R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
$200/month is absurd, if someone can't afford it. Same for buying an $8 cup of coffee. Same goes for trying to look like they're rich when they aren't. The obsession over the Kardashians is a good example- most are wannabes. How many people have hopped on a trend that makes them look ridiculous, like 'Lumber-sexual', Hipsters, etc.
The new generations aren't the only ones paying for $8 coffee. Every generation does stupid things.

Demanding a better work-life balance is great, when someone has job skills that make them valuable to employers. For those who don't have skills that will yield high wages, it's not gonna happen, although they can make the decisions for their personal time that bring happiness- many think they hate their life because they hate their job, but I would argue that some hate their job because they hate their life- look at the drug & alcohol use/abuse that's still so common.
In my experience, it's managers who suck at their jobs as doing it well takes real work and compassion. If someone doesn't possess the job skills, they shouldn't be hired. But even someone without any valuable skills should have their own time undisturbed; people aren't slaves including those scrubbing toilets.

Why does 5PM even enter the conversation? Work needs to be done, people need to do it. Someone cleaning restrooms or doing other minimum-skill jobs may be needed, but they don't bring revenue to a company, so how much should they be paid? I worked for a place where one of the owners thought we should arrive at 9AM, leave at 6PM and not be there at any other time. This was a boat dealership- it's a feast or famine business and when boats need to be ready to sell, people need to make them ready, regardless of the time of day. He didn't understand that.
5pm refers to office hours so perhaps a better way to have said it was off-hours. Yes, exceptions exist like a doctor on call, but by and large, most people do not work in life or death industries.

As an employee, "I want to go home" or "I don't feel like being here" don't work. A job isn't a democracy.
Yes it is. So many have decided not to return to work leaving a huge shortage which will accelerate as the older generations die off. It is companies that will have to adapt just like they did during the union movement.


I come from a working class family with the break your back and pay your dues mentality; but have learned to keep an open mind as it isn't the only way to approach things and many of the younger folks bring new ideas and energy. Not saying the newer generations are perfect, just pointing out neither are the ones that came before.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
The new generations aren't the only ones paying for $8 coffee. Every generation does stupid things.

In my experience, it's managers who suck at their jobs as doing it well takes real work and compassion. If someone doesn't possess the job skills, they shouldn't be hired. But even someone without any valuable skills should have their own time undisturbed; people aren't slaves including those scrubbing toilets.

5pm refers to office hours so perhaps a better way to have said it was off-hours. Yes, exceptions exist like a doctor on call, but by and large, most people do not work in life or death industries.

Yes it is. So many have decided not to return to work leaving a huge shortage which will accelerate as the older generations die off. It is companies that will have to adapt just like they did during the union movement.

I come from a working class family with the break your back and pay your dues mentality; but have learned to keep an open mind as it isn't the only way to approach things and many of the younger folks bring new ideas and energy. Not saying the newer generations are perfect, just pointing out neither are the ones that came before.
Many managers suck- it's one of the main reasons people start their own business.

Office hours? You don't seem to be considering the fact that most of the country doesn't work in an office.

Who will do the work that requires skills with tools, materials, techniques if the schools aren't teaching these? If they start learning after high school, assuming they can actually read, write and do simple math, it can be too late- the people who really shine in technical and manual trades are those who developed an interest early in life, not the ones who couldn't find something else and had to resort to manual labor.

Not everyone is made to be in management, but many don't change their path before it's too late. They need to take a step back and decide what they should be doing and make the changes, if they can tolerate the risks.
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
Many managers suck- it's one of the main reasons people start their own business.

Office hours? You don't seem to be considering the fact that most of the country doesn't work in an office.

Who will do the work that requires skills with tools, materials, techniques if the schools aren't teaching these? If they start learning after high school, assuming they can actually read, write and do simple math, it can be too late- the people who really shine in technical and manual trades are those who developed an interest early in life, not the ones who couldn't find something else and had to resort to manual labor.

Not everyone is made to be in management, but many don't change their path before it's too late. They need to take a step back and decide what they should be doing and make the changes, if they can tolerate the risks.
Regardless if someone works in an office or not, the point was they should not have to work on their own time; of course, exceptions exist and this changes for those who have their own businesses. That said, certainly agree that not everyone is made for management and there's a need to ensure manual trades do not get lost.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Regardless if someone works in an office or not, the point was they should not have to work on their own time; of course, exceptions exist and this changes for those who have their own businesses. That said, certainly agree that not everyone is made for management and there's a need to ensure manual trades do not get lost.
If an employer forces an employee to work on their own time, every state has a department for dealing with it and it's illegal for an employer to go after a whistle blower.

Who is forced to work on their own time?

I look at the loss of trade skills as carelessness. The people who determine what is taught at schools likely don't have any understanding of the job market, the skills or anything associated with them unless by coincidence, when they need to hire someone for some kind of work.

My friends have a daughter in law who is a teacher in AZ- she was telling us about the Phoenix and AZ school systems not having a way to advance students to a higher grade when they already know the material. Didn't even have a way to test them or an Advanced Placement system. Her principal had her write a proposal that would be sent to the state superintendent to explain that she had students who were completely bored and fortunately, these kids were able to verbalize the reasons for their boredom, rather than saying "I don't know" or giving some other excuse. Her school got the funding to create the tests and they found that of a particular group of kids in that school, 60% qualified for AP.

I know people who don't know which end of a screwdriver to pound on. I went to a friends' place on a SE Wisconsin lake to help replace the prop on a pontoon boat Tuesday, where my friends with the daughter in law who's a teacher, her husband and their kids are staying- my friends' son used my tools and I advised on what needed to be done. Watching him use tools was disturbing, in a way. The people who own the boat and the house just pay people to do things and that guy & I have been friends since high school- he has almost no tools and would if he were to try to do anything major, I think someone might be hurt. While that's fine if someone can afford it, they're completely dependent on others. They had a company install their AV, network, lighting controls and surveillance cameras- I heard buzzing from the speakers in the 3rd floor ceiling, but I'm not sure they even notice. If the installers left it that way and didn't attempt to fix the problem, I see that as a symptom of the current problems in training and job performance.
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
If an employer forces an employee to work on their own time, every state has a department for dealing with it and it's illegal for an employer to go after a whistle blower.

Who is forced to work on their own time?
This is very common in white collar environments and it's done in sneaky ways. No one would ever report it to the state as it would kill their career.

I look at the loss of trade skills as carelessness. The people who determine what is taught at schools likely don't have any understanding of the job market, the skills or anything associated with them unless by coincidence, when they need to hire someone for some kind of work.
Agreed

My friends have a daughter in law who is a teacher in AZ- she was telling us about the Phoenix and AZ school systems not having a way to advance students to a higher grade when they already know the material. Didn't even have a way to test them or an Advanced Placement system. Her principal had her write a proposal that would be sent to the state superintendent to explain that she had students who were completely bored and fortunately, these kids were able to verbalize the reasons for their boredom, rather than saying "I don't know" or giving some other excuse. Her school got the funding to create the tests and they found that of a particular group of kids in that school, 60% qualified for AP.
I think the opposite is the larger issue. So many schools advance kids who have not learned the material rather than hold them back. I also prefer direct instruction over individual learning, but the latter is the norm and receives all the resources.

I know people who don't know which end of a screwdriver to pound on. I went to a friends' place on a SE Wisconsin lake to help replace the prop on a pontoon boat Tuesday, where my friends with the daughter in law who's a teacher, her husband and their kids are staying- my friends' son used my tools and I advised on what needed to be done. Watching him use tools was disturbing, in a way. The people who own the boat and the house just pay people to do things and that guy & I have been friends since high school- he has almost no tools and would if he were to try to do anything major, I think someone might be hurt. While that's fine if someone can afford it, they're completely dependent on others. They had a company install their AV, network, lighting controls and surveillance cameras- I heard buzzing from the speakers in the 3rd floor ceiling, but I'm not sure they even notice. If the installers left it that way and didn't attempt to fix the problem, I see that as a symptom of the current problems in training and job performance.
I think this is a 1st-world problem. In the U.S., we have specialists for everything and the market is geared to make it easy for people to simply buy services. I personally prefer to do my own work whenever possible as people in trades are like any other group; some are good and most are bad. Usually one has to go through several before finding one who actually knows what they're doing and take pride in their work.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
This is very common in white collar environments and it's done in sneaky ways. No one would ever report it to the state as it would kill their career.



Agreed



I think the opposite is the larger issue. So many schools advance kids who have not learned the material rather than hold them back. I also prefer direct instruction over individual learning, but the latter is the norm and receives all the resources.



I think this is a 1st-world problem. In the U.S., we have specialists for everything and the market is geared to make it easy for people to simply buy services. I personally prefer to do my own work whenever possible as people in trades are like any other group; some are good and most are bad. Usually one has to go through several before finding one who actually knows what they're doing and take pride in their work.
AFAiK, (and I don't know if it's in the National Labor Code, but I could find out), if someone is docked for time off and they're paid a fixed salary, it's required that they be paid for overtime if they work more than 40 hours in a week. There are anonymous ways to blow the whistle, but you're right- if someone wants to stick a fork in their career and any chance of advancement, all they need to do is make a stink or sue their employer.

As we talked about the PHX school system, she made it clear that the schools put far more emphasis on grading the teachers that the students and I'm not going to point fingers now, but I'm pretty sure the answer to the question of "Who made that happen?" is pretty easy to find. The system in MKE graduate kids who can't read/comprehend well, can't do simple math and can't communicate well. OTOH, I talk with kids of HS graduation age and they sound very capable. It's not absolute but it's far too prevalent.

Some kids aren't interested in doing things for themselves, some pick up on it early- I'm one of the latter.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Overlord
If an employer forces an employee to work on their own time, every state has a department for dealing with it and it's illegal for an employer to go after a whistle blower.
Who is forced to work on their own time?
disclaimer: I'm going to use numbers listed here from 2014 - I assume at least general ratios haven't changed drastically.
According to data (see above), out of 146 million wage and salary workers in the USA, 83.3mil non-exempt (blue-collar) and 15 mil exempt/white-collar workers. My view from working in IT for the last 20 years is likely skewed as working after-hours is a job requirement. It is directly listed on the job description and often comes up as an interview question. I am willing to bet that most white-collar workers are expected to read their work email after hours occasionally. Is this physically hard - No, but it's still a work-related effort that never gets paid.

As for whistle-blowing? Why would DOL care about it - as it is a common and accepted business practice for exempt workers.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
witchdoctor

witchdoctor

Full Audioholic
I have lost money in both my retirement accounts since January 2 of this year.

Bear or Bull, this is a bunch of bull. Stop with all these loses.
There is no such thing as an equity or bond investment that only goes up.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Supply is intermittent and improving as manufacturers shift to more reliable places to produce from. Right now it is a workers economy unlike the last 40 years. What is needed are low skilled workers (migrants) to fill those jobs that Americans won't do.
Which jobs? Like driving semi trucks, with the need to read English? Or, maybe we should just go fully omni-lingual on our instructions & highway and street signs. What about dock workers, who are now deciding that they don't want to do those jobs?

People became comfortable with not working, or not working as hard as they had in the past.The US has millions of illegals- how many jobs could be filled by US citizens, but are given to illegals?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Bear markets are going to reduce value in most holdings...just a reflection on how the emotions of the idiots of wall street do things....
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
Inflation, go away.
War in Ukraine, go away.
High dollar, go away.
Fed rate hikes, go away.

I'm sick of watching this daily stock market train wreck over and over and over. At this rate, I'm going to have to keep working until I'm 99.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Ninja
Inflation, go away.
War in Ukraine, go away.
High dollar, go away.
Fed rate hikes, go away.

I'm sick of watching this daily stock market train wreck over and over and over. At this rate, I'm going to have to keep working until I'm 99.
Don't look at the daily fluctuations of the stock market and focus on the historical real returns over time. No guarantees, of course.

Besides, instead of looking at inflation look use real returns, returns after inflation.
 
MaxInValrico

MaxInValrico

Full Audioholic
Inflation, go away.
War in Ukraine, go away.
High dollar, go away.
Fed rate hikes, go away.

I'm sick of watching this daily stock market train wreck over and over and over. At this rate, I'm going to have to keep working until I'm 99.
You should not be in the market(s) if you can't stand to lose.
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
And while we're at it,
Forest fires, go away.

Might as well, I'm on a roll now.
 

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