Stereo-only SACD Players. What's The Point?

[PhilCohen]

What's the point of stereo-only SACD players,especially astronomically priced ones? Take,for example Marantz's SACD 10 player,price approximately $15,000.. For that price,you could nearly buy FIVE Magnetar UDP-900 player(Price $3200). You say that The Marantz is built heavy like a tank? .So is The Magnetar. and the Magnetar can play Stereo AND Surround SACD Discs,plus Blu-Ray Video(1K ,4K and 3-D) plus Blu-Ray audio,plus DVD-Video and DVD-Audio discs. And because the Magnetar UDP-900 is a Blu-Ray player, it has an HDMI output, so SACD discs can be played by Digital connection,either as DSD or PCM.. And, of course, the Magnetar unit has analogue XLR Stereo audio outputs and 7 channel audio phono outputs.And The Magnetar's built-in A/D converter can be used with a wide variety of external sources.
It seems that the rich and pretentious audiophiles(Audiofools?) who would buy the Marantz unit are spending $15,000 to say "I Detest Surround Sound" because it is part of the audiophile "Philosophy". What a weird way to spend $15,000.My comments are also applicable to other super expensive Stereo-only SACD players,such as Esoteric.

 

[lovinthehd]

I can't see that kind of price for an optical disc player at all. I didn't get into SACD until fairly late, and it was for multichannel content, not 2ch. I use a variety of Sony bluray players and an Oppo 203. At least the Magnetar can play video and multich....$15k for a 2ch unit seems pretty daft.

 

[KenM10759]

You can call me whatever derogatory name you want but I'll be shopping such a unit in the coming year. (Not that one, but Luxman D-07X or D-10X.)

It has NOTHING to do with "I Detest Surround Sound" because I do like it. It's a matter of my music listening room has only two-channel music. I have no place to put a video screen, a center speaker, and surround speakers and really don't want to.

I do have that in another room, also with twin subwoofers, a big TV, L-C-R & surround speakers, an AV receiver with Dirac, and a Sony UBP-X700 player. Is it of the same audio performance as my 2-ch system? Not even close.

There's no way I could or would spend that much, but for me a good player is going to be also replacing a standalone DAC that I have. My 2-channel pre-amp and matching power amp have only analog inputs and outputs, so digital is all separate. The used/dealer demo unit market offers heavily discounted like-new units, just as everything else in my system has been. It'll allow me to play the few SACD's I have and add to the collection, and a really good DAC to connect to a new-to-me streamer/cd-ripper/file server that I'm also looking at getting.

 

[TLS Guy]

You can call me whatever derogatory name you want but I'll be shopping such a unit in the coming year. (Not that one, but Luxman D-07X or D-10X.)

It has NOTHING to do with "I Detest Surround Sound" because I do like it. It's a matter of my music listening room has only two-channel music. I have no place to put a video screen, a center speaker, and surround speakers and really don't want to.

I do have that in another room, also with twin subwoofers, a big TV, L-C-R & surround speakers, an AV receiver with Dirac, and a Sony UBP-X700 player. Is it of the same audio performance as my 2-ch system? Not even close.

There's no way I could or would spend that much, but for me a good player is going to be also replacing a standalone DAC that I have. My 2-channel pre-amp and matching power amp have only analog inputs and outputs, so digital is all separate. The used/dealer demo unit market offers heavily discounted like-new units, just as everything else in my system has been. It'll allow me to play the few SACD's I have and add to the collection, and a really good DAC to connect to a new-to-me streamer/cd-ripper/file server that I'm also looking at getting.

In that case I have just the player for you. I have a Marantz DV 8300 in perfect condition. It has had little use. Currently it is in the used for sale rack at Hi-Fi Sound. I can easily pick it up this week, if the snow stops. Price $300 ONO. It will be just as good as new players costing thousands. i took it out of the rack when I installed the Marantz AV 10, as there was not enough room in the rack. It is in as new condition.

 

[KenM10759]

In that case I have just the player for you. I have a Marantz DV 8300 in perfect condition. It has had little use. Currently it is in the used for sale rack at Hi-Fi Sound. I can easily pick it up this week, if the snow stops. Price $300 ONO. It will be just as good as new players costing thousands. i took it out of the rack when I installed the Marantz AV 10, as there was not enough room in the rack. It is in as new condition.

Only slightly interested. So many questions about it.

1) Is it black or silver? (I am trying to match all the silver Luxman gear I have.)
2) How good/what is the DAC in it?
3) Does it accept digital inputs to use its internal DAC?

Right now I have a black Denon SCD-CE595 that (like almost every one of them) doesn't read SCD's and look out-of-place in my rack.

 

[m. zillch]

I have the answer to the OP's question. Whereas a consumer strives for (paraphrased):

"What's the most compact yet durable way to accomplish all my playback needs without compromising sound quality performance nor ease of use?"

The dealers' goal is:

"To increase our profits how do we dupe consumers into thinking they need multiple boxes, separates, because 'attempting to instead use devices with multiple functions is prone to performance compromises' and 'only for the less discerning crowd lacking our taste and refinement'."

 

[Mikado463]

owner of the Marantz 'Ruby' here, great player, couldn't be happier ...........

 

[TLS Guy]

Only slightly interested. So many questions about it.

1) Is it black or silver? (I am trying to match all the silver Luxman gear I have.)
2) How good/what is the DAC in it?
3) Does it accept digital inputs to use its internal DAC?

Right now I have a black Denon SCD-CE595 that (like almost every one of them) doesn't read SCD's and look out-of-place in my rack.

It is Black.

The DAC is the: - Cirrus Logic CS4392

There are only digital outputs, RCA digital and optical. There are no digital inputs.

This is the user manual.

It is the second unit below the Marantz AVP in the picture.

It is an excellent SACD player.

 

[KenM10759]

It is Black.

The DAC is the: - Cirrus Logic CS4392

There are only digital outputs, RCA digital and optical. There are no digital inputs.

This is the user manual.

It is the second unit below the Marantz AVP in the picture.

It is an excellent SACD player.

Nope, not interested. Thanks anyhow.

 

[TLS Guy]

What's the point of stereo-only SACD players,especially astronomically priced ones? Take,for example Marantz's SACD 10 player,price approximately $15,000.. For that price,you could nearly buy FIVE Magnetar UDP-900 player(Price $3200). You say that The Marantz is built heavy like a tank? .So is The Magnetar. and the Magnetar can play Stereo AND Surround SACD Discs,plus Blu-Ray Video(1K ,4K and 3-D) plus Blu-Ray audio,plus DVD-Video and DVD-Audio discs. And because the Magnetar UDP-900 is a Blu-Ray player, it has an HDMI output, so SACD discs can be played by Digital connection,either as DSD or PCM.. And, of course, the Magnetar unit has analogue XLR Stereo audio outputs and 7 channel audio phono outputs.And The Magnetar's built-in A/D converter can be used with a wide variety of external sources.
It seems that the rich and pretentious audiophiles(Audiofools?) who would buy the Marantz unit are spending $15,000 to say "I Detest Surround Sound" because it is part of the audiophile "Philosophy". What a weird way to spend $15,000.My comments are also applicable to other super expensive Stereo-only SACD players,such as Esoteric.

The only advantage of SACD was that it was an early multichannel format. In terms of two channel performance it has zero advantages over CD.

Editing in DSD is so complicated and costly it is next to impossible. So fairly shortly everyone including one of the principle proponents BIS, converted to PCM and then back to DSD. As I think many of you know that DSD, and by extension, SACD was a totally bogus construct of audiophool mania, and based on totally bogus science, with zero advantage over PCM, in fact had significant shortcomings. It was a totally unnecessary development that actually set back the adoption of multichannel PCM. It did set back multichannel audio. If it had not happened there would have been multichannel audio only PCM discs aplenty.

 

[Joe B]

You can call me whatever derogatory name you want but I'll be shopping such a unit in the coming year. (Not that one, but Luxman D-07X or D-10X.)

It has NOTHING to do with "I Detest Surround Sound" because I do like it. It's a matter of my music listening room has only two-channel music. I have no place to put a video screen, a center speaker, and surround speakers and really don't want to.

I do have that in another room, also with twin subwoofers, a big TV, L-C-R & surround speakers, an AV receiver with Dirac, and a Sony UBP-X700 player. Is it of the same audio performance as my 2-ch system? Not even close.

There's no way I could or would spend that much, but for me a good player is going to be also replacing a standalone DAC that I have. My 2-channel pre-amp and matching power amp have only analog inputs and outputs, so digital is all separate. The used/dealer demo unit market offers heavily discounted like-new units, just as everything else in my system has been. It'll allow me to play the few SACD's I have and add to the collection, and a really good DAC to connect to a new-to-me streamer/cd-ripper/file server that I'm also looking at getting.

Have you looked at any of TEAC's newer offerings?
The TEAC VRDS-701 Dual Monaural USB/DAC CD Player/Pre-Amp/Headphone Amplifier offers much of what you're looking for at a much lower price. Features from the higher end Esoteric equipment are making their way into the more affordable TEAC brand. Worth checking out.

 

[KenM10759]

Have you looked at any of TEAC's newer offerings?
The TEAC VRDS-701 Dual Monaural USB/DAC CD Player/Pre-Amp/Headphone Amplifier offers much of what you're looking for at a much lower price. Features from the higher end Esoteric equipment are making their way into the more affordable TEAC brand. Worth checking out.

Yes, I looked. It is pretty darn close to what I want, plus adds a headphone output that could prove useful in the future when we downsize to a condominium. That's when I would have to sell my record collection and phono amp.

My current system is visually pleasing to my eyes and that unit (even in the silver finish) isn't quite where I want to be with the handles on the front. The size of it is right, but those handles would have to go and I'd want the holes filled. Honestly, I can get a used or demo unit Luxman D-07X for what that costs and it's an exact match for my system. I appreciate the info, and it's not out of contention. Nothing firm yet, probably not getting anything for another 7 -1/2 months. That's when my Social Security Income kicks in and I'm still working the highest-paying job I've ever had for another 3 years. Maybe.

 

[lovinthehd]

Have you looked at any of TEAC's newer offerings?
The TEAC VRDS-701 Dual Monaural USB/DAC CD Player/Pre-Amp/Headphone Amplifier offers much of what you're looking for at a much lower price. Features from the higher end Esoteric equipment are making their way into the more affordable TEAC brand. Worth checking out.

If after SACD the Teac can't play them....plus still awfully expensive for an optical disc player, especially just the 2ch variety.

 

[m. zillch]

I'm trying to wean myself away from all physical media but I did recently buy what will probably be my very last optical disc player purchase, only because Amazon made me a smoking deal on one I couldn't pass up plus it makes me now covered should I ever encounter an out-of-region DVD disc. I'm pretty sure it sounds 100% identical to ones costing $10,000+, to all ears through all systems, which I mean literally not figuratively. I bought mine for $20.13 with free shipping.

 

[Mikado463]

I'm trying to wean myself away from all physical media but I did recently buy what will probably be my very last optical disc player purchase, only because Amazon made me a smoking deal on one I couldn't pass up plus it makes me now covered should I ever encounter an out-of-region DVD disc. It sounds 100% identical to ones costing $10,000+, to all ears through all systems, which I mean literally not figuratively. I bought mine for $20.13 with free shipping.

This post doesn't tell us 'zillch' !!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What's the point of stereo-only SACD players,especially astronomically priced ones? Take,for example Marantz's SACD 10 player,price approximately $15,000.. For that price,you could nearly buy FIVE Magnetar UDP-900 player(Price $3200).

And what’s the point of getting a $3K UHD/SACD player when you get a Sony 4K-UHD/SACD player for $300?

There’s a niche market for just about everything.

And if physical media goes away in the next 5-10 years, what’s the point of any of these players?

 

[m. zillch]

This post doesn't tell us 'zillch' !!

Well everything in my post is 100% accurate and correct. My main point is that there is a massive industry wide myth/lie promoting the notion that DACs and CD players playing 2ch music sound different, however this is generally false. Even (some) bare bones, introductory ones at dirt cheap prices (like the one I bought new for $20.13) are good enough to sound interchangeable with extremely expensive ones costing even $10,000 or more. I've done this very test and I can even execute it over the web for others, not that anyone else is brave enough to submit to the test! This is easy to prove simply by listening to them under scientifically valid conditions, but most hobbyists/reviewers don't do this so instead they imagine all sorts of differences which suddenly vanish if the material is presented at precisely matched volume levels, synchronized, and as a blind test, such as mine.

 

[Mikado463]

Zillch, you crack me up So what is this bargain disc spinner you got off of Amazon ??

 

[Joe B]

If after SACD the Teac can't play them....plus still awfully expensive for an optical disc player, especially just the 2ch variety.

But it does do more than just spin optical CD's (pre-amp, headphone amp, USB DAC capability). For the build and features, it really isn't awfully expensive (but it ain't cheap either).

 

[m. zillch]

Zillch, you crack me up So what is this bargain disc spinner you got off of Amazon ??

Well I have to keep that under wrap at least for now. Really all you need to know is that it is not promoted as some "miraculous new technology which eclipses existing competitors at a bargain price". So we are talking about just common, garden variety units.

SIDE NOTE: This article might interest you if the very concept that they might sound the same blows your mind. It was a blind test of the very first decks ever made in the early-mid 1980s. [I sold them, by the way, and have been working (now retired from the industry) since before they even existed.] Already in their infancy the technology was so good the differences were, um , negligible, and they've only gotten better over these many decades, not worse:

DO ALL CD PLAYERS SOUND THE SAME? (Jan. 1986)

Why do I need to be secretive? Because in order to execute this as a blind test over the web and safeguard that there is no cheating I can neither identify A and B (until the test is concluded), nor give the listeners a manner to reverse engineer their secret identities. Unfortunately, at least as the test stands now, there is a secret way to reverse engineer the identities because the music test tracks were published online, LABELLED, by a third party I'll call "Buddy", which a diligent search could unearth.

Since you know it can go on sale for as little as $20.13 I think you realize it would be mind blowing that it is normally $100 or more, but theoretically it might be, perhaps, $50ish? I also let it slip that it plays multi-region DVD discs and can be bought on Amazon. So let's just say its one of these, maybe.