Stereo better for CD's

[mfabien]

Bought my speakers one year ago:

The Towers have 6.5" woofers and the Center speaker 5" woofers.

Up to yesterday, I was listening to CD's and recordings of Video music clips in the Yamaha's selection "Pro Logic II Music". Singers and most of the music were coming through in the Center speaker.

And now I discovered that the Stereo setting is much better. The Center speaker is off but the singers are coming through the Towers with bigger woofers. The Front speakers, being well balanced, the singing is centered but the instruments may originate from one speaker or the other giving true stereo. No performance change for the sub... bass still appears to be coming from the front speakers.

So if this is what 2 channel listening is all about, I'm in favor. I will reserve the surround listening to TV drama, sports, movies and music in DTS.

 

[idioteque]

sounds pretty good, looks a pretty sweet setup too....
bit big for my liking

 

[markw]

That's a personal judgment call, but I tend to agree.

I myself prefer two channel recordings be played back in the plain vanilla to channel stereo mode. ...no artifical ingredients or fillers added.

 

[mfabien]

I myself prefer two channel recordings be played back in the plain vanilla to channel stereo mode. ...no artifical ingredients or fillers added.

Can you explain the difference, please? Is this having the DVD or CD player do the DAC and transmitting via analog cables to the front speakers (via the a/v) vs digital audio connection to the a/v and the a/v doing the stereo rendition?

 

[bpape]

I think what he was referring to was not using any type of processing to induce a multi-channel output from a stereo signal or to attempt to create some sort of false spatial information (hall, theater, stadium, club, etc.)

I tend to agree. I listen to stereo in 2 channel (with a sub). That's the way it was mixed, that's the way I listen to it. If it's multichannel, that's the way I listen to it. That's the way it was mixed and intended.

There are a few decent processors/algorithms out there that do a decent job of creating a proper surround space from a 2 channel recording but IMO they are rare. Most sound fake to me.

Maybe I'm just old and set in my ways...

 

[markw]

no, I can't. You have ears, right?

Can you explain the difference, please? Is this having the DVD or CD player do the DAC and transmitting via analog cables to the front speakers (via the a/v) vs digital audio connection to the a/v and the a/v doing the stereo rendition?

I shouldn't have to.

That's like asking me to explain the difference between the way vanilla and chocolate taste.

Use your system and play back a recording made with only two channels in the two channel (stereo) mode, either via the receiver's DAC or that of the player.

Then, play it back using whatever DSP effects your system offers, via either the digital feed or whateverr you can squeeze out of the red/white analog feed.

you should be able to hear the differences between plain stereo and the DSP enhanced sound for yourself.

Now, you simply decide which sounds better.

 

[mfabien]

Well I did make my choice between pure and DSP. The Stereo mode I was referring to is straight stereo, no effects.

 

[MDS]

PLII Music mode has adjustable parameters: Panorama, Dimension, and Center Width. Dimension moves the image forward or backwards and Center Width determines how much of the center channel goes to the center and how much goes to the left and right fronts. With the default settings PLII Music is very similar to PLII Movie and will emphasize the center.

Before writing off PLII Music for 2 channel CD completely, try adjusting the Center Width so that the front mains are used more and the center less (higher numbers). I tend to use PLII Music for everything and like it just as much as using Stereo only. My center width setting is just slightly toward the mains - setting of 4. If you set it to 7 (or whatever is 'phantom center' on your receiver) then the center won't be used at all but you still get the benefit of the surrounds, which can be emphasized even more by turning Panorama On.

 

[mfabien]

If I want to listen to surround music, I select a recording with appropriate audio engineering. For instance,

Steely Dan in DTS surround, or
Eagles' "Hell Freezes Over" in DTS surround, or
Diana Krall's "Paris Live" in DTS surround... that sort of recordings.

But if I listen to Renee Oldstead's jazz CD album, for me straight stereo is the way to go. But I do admit that some jazz recordings are very good in the "Jazz Club" audio format of my Yamaha.

Of course PBSHD "Soundstage" concerts are in DD 5.1 and I listen to them in DOLBY DIGITAL (pure) without DSP. But a NFL Football game in DD 5.1 will make me select "Spectacle" as a DSP program and a movie with outdoor scenes will make me select "Adventure" as a DSP program.

 

[j_garcia]

I'm a 2ch fan here too. While PLII does do a good job, IMO, a system properly setup for 2ch still sounds better. I did adjust mine to move more of the image to the R&L rather than the center, and Panorama off, but I still feel stereo (with well recorded discs) is the way I prefer to listen. It's a personal preference, and everyone can listen whichever way they like.

 

[shokhead]

Thats how i adjusted mine, like 1 click as to just hear from the center. Explain Panorama. I have mine off.

 

[Pyrrho]

Bought my speakers one year ago:

The Towers have 6.5" woofers and the Center speaker 5" woofers.

Up to yesterday, I was listening to CD's and recordings of Video music clips in the Yamaha's selection "Pro Logic II Music". Singers and most of the music were coming through in the Center speaker.

And now I discovered that the Stereo setting is much better. The Center speaker is off but the singers are coming through the Towers with bigger woofers. The Front speakers, being well balanced, the singing is centered but the instruments may originate from one speaker or the other giving true stereo. No performance change for the sub... bass still appears to be coming from the front speakers.

So if this is what 2 channel listening is all about, I'm in favor. I will reserve the surround listening to TV drama, sports, movies and music in DTS.

I think you should look at your owner's manual and play with the adjustable parameters of DPL II, and try it with different kinds of music before you give up on it. That said, I tend to prefer to listen to things recorded as 2 channel as 2 channel, but sometimes extra processing can be enjoyable.

 

[Pyrrho]

I think what he was referring to was not using any type of processing to induce a multi-channel output from a stereo signal or to attempt to create some sort of false spatial information (hall, theater, stadium, club, etc.)

I tend to agree. I listen to stereo in 2 channel (with a sub). That's the way it was mixed, that's the way I listen to it. If it's multichannel, that's the way I listen to it. That's the way it was mixed and intended.

There are a few decent processors/algorithms out there that do a decent job of creating a proper surround space from a 2 channel recording but IMO they are rare. Most sound fake to me.

Maybe I'm just old and set in my ways...

If you really listen to things as they were mixed, then you do not use DPL II at all. The original DPL properly decodes what was originally mixed in Dolby encoded films. DPL II synthetically generates a difference between the two rear speakers, and redirects (misdirects) some of the front treble to the rear. See:

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/surround.html

http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech_library/208_Dolby_Surround_Pro_Logic_Decoder.pdf

Four encoded channels properly decodes into a four-channel playback experience.

 

[Rob Babcock]

If you really listen to things as they were mixed, then you do not use DPL II at all. The original DPL properly decodes what was originally mixed in Dolby encoded films. DPL II synthetically generates a difference between the two rear speakers, and redirects (misdirects) some of the front treble to the rear. See:

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/surround.html

http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech_library/208_Dolby_Surround_Pro_Logic_Decoder.pdf

Four encoded channels properly decodes into a four-channel playback experience.

That's not exactly correct- PLII creates 5 channels, not four, as is explained here.

I'm not surprised you aren't getting good results with music playback with PLII, mfabien, given the way your speakers are set up. IMOHO the center is way too high- I've never been very pleased by the sound of any setup with the center atop an RPTV. But I realize you don't have a lot of placement options.

PLII has many parameters that can be adjusted by the user. You may find it useful to play with them a bit. Of course, you may not- some people like PLII for music, some don't. And PLII is just one of the dozens (perhaps hundreds) of possible DSP modes at your disposal, depending on what gear you use.

For my own part, I find some CDs sound better in two channels, while some sound better to me when processed by some surround DSP. YMMV, naturally.

 

[mfabien]

...
I'm not surprised you aren't getting good results with music playback with PLII, mfabien, given the way your speakers are set up. IMOHO the center is way too high- I've never been very pleased by the sound of any setup with the center atop an RPTV. But I realize you don't have a lot of placement options.

The Center Channel speaker is angled down to listening position with the use of door stoppers. I can assure you that dialogs or commentaries are well centered.

As for "PL II Music" vs Stereo, just think about it, Stereo uses 4 woofers 6.5" in size (2 Front Towers) vs 2 woofers 5" in size (1 Center speaker)... guess what gives me the richer sound rendition. And with Front Towers well balanced Left and Right, the singer's voice comes from dead center. And don't get me wrong, my Center channel speaker blends very well with the Front speakers and I am not about to select Stereo for concerts offering DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1. This thread concerns the use of Stereo with CD's (not DTS Music disc's).

I do recognize and accept that DD Pro Logic II is a great technology. But when a CD features a single signer, rather than a group of signers or a performance by a band, the extra channels of sound are not providing what I'm looking for which is the best possible voice rendition of that signer.

 

[bpape]

You're right. I don't listen in PLII. I listen in DD, DTS, PL, Stereo. Call me old fashioned. I've been waiting for the long promised new 'HD' digital standard before upgrading. For the time being, I'm very happy with 5.1/2.1 via my Theta processor.

 

[shokhead]

You're right. I don't listen in PLII. I listen in DD, DTS, PL, Stereo. Call me old fashioned. I've been waiting for the long promised new 'HD' digital standard before upgrading. For the time being, I'm very happy with 5.1/2.1 via my Theta processor.

How many Beatle tunes do you listen to in 5.1?

 

[bpape]

None. It's already a stretch in stereo for some of them since they were recorded in mono The rest are just fine in stereo thank you.

 

[Pyrrho]

If you really listen to things as they were mixed, then you do not use DPL II at all. The original DPL properly decodes what was originally mixed in Dolby encoded films. DPL II synthetically generates a difference between the two rear speakers, and redirects (misdirects) some of the front treble to the rear. See:

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/surround.html

http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech_library/208_Dolby_Surround_Pro_Logic_Decoder.pdf

Four encoded channels properly decodes into a four-channel playback experience.

That's not exactly correct- PLII creates 5 channels, not four, as is explained here.

...

You might want to reread my post. I did NOT say that DPL II decodes into 4 channels; I said that something that is encoded as 4 channels properly decodes as 4 channels. Since films encoded with Dolby Pro Logic use 4 channel sources (only three of which are full frequency range), the proper decoding method is to decode it as 4 channels. DPL II is essentially a DSP option that is not simply a decoder. Thus, a "purist" would not use DPL II for films or music.

 

[Rob Babcock]

Depending upon how "purist" they are, a person wouldn't listen to CDs or solid state electronics, either. The truth is there is no "right" or "wrong" when it comes to how you like to listen to music. You like what you like.