STF-3 or PB12-ISD?

[Mark512]

Can anyone giving a compelling reason to go with one over the other b/w STF-3 or PB12-ISD? Is this sort of like comparing a BMW to a Mercedes? Trying to decide on a sub to go in a fairly large room 21' X 17'. I would prefer to not order them both and return one.

 

[Sheep]

there's a review of a STF-3 vs a PB-12ISD and the PB-12ISD won, so I think it would be better then the SFT-3.

Anyone know where that review is? I can't find it.


SheepStar

 

[ssabripo]

ask and you shall receive!

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190398

and yes, I would take the ISD anyday....

 

[edwelly]

I have the smaller PB10-isd and that puppy is AWESOME... I could only image what the PB12 would be like...

 

[j_garcia]

The PB-12 actually only sounded a little different to me. In the upper range it sounded identical, but with the lower stuff there was more rumble. I don't think it goes any lower, but it moves more air so it activates the room more. To get a very noticable difference you'd need to step up to a 12 Plus or a 12/2.

 

[Mark512]

The PB12 shows 320 watts while the STF-3 is listed at 300. Do you think that is what gives it that extra "rumble"? Also can anyone put in layman's terms what BASH is?

 

[j_garcia]

Sorry, I was referring to the PB-10 vs PB-12, not the STF-3. I used to own a VTF-2 and it is an excellent sub. I bought the PB-10 and compared them. I kept the PB-10 because it has quite a bit more authority at the bottom.

BASH is Bridged Amplifier Switching Hybrid. They are efficient and don't generate a ton of heat; perfect for subs.

 

[jaxvon]

I doubt that 20 watts is going to do Jack. However, the SVS sub uses a different cabinet design and tuning for lower extension, which IS what gives it that extra rumble. You can clearly see this in the measurements.

As far as BASH goes, it's an amplifier topology. You can read about it here:

http://www.bashaudio.com/technologies.htm

In essence, it's somewhere between classic linear amps (Class A/B) and Switching (Class D). Linear amps have the highest fidelity, but they're very inefficient and a lot of the power they draw is turned into heat. Class D amps on the other hand are very efficient, but they don't often retain the fidelity of linear amps, at least at any reasonable price point.

 

[craigsub]

Keeping things even, referring to the review Ssbiripo provied the link to, The STF-3 can be used with a port blocker, which will make it and the SVS about even in bass extension/output. With the port blocker in place, the STF-3 will gain appx. 6-10 dB in the deepest bass sections.

The STF-3 will also be upgradable to the turbo option.

 

[Mark512]

Turbo option? Sounds like something every man should have! Now just one question....what is the turbo option??

 

[craigsub]

Turbo option? Sounds like something every man should have! Now just one question....what is the turbo option??

The turbo option is nothing more than sound Physics. Without getting too "tech talk" about it, it allows all the benefits of the lower tuning of blocking the port while also giving the benefit of the extra air moving ability of the two ports open.

 

[Mark512]

I just read the article that was posted earlier:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=190398

Looks like SVS came out on top in this test. One of the categories that impressed me was the harmonic distortion testing. Isn't this a real important aspect of keeping bass clean and precise even at very low levels? I'm leaning towards SVS.

 

[craigsub]

Mark, The port blocker option I mentioned was key here. If you look at the THD limited max output levels, the STF-3 added about 3 dB at 25 Hz to about 9 dB at 18 Hz. If you go look at the numbers again, and adjust it for the port blocker, you would see numbers that looked about like this:

18 Hz ... SVS 84.3 and Hsu 88.2
20 Hz ... SVS 94.6 and Hsu 93.7
22 Hz ... SVS 103.3 and Hsu 104.6
25 Hz ... SVS 110.8 and Hsu 111.7

They are a virtual tie with the Hsu run in max extended mode.

 

[ssabripo]

Craig...I think the link was to Ed Mullen's STF3 vs ISD review/comparo, and not the one you did a while back between dual HSU's vs a PB12+/2. I don't see how the port blockers would help in that end on a single STF3, and the 18hz number is definitely not right. I think those numbers are from you shootout.

Either way, look at the blind test listening section, the SvS was the unanimous choice.

I'm sure you appreciate blind tests, don't you?!! hehehe (had to do it man.... you left yourself open for that one! lol )

 

[Tomorrow]

Craig...I think the link was to Ed Mullen's STF3 vs ISD review/comparo, and not the one you did a while back between dual HSU's vs a PB12+/2. I don't see how the port blockers would help in that end on a single STF3, and the 18hz number is definitely not right. I think those numbers are from you shootout.

Either way, look at the blind test listening section, the SvS was the unanimous choice.

I'm sure you appreciate blind tests, don't you?!! hehehe (had to do it man.... you left yourself open for that one! lol )

Ssabripo...You are comparing apples and oranges. Craig offered that the "extended" version of the STF-3 was a match for the ISD. Mullen's comparison did not run the Hsu in this mode. Craig also pointed out that the soon to be available Turbo option will multiply the performance of the STF.

In terms of the port blockers...with a concommitant 30 second mod of the amplifier CCA, the STF is presto-chango blasting away at 18Hz.

I guess that means you left yourself open for this one.

 

[craigsub]

Craig...I think the link was to Ed Mullen's STF3 vs ISD review/comparo, and not the one you did a while back between dual HSU's vs a PB12+/2. I don't see how the port blockers would help in that end on a single STF3, and the 18hz number is definitely not right. I think those numbers are from you shootout.

Either way, look at the blind test listening section, the SvS was the unanimous choice.

I'm sure you appreciate blind tests, don't you?!! hehehe (had to do it man.... you left yourself open for that one! lol )

Shervin, The numbers I posted on the SVS were directly from Ed's review, and the Hsu numbers were based on information which came to light after the review was done.

The blind test conducted was with the Hsu in its two port setting, not the available one port setting. Hsu does not discuss this availability much because of the VTF-3 Mark II, but the STF-3 is fully functional with one port blocked.

My only goal is to make sure the O/P is given the info to make a fully informed decision.

 

[ssabripo]

Shervin, The numbers I posted on the SVS were directly from Ed's review, and the other numbers were based on information which came to light after the review was done.

The blind test conducted was with the Hsu in its two port setting, not the available one port setting. Hsu does not discuss this availability much because of the VTF-3 Mark II, but the STF-3 is fully functional with one port blocked.

My only goal is to make sure the O/P is given the info to make a fully informed decision.

It's all good man.....busting your chops, tis all!

oh, and rjbudz, dont get your pant(ie)s wet...just having fun with my man craig here. First, here are the correct original numbers:
PB12-isd:
18 Hz: 84.3 dB
20 Hz: 94.6 dB
Hsu STF-3:
18 Hz: 79.2 dB
20 Hz: 87.7 dB
So, show me a link were the Ed "corrected" those numbers for the one port block addition....I've read the thread the 20+ pages back and forth, and cannot find it, so perhaps you can show me.

Second, the Quick 20-sec mod in the amp (which is nothing more than adding a resistor in the circuit...I am well aware) will make it closer, but it's still on par. The Turbo model we are talking is where your "apples and oranges" comes into play....a $599 stock vs a $900 "turbo=ed" model??

do a search here and on AVS...I'm an avid supporter of both HSU and AVS (with me owning a SVS ultra), so I know both are great subs, and I know most HSU fans are very cool and down to earth.....you seem to be the Defensive kind, but hey, whatever rocks your boat......

Craig, chek your pm on AVS...I left you a question

 

[craigsub]

Shervin, Ed never made a correction, but the numbers are correct. If anything, I understated them. You may contact Hsu directly if necessary.

And the STF-3 will likely be $699 w/turbo. The VTF-3 HO is currently on pre-order at $899 w/turbo.

No worries about busting my chops, it is ALL cool.

 

[Tomorrow]

It's all good man.....busting your chops, tis all!

oh, and rjbudz, dont get your pant(ie)s wet...just having fun with my man craig here. First, here are the correct original numbers:
PB12-isd:
18 Hz: 84.3 dB
20 Hz: 94.6 dB
Hsu STF-3:
18 Hz: 79.2 dB
20 Hz: 87.7 dB
So, show me a link were the Ed "corrected" those numbers for the one port block addition....I've read the thread the 20+ pages back and forth, and cannot find it, so perhaps you can show me.

Second, the Quick 20-sec mod in the amp (which is nothing more than adding a resistor in the circuit...I am well aware) will make it closer, but it's still on par. The Turbo model we are talking is where your "apples and oranges" comes into play....a $599 stock vs a $900 "turbo=ed" model??

do a search here and on AVS...I'm an avid supporter of both HSU and AVS (with me owning a SVS ultra), so I know both are great subs, and I know most HSU fans are very cool and down to earth.....you seem to be the Defensive kind, but hey, whatever rocks your boat......

Craig, chek your pm on AVS...I left you a question

Needn't be defensive, shervin. I was just bustin' your chops too. I'm sure you're a good guy. My intention was not to say anything bashy...whatever you saw, my apologies. In fact, the only thing I can see you took wrong was the play on what you joked to Craig about. N/P, my friend. Be cool.

 

[ssabripo]

Needn't be defensive, shervin. I was just bustin' your chops too. I'm sure you're a good guy. My intention was not to say anything bashy...whatever you saw, my apologies. In fact, the only thing I can see you took wrong was the play on what you joked to Craig about. N/P, my friend. Be cool.

good enough...sufficeth to say, both are excellent speakers!


but hey, if you are putting a gun to my head, then I would go with the ISD