Stereo Receiver with features and simplicity

[AbyssalLoris]

I have had a 7.1 AVR for a while now. Typical midrange unit. Never got around to expanding beyond 2.1. Probably won't for another 2-3 years. HDMI connectors on the unit are now problematic and frustrating - must be damaged by wiggling. I now suffer regular drop-outs. The wife is mad as she can't get it to work when needed (to distract the child).

In a nutshell, I probably need to replace this and I sure don't want another Gazillion.1 with Dolby atmospheric/celestial decoding. I don't want to see more connectors on the back than cables I have in my entire household. Simplicity has become precious in a way that it never was before. Maybe it's the kid, maybe my left brain is decaying - I don't know.

This article captures the gist of what I feel quite well: http://www.cnet.com/news/how-to-save-the-av-receiver/
(minus the wireless bit, and pretty is not so important)

So, please nominate contenders. I haven't been looking up components in years and don't want to scour the internet without a shortlist. I'm hoping there are choices out there.

What is needed:
2.1 support
Good amplification (no need to go bonkers)
HDMI support with ample inputs and outputs - I will connect a DVD source, a media streamer, potentially a computer to inputs; output to TV; extra HDMI ports could be useful
1 optical in (for computer audio); potentially support PCM connections
I do like an FM tuner but not mandatory
Modern features relating to streaming etc are interesting and could be considered, but these do tend to make the unit expensive.

What's not needed:
Multichannel support
Array of audio processing options
Preset listening modes
Antiquated connector formats
Unnecessary bulk

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

What's not needed:

Antiquated connector formats

There’s no way the manufacturers are going to abandon connectivity for recent legacy products because it would cost them sales to whoever is smart enough to include them. You can always simply connect everything with HDMI (and hope it all works right) and ignore the extra jacks. If their presence bothers you that much, and this really what you want, you’re ahead of your time. Wait 5-7 years and legacy connectivity should be gone.

Unnecessary bulk

Ditto. At this time bulk is required due to all the amplifiers on board. I expect that within 5 years or so lightweight Class D digital amps will be commonplace.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[TLS Guy]

I

I have had a 7.1 AVR for a while now. Typical midrange unit. Never got around to expanding beyond 2.1. Probably won't for another 2-3 years. HDMI connectors on the unit are now problematic and frustrating - must be damaged by wiggling. I now suffer regular drop-outs. The wife is mad as she can't get it to work when needed (to distract the child).

In a nutshell, I probably need to replace this and I sure don't want another Gazillion.1 with Dolby atmospheric/celestial decoding. I don't want to see more connectors on the back than cables I have in my entire household. Simplicity has become precious in a way that it never was before. Maybe it's the kid, maybe my left brain is decaying - I don't know.

This article captures the gist of what I feel quite well: http://www.cnet.com/news/how-to-save-the-av-receiver/
(minus the wireless bit, and pretty is not so important)

So, please nominate contenders. I haven't been looking up components in years and don't want to scour the internet without a shortlist. I'm hoping there are choices out there.

What is needed:
2.1 support
Good amplification (no need to go bonkers)
HDMI support with ample inputs and outputs - I will connect a DVD source, a media streamer, potentially a computer to inputs; output to TV; extra HDMI ports could be useful
1 optical in (for computer audio); potentially support PCM connections
I do like an FM tuner but not mandatory
Modern features relating to streaming etc are interesting and could be considered, but these do tend to make the unit expensive.

What's not needed:
Multichannel support
Array of audio processing options
Preset listening modes
Antiquated connector formats
Unnecessary bulk

I know of no such unit. I think there is a need for one, but no one makes one.

The only way I know of that can do what you want is to use vintage equipment.

You get a smart TV. You need a DAC to convert the digital Toslink audio out to RCA.

You connect your peripherals to the TV and use that as the switch.

Now you need one of those quality vintage stereo receivers with preouts and power amp ins. Or you need a two channel preamp and two channel power amp. This can be old or new.

Now you need either a sub with a high pass out, or an electronic crossover.

In the first instance you connect the preamp to the sub and the high pass outs to the power amps.

In the second situation you connect the preamp to the electronic crossover and the high pass out to the power amps and the low pass outs to the sub.

If you think this can't be done, it can be. It is not as difficult as it sounds.

I do this on one of my systems. Here it is:-

It is a nice vintage Quad based system. Quad 34 preamp. Quad FM 4 tuner, Quad 909 power amp for the mains. Quad 405 II power amp for the subs, Crown VFX-2 crossover. The latter two units are in the small cabinet on the right between the subs.

Receivers are simply awful pieces of equipment and I don't use them. I do use a pre/pros in my other two systems but these are more complex.

 

[ski2xblack]

http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/C-390DD-Direct-Digital-Powered-DAC-Amplifier

Neat piece of gear, if expensive. Lets see how it meets your criteria...hits:
2.1 support: hp/lp filters, single sub pre-out, PEQ
Good amplification (no need to go bonkers): 150w rms 20-20k
HDMI support with ample inputs and outputs - I will connect a DVD source, a media streamer, potentially a computer to inputs; output to TV; extra HDMI ports could be useful: hdmi module optional
1 optical in (for computer audio); potentially support PCM connections: standard

...and the misses:
I do like an FM tuner but not mandatory: not sure if the 390 has a tuner
Modern features relating to streaming etc are interesting and could be considered, but these do tend to make the unit expensive: no streaming/Airplay/etc.
cost

 

[TLS Guy]

http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/C-390DD-Direct-Digital-Powered-DAC-Amplifier

Neat piece of gear, if expensive. Lets see how it meets your criteria...hits:
2.1 support: hp/lp filters, single sub pre-out, PEQ
Good amplification (no need to go bonkers): 150w rms 20-20k
HDMI support with ample inputs and outputs - I will connect a DVD source, a media streamer, potentially a computer to inputs; output to TV; extra HDMI ports could be useful: hdmi module optional
1 optical in (for computer audio); potentially support PCM connections: standard

...and the misses:
I do like an FM tuner but not mandatory: not sure if the 390 has a tuner
Modern features relating to streaming etc are interesting and could be considered, but these do tend to make the unit expensive: no streaming/Airplay/etc.
cost

That is an interesting unit. It is intelligently conceived. However the killer is the cost. With HDMI and analog module it is 3.3 K.

The HDMI module seems to be out of stock everywhere.

I think my solution in practice would work as well and be a lot cheaper.

The big thing going for that unit is a user manual of 24 pages and not over 400 pages!

I think a unit like made with economies of scale would be a good seller. The lack of video processing could be a killer.

If you bought it without the optional modules, you are still at 2.6K. I would probably use the unit with a smart TV and use the Toslink audio out.

However, that only gives you PCM and under the rules they can flag content to stop output from the digital audio out. I have not heard of it happening yet, but it is allowed.

The other issue is the unit has no built in codecs, so it needs 2 channel PCM only. So that means its two channel HDMI connectivity is limited. For instance any Dolby Digital + source would have to be decoded and down mixed to two channel PCM before sending it over HDMI.

I can't see that unit being a big seller or making it in the market place for what it offers at that price.

I bet in practice that HDMI module would be very limiting.

 

[ski2xblack]

FWIW, when my folks needed a stereo receiver with features and simplicity, I got them a Marantz AVR. Not very original, but an idea the OP may want to entertain.

 

[markw]

It would seem that from the desired features listed, OP actually wants an AVR, but only a two channel AVR.

In all honesty, it makes sense to simply bite the bullet and buy a standard AVR and only use the channels he needs. There are no "delete options" in these like there used to be in automobiles in the old days.

I can't say I've ever heard of HDMI inputs getting "jiggly" but, then again, I don't regularly kerfutz with them.

 

[TLS Guy]

It would seem that from the desired features listed, OP actually wants an AVR, but only a two channel AVR.

In all honesty, it makes sense to simply bite the bullet and buy a standard AVR and only use the channels he needs. There are no "delete options" in these like there used to be in automobiles in the old days.

I can't say I've ever heard of HDMI inputs getting "jiggly" but, then again, I don't regularly kerfutz with them.

Kerfutzing is for HDMI jiggles!

 

[TLS Guy]

FWIW, when my folks needed a stereo receiver with features and simplicity, I got them a Marantz AVR. Not very original, but an idea the OP may want to entertain.

That is what I did for my eldest son.

I used a unit like this from the previous series of Marantz slim line receivers.

I can't think of a cheaper better solution to his problem.

The other issue, is that this unit is 2.1. My solution and the NAD is 2.0 with bass management and they are not the same. You get good bass, but not the low frequency effects. You need and LFE out for that.

I would say that the slim line 5.1 Marantz receivers are his best bet. the biggest problem is that the amp power is limited so you need sensitive speakers to get HT spl. However the speakers that I designed my son uses oare over 91 db sensitivity and 8 ohm. That little Marantz drives them fine.

If that will not do the trick for him, the he is in for a full blown AVR with 400 plus page manual, or he can add an external two channel power amp, as those units Have 2.1 preouts.

I personally think those units are very useful and can be recommended. They are the best cheapest option for 2.1 HT with or without a power amp. It also gives you the option of adding a center, which I think is a also a plus.

 

[AbyssalLoris]

There’s no way the manufacturers are going to abandon connectivity for recent legacy products because it would cost them sales to whoever is smart enough to include them. You can always simply connect everything with HDMI (and hope it all works right) and ignore the extra jacks. If their presence bothers you that much, and this really what you want, you’re ahead of your time. Wait 5-7 years and legacy connectivity should be gone.



Ditto. At this time bulk is required due to all the amplifiers on board. I expect that within 5 years or so lightweight Class D digital amps will be commonplace.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Appreciate your point about connectors. I just thought there might be a market for what I'm asking and there would be a couple of products out there.

About amps, isn't that the point? If you didn't need all the amps to drive 7 channels, you would lose some bulk, wouldn't you?

 

[markw]

About amps, isn't that the point? If you didn't need all the amps to drive 7 channels, you would lose some bulk, wouldn't you?

True, but there's no viable market for what you are asking for, aside from perhaps you and a few dozen others, economies of scale doom that idea.

 

[AbyssalLoris]

I


I know of no such unit. I think there is a need for one, but no one makes one.

The only way I know of that can do what you want is to use vintage equipment.

You get a smart TV. You need a DAC to convert the digital Toslink audio out to RCA.

You connect your peripherals to the TV and use that as the switch.

Now you need one of those quality vintage stereo receivers with preouts and power amp ins. Or you need a two channel preamp and two channel power amp. This can be old or new.

Now you need either a sub with a high pass out, or an electronic crossover.

In the first instance you connect the preamp to the sub and the high pass outs to the power amps.

In the second situation you connect the preamp to the electronic crossover and the high pass out to the power amps and the low pass outs to the sub.

If you think this can't be done, it can be. It is not as difficult as it sounds.

I do this on one of my systems. Here it is:-

It is a nice vintage Quad based system. Quad 34 preamp. Quad FM 4 tuner, Quad 909 power amp for the mains. Quad 405 II power amp for the subs, Crown VFX-2 crossover. The latter two units are in the small cabinet on the right between the subs.

Receivers are simply awful pieces of equipment and I don't use them. I do use a pre/pros in my other two systems but these are more complex.

Interesting, but complicated. I'm only home during the weekends because of my job and commute. If my wife had to tinker with these things (or, let me not be patronizing - if I had to) constantly, it would be a non-starter.

To break it down, I'm equating what you're saying to this possibly simpler version (is it correct?):

Connect video sources to TV with plenty of HDMI ports. Use that as a video switcher (don't know if this accomplishes all the required decoding, etc). Connect all audios to an integrated amp or stereo audio receiver. Isn't this enough? One thing that is not clear to me is how phase is matched between the video path and audio path in something like this.

 

[AbyssalLoris]

http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/C-390DD-Direct-Digital-Powered-DAC-Amplifier

Neat piece of gear, if expensive. Lets see how it meets your criteria...hits:
2.1 support: hp/lp filters, single sub pre-out, PEQ
Good amplification (no need to go bonkers): 150w rms 20-20k
HDMI support with ample inputs and outputs - I will connect a DVD source, a media streamer, potentially a computer to inputs; output to TV; extra HDMI ports could be useful: hdmi module optional
1 optical in (for computer audio); potentially support PCM connections: standard

...and the misses:
I do like an FM tuner but not mandatory: not sure if the 390 has a tuner
Modern features relating to streaming etc are interesting and could be considered, but these do tend to make the unit expensive: no streaming/Airplay/etc.
cost

Good stuff. Way too expensive. I could do with less amp capability by far. Anyway, TLS Guy brings up all kinds of other issues, especially decoding.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Funny how it goes. You take regular mid-range avr. Subtract the amps. Now it's pre-pro and costs much more.

 

[AbyssalLoris]

It would seem that from the desired features listed, OP actually wants an AVR, but only a two channel AVR.

In all honesty, it makes sense to simply bite the bullet and buy a standard AVR and only use the channels he needs. There are no "delete options" in these like there used to be in automobiles in the old days.

I can't say I've ever heard of HDMI inputs getting "jiggly" but, then again, I don't regularly kerfutz with them.

True. AVR with 2 channels would be quite perfect. Something, as TLS Guy points out doesn't have a 400 page manual is a plus - but I'm already giving up on this idea. Seems frivolous to ask for, but something tells me the product is full of crap when I see a manual like that.

Ski2xblack's suggestion of the Marantz slim lines is looking like a serious possibility.

About HDMI wiggles, it's very real. Just search for the term on the web. It starts out with having made the mistake of using super beefy HDMI cables > too much strain on ports, especially if used without right-angle connectors or some such > occasional drop-outs because of connector being deformed perhaps > wiggling to get it to work > more drop-outs > more wiggling > ... > spending more time behind the receiver than in front of it.

 

[AbyssalLoris]

Looks like the Harman HK3490 offered something like this. Now if they had released an update of this with HDMI, that might have done the trick.

 

[markw]

Looks like the Harman HK3490 offered something like this. Now if they had released an update of this with HDMI, that might have done the trick.

HDMI complicates matters significantly. That's not really marketed as an audio/video receiver and to add HDMI would have increased the costs substantially. They figure if one really wants HDMI capability, one must step up to a full featured AVR.

If you don't mind compromising a bit, as you suggested you COULD use your TV as the mail HDMI video selector and then feed the audio to a simple stereo receiver with a subwoofer attached. I believe TLS guy also suggested something like this.

You could always use an external HDMI switch if you lack enough inputs for all your sources and a lot depends on the audio output options on your TV .

Also, to avoid your "jiggle syndrome", I'd think about replacing all those bulky HDMI cables with something more manageable. I find the plain $5.00 ones available at Five Below stores perfect for my needs.

 

[TLS Guy]

True. AVR with 2 channels would be quite perfect. Something, as TLS Guy points out doesn't have a 400 page manual is a plus - but I'm already giving up on this idea. Seems frivolous to ask for, but something tells me the product is full of crap when I see a manual like that.

Ski2xblack's suggestion of the Marantz slim lines is looking like a serious possibility.

About HDMI wiggles, it's very real. Just search for the term on the web. It starts out with having made the mistake of using super beefy HDMI cables > too much strain on ports, especially if used without right-angle connectors or some such > occasional drop-outs because of connector being deformed perhaps > wiggling to get it to work > more drop-outs > more wiggling > ... > spending more time behind the receiver than in front of it.

I do think one of those slim Marantz receivers is probably your best bet. What speakers are you using? How big is your space? The biggest problem is that they are comparatively low powered. However, you can buy an external power amp.

 

[TLS Guy]

Interesting, but complicated. I'm only home during the weekends because of my job and commute. If my wife had to tinker with these things (or, let me not be patronizing - if I had to) constantly, it would be a non-starter.

To break it down, I'm equating what you're saying to this possibly simpler version (is it correct?):

Connect video sources to TV with plenty of HDMI ports. Use that as a video switcher (don't know if this accomplishes all the required decoding, etc). Connect all audios to an integrated amp or stereo audio receiver. Isn't this enough? One thing that is not clear to me is how phase is matched between the video path and audio path in something like this.

In your frame of mind this is not a difficult solution. It is also easy to use. My wife and visitors learn this faster then the other pre/pro systems that work the same as in AVR.

You need a nice old stereo receiver, which on the whole have better amps than modern AVRs. You must have ones with the "U" jumpers on the back between the pre outs and amp in. You remove them and send the preout to a crossover or the line ins of a sub with high pass outs. Then you put the high pass out from the sub or crossover to the power amp in. You then have a DAC behind the TV to send the audio from the Toslink out to an input on the receiver.

If you are used to older gear this is very intuitive to set up. I have talked members through these set ups before.

As stated this is 2.0 with a sub and not 2.1. However in practice it works well. I use my system in the winter a lot as that is where the wood burning fireplace is.

This system is mainly used for audio, but my wife and I do have screen time down there. It is a really good LP disc and FM system.

The amp is 250 watts per channel, a 100 watt per channel did not fill the space adequately with those speakers.

If you are interested in doing this I can help you along the way.

 

[AbyssalLoris]

HDMI complicates matters significantly. That's not really marketed as an audio/video receiver and to add HDMI would have increased the costs substantially. They figure if one really wants HDMI capability, one must step up to a full featured AVR.

If you don't mind compromising a bit, as you suggested you COULD use your TV as the mail HDMI video selector and then feed the audio to a simple stereo receiver with a subwoofer attached. I believe TLS guy also suggested something like this.

You could always use an external HDMI switch if you lack enough inputs for all your sources and a lot depends on the audio output options on your TV .

Also, to avoid your "jiggle syndrome", I'd think about replacing all those bulky HDMI cables with something more manageable. I find the plain $5.00 ones available at Five Below stores perfect for my needs.

Now, if I did route all audio through a stereo receiver/ integrated, and all the video to my TV (a bit old, not that smart or with enough ports) through an external switch, how would I control the video switching remotely?