Sub recommendations for Q7000i's

T

theonlysimon

Audiophyte
After taking a beating across different forums for daring to consider upfiring atmos speakers I've decided to go the whole hog and fit on ceiling speakers.

My setup will be 7.1.4 with QA 7000i's and min12's for atmos with an Onkyo RZ50 and Emotiva A3.

I've read reviews that the Q7000i's need help up to 200Hz so am looking for a decent subwoofer to go in this setup. Room is around 4x3m.

I'm looking at the BK XLS300 as the upper limit of what I'll buy but am wondering if there are smaller/cheaper alternatives before I pull the trigger. I'd appreciate any thoughts and suggestions. Cheers!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
With Q Acoustics and BK Elec I take it you're in the UK? BK would be a good source for the sub, but smaller/cheaper would likely also mean less performance and less extension (generally). Not sure what your budget is or what your particular choices otherwise would be. Better to get a better sub than a lesser sub, saves time later on.
 
T

theonlysimon

Audiophyte
Yeah I'm from the UK. I'm very new to the world of subwoofers though and have no idea if the xls300-DF is overkill or not for my system/room.

I was looking at other more obscure subs like Canton AS85.3 or the smaller BK P12-150SB as I really don't want to go with the QA packaged sub (7070S).

Of course not knowing much, I dunno what else I should be considering or what is effective at filling in the sound up to 200Hz.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
What size room are we dealing with? Open to other rooms or sealed off? How deep do you want the subwoofer to play? How loud?

I generally avoid subs from primarily speaker companies, I also would generally avoid subs with 8" drivers, unless perhaps you have a very small closed off room and placement of a sub very difficult otherwise. I'd prefer a ported sub over sealed sub generally, too, they're simply more efficient (and the old adage of sealed is better for music really doesn't apply with a decent sub design, more an old audio myth), but generally a ported sub is larger than a sealed sub. They likely also have a more limited frequency response to provide a crossover at 200hz.

The 7000i's are small speakers with small drivers, which is probably a bigger issue in general for lower end/bass response than the sub itself. They are spec'd 95hz-20khz but no particular specification on what range of dB that is (+/- 3dB is somewhat standard, but sometimes its -6dB), they're rated 6 ohm and of relatively low sensitivity, too. I'd simply want more capable speakers up front particularly and use something like those as surrounds. You could probably cross these fairly well with that spec at 120 or so. A possibility for sub localization exists the higher you cross over to a sub, and 200hz is quite a high crossover point, plus some subs drop off quite a bit by 200hz.

The BK P12-150SB I don't see, but do see a P12-300SB, the latter using a 12" driver and 12" passive radiator, so is a sort of ported design but yielding a smaller box (altho generally two 12" passive radiators for a 12" driver would be more the norm). The XLS300 is a sealed 10" with decent extension (how low it goes). I don't see specs for the upper end of their range coverage, tho.
 
T

theonlysimon

Audiophyte
What size room are we dealing with? Open to other rooms or sealed off? How deep do you want the subwoofer to play? How loud?

I generally avoid subs from primarily speaker companies, I also would generally avoid subs with 8" drivers, unless perhaps you have a very small closed off room and placement of a sub very difficult otherwise. I'd prefer a ported sub over sealed sub generally, too, they're simply more efficient (and the old adage of sealed is better for music really doesn't apply with a decent sub design, more an old audio myth), but generally a ported sub is larger than a sealed sub. They likely also have a more limited frequency response to provide a crossover at 200hz.

The 7000i's are small speakers with small drivers, which is probably a bigger issue in general for lower end/bass response than the sub itself. They are spec'd 95hz-20khz but no particular specification on what range of dB that is (+/- 3dB is somewhat standard, but sometimes its -6dB), they're rated 6 ohm and of relatively low sensitivity, too. I'd simply want more capable speakers up front particularly and use something like those as surrounds. You could probably cross these fairly well with that spec at 120 or so. A possibility for sub localization exists the higher you cross over to a sub, and 200hz is quite a high crossover point, plus some subs drop off quite a bit by 200hz.

The BK P12-150SB I don't see, but do see a P12-300SB, the latter using a 12" driver and 12" passive radiator, so is a sort of ported design but yielding a smaller box (altho generally two 12" passive radiators for a 12" driver would be more the norm). The XLS300 is a sealed 10" with decent extension (how low it goes). I don't see specs for the upper end of their range coverage, tho.
It's a small closed room around 4x3m so I don't need anything massive and it'll mostly be for movies.

Regarding the speakers, I chose the Q7000i as originally I wanted the Focal sib evo's. However they seem to be very hard to buy on their own so had to find an alternative (that weren't larger than those) and the CA Minx Min22's didn't seem as good as the QA's.

200Hz is a high crossover but just going by what I've read in terms of reviews, that's what they thought was needed to fill in the sound with the QA's. Although I've seen some crossover at 150Hz. But regardless, if I found a sub that could do it then it's a non-issue.

The P12-150SB is essentially the updated version of the often cited Gemini 2. Regarding the specs, I mentioned that on avforums today actually, I wanted to know why people would buy something without knowing the range! However, here I am doing the same thing lol
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
It's a small closed room around 4x3m so I don't need anything massive and it'll mostly be for movies.

Regarding the speakers, I chose the Q7000i as originally I wanted to Focal sib evo's. However they seem to be very hard to buy on their own so had to find an alternative (that weren't larger than those) and the CA Minx Min22's didn't seem as good as the QA's.

200Hz is a high crossover but just going by what I've read in terms of reviews, that's what they thought was needed to fill in the sound. Although I've seen some crossover at 150Hz. But regardless, if I found a sub that could do it then it's a non-issue.

The P12-150SB is essentially the updated version of the often cited Gemini 2. Regarding the specs, I mentioned that on avforums today actually, I wanted to know why people would buy something without knowing the range! However, here I am doing the same thing lol
Why its nice to use 3rd party testing rather than just the spec from the brand/manufacturer. I haven't seen any particularly for BK but they seem to be fairly well regarded for a local sub company from enthusiasts there generally (we're spoiled here in the US with much more choice). Keep sub localization in mind with the higher crossovers, the general recommendation is simply 80hz, as many can localize particularly a single sub at frequencies above that. I haven't found a reason to use a crossover higher than 120hz, but my speakers have much better low end handling than yours (except for an old Energy Take 5 kit I had, that would be somewhat similar but I don't use it any more, in a room similar to yours in size it was somewhat adequate, but not something I'd return to even in my smaller rooms).
 
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