Subs....Worth another build or purchase?

[Clownaphobia]

Hey guys,
A few years ago I built my first set of subwoofers.
With the help of some awesome members here and at AVS, I did a dual alpine type r 12” build. I run them off of an Ep2500. And they seem to do pretty well. I actually have only had them up and running for a few months..due to some life changes. I have not measured them since I recently moved from my previous home where I had a dedicated theater room, to a very open floor plan in my new house. These are my first sealed subs, as before I always had ported. They definitely aren’t able to pressurize the room like my previous setup.
I find myself constantly either looking at doing another build or buying. Usually a dual Dayton Um-15 flat pack build since I have an amp or also find myself looking quite a bit at the SVS Sb-3000’s and JL F112’s. If I put in the time/and or money by doing duals of any (as I am a big believer in duals)...would there be a justifiable output difference? My gut tells me to just go ahead and do a couple Um-18’s and then I’d know I have plenty of output. Sorry if it’s a dumb question, I know sound and something being “worthwhile” are very subjective terms.

 

[lovinthehd]

Are you thinking of sticking with sealed boxes only? Why not build something big and ported like maybe a full Marty? Do you run EQ on your Alpines?

 

[Clownaphobia]

This will all be setup in my living room. I don’t have the freedom like when I had my theater room.
The reason I listed the others is that I own a paint business so I can do a piano black on the Dayton’s or get the SVS or Jl’s in a gloss black finish. Which is what I did on the Alpine build. So that they match my towers. The only eq I have is applied about 6db (around 20 hz) thru Audyssey.

 

[lovinthehd]

UM-18 in a sealed cab shouldn't be too WAF unfriendly?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

What are the actual dimensions? For me, the trade off in size would justify the performance of ported.

 

[Clownaphobia]

i can get dimensions shortly when I get home. I’m thinking roughly that the main area is 25x30? But is open to the kitchen and dining which is probably about the same size. Although I know exact measurements are probably needed. I also still have a couple hsu stf-2 10’s leftover in the closet but didn’t think trying to combine them would be beneficial. Dual sealed um-18’s should give me enough output...or I assume?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

i can get dimensions shortly when I get home. I’m thinking roughly that the main area is 25x30? But is open to the kitchen and dining which is probably about the same size. Although I know exact measurements are probably needed. I also still have a couple hsu stf-2 10’s leftover in the closet but didn’t think trying to combine them would be beneficial. Dual sealed um-18’s should give me enough output...or I assume?

Uummm...imo that’s too much space for a pair of sealed 18’s but it kinda depends on how you intend to use them. Pretty sure @lovinthehd has experience with those. I’ll defer to him.

Also, the leftover 10’s might help in a near field installation, but I feel like your hunch is correct and to leave them out.

 

[lovinthehd]

Uummm...imo that’s too much space for a pair of sealed 18’s but it kinda depends on how you intend to use them. Pretty sure @lovinthehd has experience with those. I’ll defer to him.

Also, the leftover 10’s might help in a near field installation, but I feel like your hunch is correct and to leave them out.

Big space but WAF is WAF 6000 cuft is close to what I have and I use three sealed 18s plus a DO 15 until I get my lazy butt down to the store for some more ply to build my DO 18.....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I hate waf but I do have some here, and do understand.
Do you feel a pair of sealed 18’s would work there? It’s 50x60 between the kitchen and LR. Not sure about foyer or hallways etc.

 

[Clownaphobia]

So measurements are 23 1/2 x 19 1/2 main living room, open to 23 1/2 x 16 1/2. With a couple small hallways I didn’t include. Hardwood over concrete slab in living, brick floor in kitchen. So definitely not a great environment for pressurizing or shaking a floor. I’ve also considered another pair of sealed 12’s on back wall. There is a small wall that acts as a pantry. Could 4 12’s do the trick? Waf is not bad...she’s very laid back. But she already makes comments about how it sounds like a concert is going on in the living room. Anddd we’ve only been married five months, so I don’t wanna push it

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

So measurements are 23 1/2 x 19 1/2 main living room, open to 23 1/2 x 16 1/2. With a couple small hallways I didn’t include. Hardwood over concrete slab in living, brick floor in kitchen. So definitely not a great environment for pressurizing or shaking a floor. I’ve also considered another pair of sealed 12’s on back wall. There is a small wall that acts as a pantry. Could 4 12’s do the trick? Waf is not bad...she’s very laid back. But she already makes comments about how it sounds like a concert is going on in the living room. Anddd we’ve only been married five months, so I don’t wanna push it

Only 5mo? That’s when you hit the waf hard! While you still can! Lol
Waf only hardens over time, making our advances less and less affective. Once waf gets roots...
And, it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

 

[lovinthehd]

It's volume, not necessarily square footage, sounds like roughly 7000 cuft assuming 8 ft ceilings...big space. I'd rethink the ported (maybe a design that doubles as furniture or is it just the audio she's objecting to?). Two might work fine with nearfield placement, hard to know in advance. I tried two in mine at first, then three but was happier with four....no waf to contend with at all, tho....went sealed for ease of build and cab size to an extent, figured with enough of them it'd work

 

[Clownaphobia]

It's volume, not necessarily square footage, sounds like roughly 7000 cuft assuming 8 ft ceilings...big space. I'd rethink the ported (maybe a design that doubles as furniture or is it just the audio she's objecting to?). Two might work fine with nearfield placement, hard to know in advance. I tried two in mine at first, then three but was happier with four....no waf to contend with at all, tho....went sealed for ease of build and cab size to an extent, figured with enough of them it'd work

Thanks a lot guys for the help! It’s actually 10’ ceilings...which makes it worse. I Honestly didn’t realize how much space I was trying to deal with. I guess I will just have to change my expectations. Maybe I’ll be one of those guys who tells everyone that I’m more focused on clarity of the overall system rather than output new self proclaimed audiophile! That, or man up and build about 4 ported 18’s!

 

[Alex2507]

build about 4 ported 18’s!

And that's where my argument against DIY dies. Whatever the advantages of DIY are, now it's times four and the advantages are considerable even without the multiplier.

we’ve only been married five months

Aside from audio, many of us are experts on women as well. Good luck with yours.

 

[Clownaphobia]

Okay, after some thought...there are a couple other options available. Option 1) there is a buffet type table that it right behind the couch...it fits in between two columns when you first walk in the door. I could possibly turn the bottom half of it into a sub..it could easily be hidden. It can fire directly into the couch. And there is room for another on the back wall next to my bar. Both would most likely be 12’s as there’s not a ton of room to deal with. The reason I’m liking this approach is that when helping design these, Josh Ricci said he really liked the idea of having several small sealed boxes spread around the room. My issue with this...can I do this off of one EP2500? Or buy another ep2500...or buy a bigger amp?
Option 2) I have a friend that owns a high end Home AV company. I actually work for the company on the side and get my equipment at cost. Could a pair of Klipsh R-115’s give me much stronger output? The other brands we carry, I feel wouldn’t give me the output to justify the price difference (even at cost). The Reference line is the most cost friendly option we have.
Also...this is wife #2...and she’s cool as hell...but I don’t want to give her a reason to change

 

[lovinthehd]

Whether your subs can run off the single amp would depend on sub driver/wiring details....it's possible, but....

Klipsch R-115SW? Or SW-115? The R-115SW I believe is the better sub and has reviewed/measured fairly well. Does she like copper colored cones?

 

[Clownaphobia]

Sorry, definitely the R-115SW. We have set them up a couple times and I was impressed by their output in other rooms. Just didn’t know how a pair would do in my situation. I guess I could always just grab a pair and try. What sucks is I had a full Reference system which I JUST recently changed out, so they would have matched perfectly, copper cones were everywhere....Now they will look out of place LOL. I’m usually the keep the grille off kind of guy, but won’t be able to do that with the copper Subwoofer cones...but if they give me what I want I may just live with it.

 

[lovinthehd]

It's the best sub Klipsch currently offers, and with significant discount might be a good way to go....

 

[annunaki]

Before you get too far down any one path, have you tested the room to see where the optimal locations are in the room? The sub crawl test, etc?

Do any of those locations match up with what is visually acceptable in your room? If they don’t, could you build a sub that could act as a piece of furniture in that place and be visually acceptable?

Next, a layout of the room would help for us all to understand your situation a little better. Let’s get a good handle on what your looking at with layout and sizing before we start recommending equipment options.

Based upon the volume you have, multiple vented >=15” seems the route to go but knowing the layout will help with making the right choice.

Also, what are the end goals you are after? Even bass response? Room pressure? 15hz-80hz response? Musicality?

 

[Clownaphobia]

Before you get too far down any one path, have you tested the room to see where the optimal locations are in the room? The sub crawl test, etc?

Do any of those locations match up with what is visually acceptable in your room? If they don’t, could you build a sub that could act as a piece of furniture in that place and be visually acceptable?

Next, a layout of the room would help for us all to understand your situation a little better. Let’s get a good handle on what your looking at with layout and sizing before we start recommending equipment options.

Based upon the volume you have, multiple vented >=15” seems the route to go but knowing the layout will help with making the right choice.

Also, what are the end goals you are after? Even bass response? Room pressure? 15hz-80hz response? Musicality?

I haven’t...I am very limited for placement in this particular situation. I will try and take pictures today.
The front wall at 1/4 positions is where they currently are. There aren’t any corner positions that are suitable. And side walls aren’t really an option either. There is a small partial wall in the back (about 7 feet) that does divide the living from kitchen. On the kitchen side it’s a pantry, On the living side it’s where I have a bar setup. I thought of flanking the bar with two more subs. Or putting one there and another behind the couch...there is a buffet table right behind the couch that could hide a sub or be built into a sub. But that location won’t have boundary gain since it’s about 5 feet minimum from any wall. Sorry I know that I need pictures! The sound as is, is really acceptable..the front towers put off quite a bit of decent bass on their own. Very musical and tight and actually have decent bass. Revel F206’s.
Andddd...the subs that I built came out so nice and match the gloss black so well on my Revels, that I would hate to start all over. That’s why I keep going back with the idea of just making two more. What stinks is, it’s not that easy to get that particular sub anymore. So I would need to see if the newer version type r or even a Dayton Umax would be close enough to not cause a problem. I will try and do a sketch, and some pictures today. Thanks for the help everyone. I honestly may grab a couple of my other subs and put them in the listed locations just to see how they sound and interact..would give me some indication on placement. I’m currently limited on what I can do since last week my dad started staying with us after he got out of the hospital. He’s a veteran that has already lost one leg and possibly may be losing another. But if they can get his health back up where he can go back on his own, he may only be here a couple more weeks.