and updated improvements in porting and design so I thought. The result in my application was that it was boomy regardless of how I attempted to set it up. I fussed with it for weeks in different locations and so forth. I was opposed to sealed because of my success with the Velodyne. But after test driving sealed options after being given the chance to do so at no cost, I found I liked them better. They worked well in my room. They provided a more even output across the range from 20-120hz. To me they were tighter regardless of why...even if it is only in my head. With the Paradigm Defiance V10 I was always messing with the stupid app trying to dial it in for every movie I put in and it was very very directional no matter where it was placed in the room. Maybe it was because it was a bottom firing unit port configuration compared to the old reliable Velodyne which again I loved and worked awesome and never had to be touched. But with the sealed unit in my application I was able to drop it into place, run the correction and go with it just as old trust worthy ported Velodyne was. Maybe it was the initial ported choice in teh V10 I tried that turned me off and I should have considered another option in ported before going sealed. But in the end it works, I like it, others love it and that all that matters in the end.

The blue smoke was servo related when you tried to replace the Velodyne amp?

 

[Kingnoob]

Read that previously written statement in this thread once already. Appreciate your opinion and your years of experience and expertise. I have an opinion as well. In my application my ported Velodyne (also 20 years old) was awesome. I loved it. I hated to get rid of it, but the amp plate bit the dust. I was hoping I could recap it myself and keep it going but it was past that. And I have little interest in custom building my own cabinet nor your '50 years' of expertise in design to do so nor the interest at this point in my silver years to want to learn.

Sooooooooooooooo...

I tried a Paradigm ported SW (Defiance V10) to replace my faithful Velodyne that had similar specs, yet apparent improvements in porting and design over 20 year old tech. The result in my application was that it was boomy regardless of how I attempted to set it up. I fussed with it for weeks in different locations and so forth. I was initially opposed to sealed because of my success with the ported Velodyne. But after test driving sealed options after being given the chance to do so at no cost, I found I in fact liked sealed better as they worked very well in my room with little hastle. Sealed were much less directional for no better term to my ears surprisingly. Sealed provided a more even and repeatable output across the bass range to my ear. To my ear and in my room's application sealed sounded 'tighter' regardless of why...even if it is only in my head. With the Paradigm Defiance V10 I was always messing with the stupid bluetooth app trying to dial it in for every movie I put in. It was very very directional and boomy no matter where it was placed in the room. It was like listening to a band pass box in a mini truck. Maybe it was because it was a bottom firing unit port configuration compared to the old reliable Velodyne which again I loved and worked awesome and never had to be touched. Maybe it was just a poor overall design though I have always favored Paradigm products and still do. But it just did not work. So I changed direction. With the sealed unit, in my application, I was able to practically drop it in place, run the correction and go with it just as my old trustworthy ported Velodyne was. Maybe I should have considered another option in ported before going sealed. Maybe there were better options out there had I wished to throw 1000's of dollars at trying different subs and returning one after the other. But in the end sealed works, I love it, others love it and that's all that matters to me. Others will differ in opinion. I am okay with that. As Bob Ross would say, "It's your world". Best of luck OP

Ported subs can be tricker to place in the right spot . Well, I can’t believe your sub lasted 20 years!!! I had a Dayton plate amp die before warranty ran out lucky. Some amplifiers just don’t last.