Stereo Subs - connecting

[DeafBarry]

I need a little help with connecting my two Def Tech supercubes in a "left and right stereo" configuration. I have a Pioneer Elite AVR with two subwoofer outs...these are not "left and right" outputs, they are simply mono outs and are currently connected to the LFE input on the subs. This of course works fine, but I really would like to experiment with the subs in left and right stereo. I know one way I could do this is to connect them to the AVR via the Front (main) left and right Pre-Outs. A complicating factor to that is that I have my Proceed Amp connected to those pre-outs (which in turn powers my B&W 803's).

So here are my questions:

1) Can (should) I use a Y-splitter to run the pre-out left to one sub and the pre-out right to the other sub (without any impact to the connection to the Proceed amp)?
2) Should I ALSO connect the LFE cable to both...in other words LFE + RCA left and right from pre-outs? The Def Tech Supercube1 manual says you can, but that just seems wrong to me...

Thanks for any help!

 

[afterlife2]

Hi Barry Welcome! I would call the company for best setup: (800) 228-7148

 

[walter duque]

I need a little help with connecting my two Def Tech supercubes in a "left and right stereo" configuration. I have a Pioneer Elite AVR with two subwoofer outs...these are not "left and right" outputs, they are simply mono outs and are currently connected to the LFE input on the subs. This of course works fine, but I really would like to experiment with the subs in left and right stereo. I know one way I could do this is to connect them to the AVR via the Front (main) left and right Pre-Outs. A complicating factor to that is that I have my Proceed Amp connected to those pre-outs (which in turn powers my B&W 803's).

So here are my questions:

1) Can (should) I use a Y-splitter to run the pre-out left to one sub and the pre-out right to the other sub (without any impact to the connection to the Proceed amp)?
2) Should I ALSO connect the LFE cable to both...in other words LFE + RCA left and right from pre-outs? The Def Tech Supercube1 manual says you can, but that just seems wrong to me...

Thanks for any help!

I have to say this is the first one for me. I purchased my first sub which was an ACE BASS in 1970 and I never knew that there is a right and left channel on a sub. I guess you learn something new every day. You got me on that one. BTW how did you ever come up with that idea? It's not even possible unless you go satelite mode. From your receiver take your speaker wires and run them to you sub, and then go from the sub to your speakers.

 

[TLS Guy]

I need a little help with connecting my two Def Tech supercubes in a "left and right stereo" configuration. I have a Pioneer Elite AVR with two subwoofer outs...these are not "left and right" outputs, they are simply mono outs and are currently connected to the LFE input on the subs. This of course works fine, but I really would like to experiment with the subs in left and right stereo. I know one way I could do this is to connect them to the AVR via the Front (main) left and right Pre-Outs. A complicating factor to that is that I have my Proceed Amp connected to those pre-outs (which in turn powers my B&W 803's).

So here are my questions:

1) Can (should) I use a Y-splitter to run the pre-out left to one sub and the pre-out right to the other sub (without any impact to the connection to the Proceed amp)?
2) Should I ALSO connect the LFE cable to both...in other words LFE + RCA left and right from pre-outs? The Def Tech Supercube1 manual says you can, but that just seems wrong to me...

Thanks for any help!

Never run subs stereo, always mono. No matter how many subs you have ALWAYS send them the same mono signal. If you try and send a stereo signal you will excite all manner of unwanted room modes.

One other thing, if you combine left and right preouts, without a buffer amp, everything will be mono.

 

[ImcLoud]

Never run subs stereo, always mono. No matter how many subs you have ALWAYS send them the same mono signal. If you try and send a stereo signal you will excite all manner of unwanted room modes.

How about combining the stereo signal into one and then splitting it to 2 subs? Thats how I do it with my 2.2 system...

 

[walter duque]

It's so easy.Right speaker to right sub, left speaker to left sub, what's so hard about that?

 

[walter duque]

Can't seem to edit my post, very simple solution: Sub-satelite system set-up. Like we did 20+ years ago. Just to come up what that idea you should be able to figure that out.

 

[markw]

Yes, a "Y" splitter can safely send the preamp out to both the sub and the power amp for each channel.

Remember to tell your system that you now have no subwoofer and will lose any bass management function the receiver currently handles.

But, given my druthers, I'd stick with two subs running form the receivers LFE output but, hey, it's your little red wagon.

 

[DeafBarry]

To help explain a little further...

I need a little help with connecting my two Def Tech supercube 1's in a "left and right stereo" configuration. I have a Pioneer Elite AVR with two subwoofer outs...these are not "left and right" outputs, they are simply mono outs and are currently connected to the LFE input on the subs. This of course works fine, but I really would like to experiment with the subs in left and right stereo. I know one way I could do this is to connect them to the AVR via the Front (main) left and right Pre-Outs. A complicating factor to that is that I have my Proceed Amp connected to those pre-outs (which in turn powers my B&W 803's).

So here are my questions:

1) Can (should) I use a Y-splitter to run the pre-out left to one sub and the pre-out right to the other sub (without any impact to the connection to the Proceed amp)?
2) Should I ALSO connect the LFE cable to both...in other words LFE + RCA left and right from pre-outs? The Def Tech Supercube1 manual says you can, but that just seems wrong to me...

Thanks for any help!

From the Supercube 1 manual:

When hooking up a stereo pair of subwoofers, wiring is quite similar to traditional
high-level connections. Here, instead of running both speaker cables from your
receiver or amplifier to the left and right high-level terminals on the subwoofer,
you will run the left channel to the left channel subwoofer and the right channel to
the right channel subwoofer. Again, take care to make red to red (+) and black to
black (-) terminal connections.
Don’t worry that on your left subwoofer the right channel terminals will be empty
and that on the right channel subwoofer the left channel terminals will be empty—
both channels are combined at the subwoofer’s input stage. There is a possibility
that with this type of wiring you may need to increase your gain a little bit for
proper balance.

A stereo subwoofer system using low-level connections is equally simple. From
your receiver or preamp, run an RCA-type interconnect from the left channel main
output to the left channel low-level input on the subwoofer you are using for the
left channel. The process should then be repeated for the right channel. In this
setup, main speaker connections are made between your receiver or amplifier in a
traditional manner. If you are using dual subwoofers with a Dolby Digital System,
we suggest that each subwoofer receives its appropriate left or right channel signal,
plus an LFE signal (with the LFE plugged into the LFE input). You would then set
the Dolby Digital processor’s bass management system to “Large” left and right
main speakers and sub to “Yes.”

***

So all the above answers most of my original questions but I wanted to ask somebody about using the Y-Splitter on the Receiver...this is not a Y-splitter to combine the L/R channels, I was just gong to use them to send the individual L/R signals from the Pre-outs to the subs (the L to one, the R to the other) as well as to my Proceed amp(s) that power my B&W's (and MarkW answered that - thanks). But where I really got confused was the manual saying to ALSO run the LFE (mono?) to each as well.

Just throwing it out there to hear anyone else's experiences with "Stereo Subwoofers". Thanks to all who have replied already.

 

[walter duque]

This might work for you. These are my surround towers (for now). They have (2) 8" sub drivers in each cabinet with build in sub amps. They are not fully powered only the subs are powered, so you still need an amp to drive the tops. Look at them like two speakers in one. You can run them as subs from your pre-out (like real subs) then you get the same signal to both bottoms or you can run them from the tops to the subs, this way you get a left and right channel to the subs. You can go from the back of your mains to the subs. Am I making any sense or what? But like Mark said you would have to turn your sub setting on the receiver to no sub, this way you get the full signal and use the sub amps as your crossover. Pictures are not that great, took them in a hurry. BTW even if you have one input on your speakers you can still run them to the sub. My tops can be bi-amped.
This http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/keiga-amplifiers/keiga-kg5230-300-watt/ is the amp so you get a better idea. Can be done with any sub amp. Mine can be used in few different applications, I can run them also full range.

 

[walter duque]

This post is driving me a little crazy. Do you have pre-outs for your front mains? You could run them to the subs and use the crossover setting on the subs. This is it for me, no more posting, I am out of ideas.

 

[DeafBarry]

Hi Walter, Yes I have pre-outs to my mains. I have several options on how to hook the subs up (such as how you described and showed in pics on your other post - thanks for that). The one I am going to try first (just because it's the easiest) is splitting my main pre-outs from my receiver - running one side of each L/R split to my amp (which then goes to my B&W's) so basically there's no change to how they are hooked up, other than inserting the split cable. Then the other individual L/R splits will run to my subs (to be clear - the left one to the left sub and the right one to the right sub. These will connect to the L or R Low level input on each sub (leaving the one L or R empty on each).

What I am still unsure about is the LFE connection. As I showed on my other post the instructions from the Def Tech manual say to connect as I described above and ALSO connect the LFE cable (using the two Sub-outs on my receiver). This seems like it would cancel the L/R connections out, but who knows. I'll be getting the splitter cables today and I'll let you know if it sounds like the greatest way to connect stereo subs...or like ****.

 

[walter duque]

Hi Walter, Yes I have pre-outs to my mains. I have several options on how to hook the subs up (such as how you described and showed in pics on your other post - thanks for that). The one I am going to try first (just because it's the easiest) is splitting my main pre-outs from my receiver - running one side of each L/R split to my amp (which then goes to my B&W's) so basically there's no change to how they are hooked up, other than inserting the split cable. Then the other individual L/R splits will run to my subs (to be clear - the left one to the left sub and the right one to the right sub. These will connect to the L or R Low level input on each sub (leaving the one L or R empty on each).

What I am still unsure about is the LFE connection. As I showed on my other post the instructions from the Def Tech manual say to connect as I described above and ALSO connect the LFE cable (using the two Sub-outs on my receiver). This seems like it would cancel the L/R connections out, but who knows. I'll be getting the splitter cables today and I'll let you know if it sounds like the greatest way to connect stereo subs...or like ****.

On your sub you should also have inputs and outputs, also try the inputs. I just hope you get them going to your liking. I can't think of nothing more to help you out. You do have a few options right now and let us know how things work out.

 

[DeafBarry]

Just a quick update - they sound fantastic! Still need to do some fine tuning, but very happy with the sound.

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[sawzalot]

Just a quick update - they sound fantastic! Still need to do some fine tuning, but very happy with the sound.

In your quick update could you share with us how you made your connections to achieve the ultimate stereo sub sound you were going for, I have a peaked interest in this, Thanks sawz.

Note* Thanks for the set up pic as well, nice looking system there and I like the implementation of the flat panel in regards to the window, so many guys usually just black out the window and center the panel.

 

[DeafBarry]

Okay, I'll see if I can explain the connections:

On both the LEFT and RIGHT Main (Front Speaker) PRE-OUTS on my receiver, I connected a splitter (Y) cable (1 male, 2 female). I then connected an RCA cable to one side of each L and R split and connected that to my Proceed amp that powers my B&W's...so really the only difference in the way that was connected before was the addition of the Y splitter.

Now from the remaining L and R splits from the Pre-outs on my receiver I connected RCA cables to each of those and ran the left one to the LEFT Low Level Input on the left sub. I then did the same for the right sub (connecting it to the Right Low Level input on the sub). This leaves one R or L low level input on both of the subs empty - and that's okay! (If I connected both the R&L to both subs that would defeat the whole "stereo" thing).

Now for the counter intuitive part. In addition to the above, I also ran a RCA cable from the Receivers subwoofer outs (mine has two - both with the same LFE signal) to the LFE input on each sub. I would have never thought of doing that if I had not read it in the instructions from the Def Tech sub manual (see earlier post).

My Receiver Front Speakers are set to "Large" and also the Subwoofer setting is set to "YES"....However, I have been experimenting with changing the sub setting to "NO" and so far I can not tell a difference (I have only listened to music so far) so I think the majority of the bass signal (if not all) is coming from the L & R outputs. Note: Setting the front speakers to small would throw the bass through the sub outs. I believe the LFE input will only come into play while watching movies (Dolby).

Bear in mind I am no expert on any of this...I'm just fumbling my way along, but so far so good.

Okay since you asked about my TV/System layout... here's some pictures. Yes my 55" samsung TV is not centered over the system (which would be ideal) because of the window. I live in a 100 year old house with lots of odd angles and smallish rooms and windows all over. This makes it a big challenge to arrange a home theater set up. My TV is on a mount that allows me to move it a little more left (towards center) than shown in the picture, but not much. It works okay like this and for everyday TV viewing it's fine. But of course we audio/video-holics are never satisfied are we? So with much eye rolling from my girlfriend, I also have installed a Projection screen. These new pictures show this and the projector (all of which can easily be taken down/put back up in minutes to somewhat appease my girlfriend). Also shown in the projector pic are my Triad Gold surround speakers (on either side of the painting). They are made to go in the wall but due to duct work in the walls I had to mount the on the wall.

 

[sawzalot]

Very interesting thread and thanks for coming here to AH with this. I hope you post more thoughts on your set up as you experiment along the way.

 

[DeafBarry]

Just a bit more on this...First off - Why did I want to do this in the first place? Love my B&W's, the richness of the sound they put out is beautiful. I listen to all types of music (with the exception of country music), and there is nothing better than hearing the strum of an acoustic guitar or a well played saxophone and have it sound like the person is standing in your living room. But I also like the shear sonic boom of a band like Tool. I want to feel it hit me in the chest, I want the sofa to shake, I want the neighbors to think the apocalypse has begun. My one complaint about my B&W 803's is that I wasn't getting that solid bass boom I wanted, thus the addition of my first Supercube 1...and of course it makes movie watching that much better (I can feel that T-Rex walking!).

As I am sure many of us do, I like to search craigslist for and stuff that might be available out there. In-hindsight I probably would have not got a supercube 1 in the first place because I think there are better subs out there for the price, but I got the first supercube for a bargain price. Then just recently I found another one for even less money...and with that the idea of hooking them up in stereo was born.

I have since experimented with having them both run off the mono subwoofer outs or "in-stereo" from the Main L/R Pre-outs on the receiver. The listening difference? In all honesty - not a lot. I think it sounds great either way, but I do think I prefer them in stereo (but that may just be more psychological than anything physical). I think the best thing about going to two subs (mono or stereo) is the simple fact that it fills more of the holes of the bass sound in the room. The reality is most bass from music recordings and movies is not recorded in stereo per se....but occasionally it is. Is it worth going to the trouble to have two subs and hook them up in stereo to hear a bass mix that plays in the individual left or right speaker? Probably not - but when the hell did anyone on this forum ever think about whether or not it was "worth it" to achieve the sound they want? We just do it right?