Sub advice please: 2 subs for my HT?

[GoTigers]

Hello everyone. Long time lurker, first time poster. Been enjoying your site for a year or so.........thanks for all the great discussions!

I'll get right to it:

My living room is my HT room. It is 4300 cubic feet. I have an NHT 12 inch powered subwoofer.

My AVR is a 10 yr old Denon AVR 3300, 5.1 unit. An oldie, but goodie.

I feel like I'm not getting nearly the bass response I should be getting. Volume/gain knob on the back of the sub is at 60-70% of max.

Do I need 2 subs for a room this size?

Thanks!

 

[AVRat]

Not sure what type of response you’re looking for, but based on NHT subs’ specs they don’t play much below 25 Hz to begin with. If you’re looking for good, visceral bass, you should look for a sub with better response characteristics. I don’t think adding a second NHT will give you what you’re looking for.

 

[GoTigers]

Thanks AVRat.

I was really wondering if just one 12 inch sub (regardless of manufacturer) was enough for my 4300 cubic foot room. Should I have gone with a nice 15 inch sub to start with, or would adding another 12 inch really help to move air in this size room? BTW, I didn't know much about subs when I got this NHT installed, I went with my installers' recommendation. He initially tried to put a 10 inch Velodyne, but it was obviously not capable enough.

I am considering adding a Hsu 12 inch sub. Is this overkill for a room like this? How big a room do you dual-subbers have (cu ft)?

Thanks!

 

[Tomorrow]

Thanks AVRat.

I was really wondering if just one 12 inch sub (regardless of manufacturer) was enough for my 4300 cubic foot room. Should I have gone with a nice 15 inch sub to start with, or would adding another 12 inch really help to move air in this size room? BTW, I didn't know much about subs when I got this NHT installed, I went with my installers' recommendation. He initially tried to put a 10 inch Velodyne, but it was obviously not capable enough.

I am considering adding a Hsu 12 inch sub. Is this overkill for a room like this? How big a room do you dual-subbers have (cu ft)?

Thanks!

Our room is just slightly larger than yours. One 12" Hsu is all that we "required". I would not call it "overkill" if you enjoy home theater. But since we have gotten two, I'll never go back to one. I have been able to flatten out the frequency response by putting a sub in opposing corners (luckily, it was our only option according to the Chief Of Decoration ). The headroom with two VTF-3's is absolutely fantastic.

 

[GoTigers]

Thanks for those responses.

I was thinking there was a rule of thumb, where one sub is good for X number of cu ft of bass response. Above a certain cubic footage, it is advised to use 2 subs.

My Chief of Decoration caught me with the measuring tape last night, trying to figure this out.....and I had some 'splainin to do, since I've been putting off getting her a new car for over a year.

I know there are many variables which affect bass response, so I was wondering about a possible dual-sub setup.

Any other thoughts are appreciated.

 

[Tomorrow]

Thanks for those responses.

I was thinking there was a rule of thumb, where one sub is good for X number of cu ft of bass response. Above a certain cubic footage, it is advised to use 2 subs.

My Chief of Decoration caught me with the measuring tape last night, trying to figure this out.....and I had some 'splainin to do, since I've been putting off getting her a new car for over a year.

I know there are many variables which affect bass response, so I was wondering about a possible dual-sub setup.

Any other thoughts are appreciated.

That's so funny. Two nights ago, my CoD caught me with a tape, measuring behind our entertainment center (for some room treatments). I of course got the "Whatcha doin' NOW?!" question. "Nothing, Dear. Uh...er...I wanted to make sure the speakers weren't causing room echoes. Yeah. That's it. Room echoes. I dunno, though."

Go for dual Hsu's, GT. You will NOT be sorry...unless of course, she makes you sorry. Please take note of my signature below.....

Good luck.

 

[GoTigers]

Hehehehe Tomorrow!

Yea I would have to say that's a good sig. I have 5 sisters-in-law.

I think I really need to hear one of these Hsu subs in person. I would like to avoid the expense of buying 2 new subs, and just get one to compliment my NHT 12 incher. But, I need to hear one. Maybe I would learn that my NHT needs to go. Who knows.

I have been preparing for a major HT upgrade for about a year. Like alot of you, I've been waiting for all the technology issues to shake out: Blu-Ray/HD DVD, HDMI 1.3, etc.

It all started with me needing to upgrade my 12 yr old 27 inch ProScan TV. You gotta upgrade everything, though: new HDTV, new Denon unit, new DVD player. You know the drill. Everything works fine now. Just waiting for some of the new tech and interconnectivity issues to de-bug, gel, and look like what I'm gonna buy is gonna last me a while.

So I never considered that I would ever need 2 subs for this 4300 cu ft room of ours, until recently. Thus, I have solicited the advice and wisdom of this board.

Thanks!

 

[dem beats]

Hehehehe Tomorrow!

Yea I would have to say that's a good sig. I have 5 sisters-in-law.

I think I really need to hear one of these Hsu subs in person. I would like to avoid the expense of buying 2 new subs, and just get one to compliment my NHT 12 incher. But, I need to hear one. Maybe I would learn that my NHT needs to go. Who knows.

I have been preparing for a major HT upgrade for about a year. Like alot of you, I've been waiting for all the technology issues to shake out: Blu-Ray/HD DVD, HDMI 1.3, etc.

It all started with me needing to upgrade my 12 yr old 27 inch ProScan TV. You gotta upgrade everything, though: new HDTV, new Denon unit, new DVD player. You know the drill. Everything works fine now. Just waiting for some of the new tech and interconnectivity issues to de-bug, gel, and look like what I'm gonna buy is gonna last me a while.

So I never considered that I would ever need 2 subs for this 4300 cu ft room of ours, until recently. Thus, I have solicited the advice and wisdom of this board.

Thanks!

I am pretty newb here, but one thing I can say from personal experience is do not suplement good bass with bass you are not satisfied with. i.e. Get either 2 woofers so you can have flat responce and not need to push one as hard, or get one that will pump out devistatingly clear powerfull low bass. If you want to look at some high end super subs check out the SVS ultra boxes. They come in a 2 driver model that I am sure will make your neighbors WAF alarm go off.

An idea braught to me recently was to check out the contractor series from velodyne. You can then get an external amp and add drivers as you see fit. I was wondering if anyone has tried this. It sounds good in theory!!!

 

[AVRat]

How you proceed from here is up to you. Do you go with a sub with similar specs that you hope will integrate well with your current NHT, which essentially maintains the same frequency response (FR) and increases the volume output or a better sub, with lower FR and better output, to provide a starting point for a better dual sub setup? OR, do you upgrade to a much better single sub, that provides the desired FR and necessary output, and sell the NHT? Oh, decisions, decisions.

 

[Rik]

GoTigers, I have a question. I assume you are in the Baton Rouge area and that your home is new construction. The 4300 cubic feet of area is that in-closed or do you have an open floor plan like all the other new houses in this area? I ask because if you have an open floor plan you are trying to pressurize a lot more than 4300 cubic feet, I'll wager.

 

[Rik]

addendum:

I bet you have a living room that is around 19x19 with a 12 foot ceiling and it has a large opening into your kitchen and dining room. If I'm right you have to figure those other spaces into you measurements.

 

[GoTigers]

Decisions, decisions.......exactly. You think 2 different sub with 2 different freq responses will produce good sound? In other words, would my NHT detract from a second, but better sub?

Rik, I'm in Lafayette (60 miles west of Baton Rouge). We were fortunate enough to split the gap between both hurricanes. Our house is about 20 years old.

You are right, and I've thought about this too, about connecting rooms and how that factors in to the dynamics of my audio system. I didn't want to make my first posts too long (or is it too late already).

Living room is 19' x 23' x 10' ceilings. Very large opening to kitchen, small opening to foyer, and short hallway to master bedroom. Not exactly a tight box to move air.

Just want to make the most of my system and keep the wife happy.

Thanks! What do you think about my question above?

 

[Rik]

You need to add those other spaces to the 4300 cubic feet when trying to decide what to do and asking advice. You will get a better result that way. A sub that is over kill in 4300 cubic feet might be lacking in a 6500 cubic foot space.

 

[darien87]

Decisions, decisions.......exactly. You think 2 different sub with 2 different freq responses will produce good sound? In other words, would my NHT detract from a second, but better sub?

Rik, I'm in Lafayette (60 miles west of Baton Rouge). We were fortunate enough to split the gap between both hurricanes. Our house is about 20 years old.

You are right, and I've thought about this too, about connecting rooms and how that factors in to the dynamics of my audio system. I didn't want to make my first posts too long (or is it too late already).

Living room is 19' x 23' x 10' ceilings. Very large opening to kitchen, small opening to foyer, and short hallway to master bedroom. Not exactly a tight box to move air.

Just want to make the most of my system and keep the wife happy.

Thanks! What do you think about my question above?

I have a 2 sub set up and I love it. If you think that the NHT sounds good to you now, I don't see why adding a better sub would detract from that. I just finished building a Rythmik 12" sealed sub, and I think it was about the best thing I've done for my system. That thing hits 16hz!!! If you have ANY type of ability, you might want to look into that option.

 

[Rik]

I'm in Lafayette

My new entertainment center is coming from there:http://allwoodcompany.com/

 

[GoTigers]

Allwood produces very fine woodwork. Good choice.

I do appreciate everyone's input. I'll just have to find a professional A/V guy to come out to my house and make an assessment. Hopefully an objective assessment.

The new home construction market is tremendous in this area, and has been even before the storms. The market is on fire. We have been bucking the national housing trends for quite some time. As a result, high-end amenities such as prof home theater and whole house automation, have made it here.

Again, thanks for entertaining my question.

 

[Tomorrow]

GT,

You have ample space to fill. But the real question is how much you want to treat yourself with the "WOW!" experience of home theater audio...and therefore how much you're willing to spend on subs. Along with the center channel speaker, to my mind the subwoofer(s) is (are) the most important element in HT enjoyment. I have not heard the NHT sub, so I cannot comment on its performance characteristics. If you are satisfied with its output, but think you'll enjoy more...get another one. If you want to wish you'd warn diapers when movie watching , get a couple of SVS Ultras or Hsu VTF-HO Turbos. (Warning, the SVS's have rather large footprints.) And of course there are in-between options (such as my dual Hsu VTF-3 setup), and also much more expensive subs, as well.

Note that SVS and Hsu, if you give them a call, will make sensible (and trustworthy) recommendations regarding the model and number of subs best employed in your specific room. They're very helpful companies.

If you can talk the boss into the expenditure, buy what you want now. Too many of us will tell you sad stories of buying on the cheap...and then being unsatisfied and upgrading later...ultimately costing us more in the long run.

Just FYI, our room seems like it might be similar to yours...including galley kitchen and great room (with two largish openings to hallways), our space to fill is ~24'x28'xvaulted 8'-11.5'. So two VTF-3's fill 6,000+ cu.ft. quite nicely. I hope this helps.

 

[GoTigers]

We do have similar floor plans.

Thanks for your advice!

 

[Tomorrow]

We do have similar floor plans.

Thanks for your advice!

My pleasure. Good luck in your sub hunting and Funds Begging.

Here is our setup, tucked into one corner of the great room. WHAT SUBS?! LOL. She doesn't even see them or know they're there, heh heh.

 

[GoTigers]

Nice setup you have there.

I hate to dissappoint, but I won't be making any upgrade for a while. This doesn't mean I haven't taken anyone's advice I'm just planning ahead.

I will probably have to travel out of town to hear subs like Hsu or SVS.

By the way, those SVS Ultra subs are 'spensive (per the website)