Stereo integrated amp (or DAC?) with Audyssey Dynamic EQ

[LB06]

It may seem like a silly question, but I've been looking all over the internet for this. Is there a stereo (pre)amp / DAC that features Audyssey's Dynamic EQ with the various reference levels (0/5/10/15dB) built in? Surround receivers with Audyssey are aplenty, but I haven't been able to find a single one in stereo form. This while Audyssey says it doesn't matter at all whether we're talking stereo or multichannel (which is true, because to my ears Audyssey is also a huge improvment for stereo content played by my A/V receiver).

An additional problem that may be linked to my search for Dynamic EQ is that I don't really know where Dynamic EQ operates. Is it in the digital or analogue domain? If analogue, is it a line level thing or does it operate on speaker level? In other words, should I be looking for an amp, a pre-amp or a DAC with Dynamic EQ?

2EQ/MultEQ/etc is not a requirement, by the way. Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction. I'd rather not buy a full blown A/V receiver with pre-outs just for Audyssey. Thanks very much!

 

[ImcLoud]

I've never seen qudy on a stereo amp or dac..
I take it you are looking for room correction for 2 channel music listening?

If so, I would prefer this...
Amazon.com: Behringer DEQ2496 Digital 24-Bit/96 kHz EQ/RTA Mastering Processor: Musical Instruments
XDA-2 USB DAC/Digital Preamp/Headphone Amp | Emotiva Audio Corporation | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel
XPA-2 | 300W x 2 | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifiers, stereo amplifiers, and monoblock amplifier

about as good as you can get for that kind of money IMO, you can pick up them behringers very cheap on ebay I bought 2 for under $125 each on separate occasions..

 

[j_garcia]

Yep, don't think I've seen a 2ch device that has this. So you're either stuck with a mutichannel unit and disable the other speakers or separate PEQ like ImcLoud said. Usually those going the 2ch route are either not interested in processing or have external units, so that's why there's not much in the market with it.

 

[ImcLoud]

I know I prefer my 2ch music system untouched, as direct a path as possible, most of the time I'm sitting rite where I have spent hours making sure is the optimal position and it sounds good, I have used the behringer systems for a while before i got the hang of setting up the subs and crossovers, but I went back to just a premp and amp after I got sick of playing around with it... I have been in houses where people use that unit and it sounds fantastic, and honestly is sounded fantastic in my room, but better with the more direct path...

What exactly are you trying to do, are you putting together another system just for music? If so let us know what you have, what your budget is, the room size and music type, Im sure we will get you on the rite track and you will forget everything you thought you knew about room correction

 

[LB06]

I've never seen qudy on a stereo amp or dac..
I take it you are looking for room correction for 2 channel music listening?

If so, I would prefer this...
Amazon.com: Behringer DEQ2496 Digital 24-Bit/96 kHz EQ/RTA Mastering Processor: Musical Instruments
XDA-2 USB DAC/Digital Preamp/Headphone Amp | Emotiva Audio Corporation | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel
XPA-2 | 300W x 2 | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifiers, stereo amplifiers, and monoblock amplifier

about as good as you can get for that kind of money IMO, you can pick up them behringers very cheap on ebay I bought 2 for under $125 each on separate occasions..

Not so much room correction, as dynamic equalizing. Afaik, room correction is for stuff like 2EQ and MultEQ. While it would be nice to have, my priorities lie with Dynamic EQ. It seems the Behringer does provide such a thing, and I have enough confidence in Behringer to assume it'll be as least as good as Audyssey, but I'm a bit concerned it will be overkill for me, since I'm not interested in producing; just listening.

 

[ImcLoud]

That behringer imo blows audy away, lol, its amazing what it does and I would say it is probably used more by audiophiles for 2 ch music listening than pro recorders.... I think it even says for audiophile listening on the box.... Its about as good as you are going to get, other wise just grab an AVR, but for music listening I hate having all the gabage in the signal path, there is no reason for it, plus avrs are soft to me, not much power, too many functions, too much stuff going on, some are hard to use with out a tv, its just not rite for music listening {don't tell accudef I said that, he loves avrs}.. But even an avr when you put it in direct music mode it bypasses all the room correction and eq'ing....

What is the rest of your equipment, what are you looking to spend? You can get the behringers cheap on ebay..

 

[LB06]

I know I prefer my 2ch music system untouched, as direct a path as possible, most of the time I'm sitting rite where I have spent hours making sure is the optimal position and it sounds good, I have used the behringer systems for a while before i got the hang of setting up the subs and crossovers, but I went back to just a premp and amp after I got sick of playing around with it... I have been in houses where people use that unit and it sounds fantastic, and honestly is sounded fantastic in my room, but better with the more direct path...

What exactly are you trying to do, are you putting together another system just for music? If so let us know what you have, what your budget is, the room size and music type, Im sure we will get you on the rite track and you will forget everything you thought you knew about room correction

Lol, okay . Yes, I'm trying to put together a nice stereo system purely for music listening. The room won't be bigger than 18m² (193 ft²). My intention is to stay below €800/$1100, this is excluding speakers and sub, of course. I intend to use my Jamo C803's and BK ELEC XXLS400-DF as transducers. I have to say I'm not a really big 'believer' in expensive DAC's (imo we bumped into the law of diminishing returns a long time ago) and I won't be listening at levels so loud it'll drive my amp into clipping, so in that sense I'm not really convinced I need an expensive amp either. Just one that has enough power to keep it from clipping, both nominally and at peaks. Ideally I'd spend AT LEAST 50% of my budget on speakers/sub and the rest on a dac/amp/wires and other non-transducer devices. I'll mostly be listening to Alternative/Rock music, with regularly some blues, pop, singer-songwriter, dance and sometimes some classical music, jazz and metal.

 

[j_garcia]

For music: get the right speakers, take the time to get them setup properly, likely some room treatments and use no EQ. That's my opinion.

 

[ImcLoud]

What is your source, digital or anaplg {cd player ipod, turntable?}

I would go with a USP1 http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/usp1 {that will eq your sub and speakers, manually of course} and for the amp I would either go apa150 or tp60, apa150 is louder with the tp60 is my favorite....

If you are going to go digital you can add a audioengine d1 to the above setup and still be way under budget {sounds like you are outside the us, so Im not sure about shipping}.....

Or you can always just cross over with fmods and use an integrated amp like the tp60, then use your subs xover and gain for the bass management...

I love building 2.2 music only systems, I spend so much time listening to them its sicking to any normal person, I love music, and I prefer a STRONG low end, not necessarily louder, just stronger than any towers I have come across seem to perform in the basement...

 

[LB06]

For music: get the right speakers, take the time to get them setup properly, likely some room treatments and use no EQ. That's my opinion.

I would, but isn't it true Dynamic EQ essentially compensates for dips/peaks in the curve as a consequence of not listening at reference level (and doing so dynamically, since the volume obviously isn't constant). If this is true, this can't be done with better speakers or room treatments, to my knowledge.

What is your source, digital or anaplg {cd player ipod, turntable?}

All digital. I plan on getting an USB DAC for my PC, which will be my sole source. If at all possible I try to get my music in hires digital form from sites like hdtracks.com, or I rip them losslessly from DVD-A/BR or (almost losslessly) from SACD. Or carefully ripped from vinyl with high-end stuff like a VPI Scoutmaster with Trans-Fi Terminator Air Bearing Linear Tracing Tonearm, Audio-Technica AT33PTG and Pro-Ject TubeBox.

Oh and by the way, thanks very much for the quick and very knowledgable replies so far!

 

[ImcLoud]

So why not just get the behringer {you won't go wrong, its just I got sick of it, but they do add to the experience}, and an integrated amplifier, or a dac with a volume control and a std amplifier...

How many watts are you looking for? Topping and a few other companies make integrated amps with usb DAC's built in....

 

[j_garcia]

I would, but isn't it true Dynamic EQ essentially compensates for dips/peaks in the curve as a consequence of not listening at reference level (and doing so dynamically, since the volume obviously isn't constant). If this is true, this can't be done with better speakers or room treatments, to my knowledge.

No, it won't but nothing ends up being perfect Even with my system EQ'ed, I still prefer music with the room EQ off, and my room is far from dead or properly treated.

I used a Behringer BFD in my system previously and like ImcLoud, I ended up messing with it all the time in the quest for more/better "If I tweak this a little bit more maybe it will sound better..." and decided to sell it. Dynamic EQ is certainly a different animal than that.

 

[ImcLoud]

Exactly J, its fun for a while, but then the gains {if any} are not worth the trouble... I prefer getting my sound direct, then playing with the speaker location and room to get the sound better....

I see a lot of people looking for the "perfect" system, like a 2 channel setup that has hdmi inputs, room correction, zone 2, ect, that is a different animal compared to 2 channel music listening system, mixing the 2 animals doesn't appeal to me, give me an integrated amp with a set of speakers and some decent subs and I am happy... Ill use crossovers and placement to get the best sound I can, turn the bass up a little and call it a day...

 

[panteragstk]

My reason for maybe going with an AVR rather than an integrated amp or DAC+Amp combo is the ability to control it with my PC, ARC so I don't have to use an optical cable for the TV, and ease of use (all WAF). I'm still leaning toward the DAC+Amp, but I have to think of how everything will work before I can jump on anything.

Mine will be used for a 2ch system, but it will be for the primary TV as well, so performance for that will have to be decent, and 2ch will have to be great. It's hard to get a good idea of what the simplest approach is for what I'm doing.

If it were 2ch only my choice would be a good integrated amp (the Marantz recently reviewed would be a contender) or a seperate DAC+amp combo. Simplicity is nice. Especially when you only have one source.

 

[macddmac]

It may seem like a silly question, but I've been looking all over the internet for this. Is there a stereo (pre)amp / DAC that features Audyssey's Dynamic EQ with the various reference levels (0/5/10/15dB) built in? Surround receivers with Audyssey are aplenty, but I haven't been able to find a single one in stereo form. This while Audyssey says it doesn't matter at all whether we're talking stereo or multichannel (which is true, because to my ears Audyssey is also a huge improvment for stereo content played by my A/V receiver).

An additional problem that may be linked to my search for Dynamic EQ is that I don't really know where Dynamic EQ operates. Is it in the digital or analogue domain? If analogue, is it a line level thing or does it operate on speaker level? In other words, should I be looking for an amp, a pre-amp or a DAC with Dynamic EQ?

2EQ/MultEQ/etc is not a requirement, by the way. Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction. I'd rather not buy a full blown A/V receiver with pre-outs just for Audyssey. Thanks very much!

There are a couple of stereo integrateds out there that have a form of RC. The HK 990 and the NAD dd390 will do what you're looking for.
Neither are Audessy and both are above your budget at the roughly 2k price point before any discounts.
Cheers, Mac

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would take DEQ over Pure Direct for music 100% of the time. The difference to me (2.1 & 5.1) is day and night and unequivocal.

If I had a choice between a $30K Krell stereo amp w/o DEQ vs. a $2K AVR w/ DEQ, I would sell the $30K amp and buy the $2K AVR.

I hope one day Audyssey will offer DEQ as a separate unit, but that is purely wishful thinking.

So for now, the only way is to get an AVR w/ DEQ.

My AVP-A1 & 5308 offer Audyssey Bypass LR + DEQ, but I notice my 3312 does not offer the Bypass.

Which other AVR offer Bypass I wonder.

 

[PENG]

Which other AVR offer Bypass I wonder.

The 4311 offers that, so is my 4308.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The 4311 offers that, so is my 4308.

Cool, so the 4xxx & 5xxx & models have Audyssey Bypass, but the 3xxx & lower models do not. Another distinguishing feature between flagship Japanese models and mid & lower Chinese models.

I bet the X4000 doesn't have Audyssey Bypass DEQ either. Probably another reason the 4311 is better than the X4000.

 

[PENG]

Cool, so the 4xxx & 5xxx & models have Audyssey Bypass, but the 3xxx & lower models do not. Another distinguishing feature between flagship Japanese models and mid & lower Chinese models.

I bet the X4000 doesn't have Audyssey Bypass DEQ either. Probably another reason the 4311 is better than the X4000.

Even the X2000 has that feature. I don't why they don't have that for the 3312. I just check the manual (P.44) of the old 3808, it has the L/R bypass also.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Even the X2000 has that feature. I don't why they don't have that for the 3312. I just check the manual (P.44) of the old 3808, it has the L/R bypass also.

Hmm, perhaps I missed something. But I didn't see it on my 3312.