Steely Dan - Gaucho, DTS-CD or DVD-A?

[captain_tinker]

Folks,
I have been reading these forums for a while now, and it seems that every time I read one, somebody mentions that their favorite cd is something by Steely Dan. This one for example:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13181&highlight=dts+music+steely

I have to admit, I had heard the name, but I had never ever heard their music. Now, I know that's hard to believe for some of you, but I grew up with Def Leppard, Poison, Guns & Roses, Aerosmith, and groups like that. I was not really into "classic" rock. My tastes have changed significantly since High School though. Now I almost prefer classical over anything else. Odd huh? Owell. Anyway, I still enjoy jazz and the occasional classic rock songs.

Anyway, my point is, after reading so many times that people are such big fans of Steely Dan, I figured I would sure like to know why. So I have tried to find some examples of their music. I found the 30 second clips at Amazon.com for Gaucho and Two Against Nature, and Aja. I liked the little bit that I heard. Now I am intrigued, and would like to hear more.

Are there any longer clips online somewhere that I can listen to to get a better idea of how they sound? (Legally, and free) I would like to see if it would be worth it to buy an album. My local Best Buy has the DTS-CD of Gaucho for $15.

That is actually my second question. Those of you who are familar with this album, would you recommend the DTS-CD or the DVD-Audio? With a DTS-CD, are the 5.1 channels discrete or matrixed? In other words, can I use just my fronts in stereo using a DTS-CD, or will I lose sound because the channels will not mix to stereo? If so, then maybe I will just order the DVD-A. I was hoping to avoid shipping costs.

-capT

 

[Geno]

As a DanFan since the beginning, Gaucho DVD-A is by far my favorite disc. If you have 5.1 and DVD-A, it's a hard act to beat.

 

[shokhead]

Folks,
I have been reading these forums for a while now, and it seems that every time I read one, somebody mentions that their favorite cd is something by Steely Dan. This one for example:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13181&highlight=dts+music+steely

I have to admit, I had heard the name, but I had never ever heard their music. Now, I know that's hard to believe for some of you, but I grew up with Def Leppard, Poison, Guns & Roses, Aerosmith, and groups like that. I was not really into "classic" rock. My tastes have changed significantly since High School though. Now I almost prefer classical over anything else. Odd huh? Owell. Anyway, I still enjoy jazz and the occasional classic rock songs.

Anyway, my point is, after reading so many times that people are such big fans of Steely Dan, I figured I would sure like to know why. So I have tried to find some examples of their music. I found the 30 second clips at Amazon.com for Gaucho and Two Against Nature, and Aja. I liked the little bit that I heard. Now I am intrigued, and would like to hear more.

Are there any longer clips online somewhere that I can listen to to get a better idea of how they sound? (Legally, and free) I would like to see if it would be worth it to buy an album. My local Best Buy has the DTS-CD of Gaucho for $15.

That is actually my second question. Those of you who are familar with this album, would you recommend the DTS-CD or the DVD-Audio? With a DTS-CD, are the 5.1 channels discrete or matrixed? In other words, can I use just my fronts in stereo using a DTS-CD, or will I lose sound because the channels will not mix to stereo? If so, then maybe I will just order the DVD-A. I was hoping to avoid shipping costs.

-capT

DVD-A has the DTS on it also. DTS is surround music.

 

[captain_tinker]

shokhead,
I know DTS is surround music, I have messed with some of the DTS and DD wav files on CD burned as a DTS disc. I was just not sure if there was a way to play a DTS disc using only stereo, like matrix the channels into the front speakers only, since I haven't been able to get surrounds yet. If not, no problem. I can get the DVD-A and get the DTS on it like you said.

So I guess there isn't really anywhere I can find some longer examples of some songs other than the 30 second ones on Amazon?

-capT

 

[JVC]

Captain Tinker.........
Go here: http://www.pandora.com
Type in Steely Dan as the group you want to hear. They will play an occaisional song by them, and a lot of other songs, of the same style of music, by people you may not have heard of. This is a good way to hear new music. After a few songs, the music stops, and they want you to register with them. It's free, and they don't give out your info. When you register, the music starts back, and doesn't stop, until you stop it.

What this is, is you are creating your own radio station, that plays just the kind of music you want to hear. You said you like classical. You can also start a classical station, and choose between the different stations, depending which you're in the mood for.

When you start the Steely Dan station, one out of every six or seven songs (estimate), will be a Steely Dan song. They play the whole song, and tell you which album it came from. Everyone I know that uses Pandora, loves it! I get it started, and minimize the window, and listen to music while I surf online, and post at the forums. I started two stations. One for Spyro Gyra (jazz), and one classical.
Enjoy! Let us know how you like it?

 

[captain_tinker]

JVC,
Hey, wow! That's a neat site! I am listening to it right now. The first song to come up was Green Book from Steely Dan, off of the album "Everything Must Go." I like it. Kind of bouncy. Very intriguing music. A little bit repetitive perhaps, but so far it sounds like it could be something that I may enjoy. I'll keep listening and post again later after I've had a chance to listen to some more.

-capT

 

[jaxvon]

In my opinion, the older Steely Dan albums are much better than the newer ones. The new ones are still good, but the "originals" are on a much higher level musically. In fact, as I write this, I'm listening to Dr. Wu from the Katy Lied album. In any case, regarding the Gaucho DTS-CD. I have it and I am quite disappointed with it. The mixing on it is terrible (IMO). The bass level is far too high, and the way Fagen's voice is isolated in the center channel reveals the shortcomings in his singing ability. I would recommend that you enjoy Gaucho the way it was supposed to be, in stereo. That said, the newer releases were mixed in surround right from the get-go, so they're more enjoyable.

 

[Tomorrow]

Note to CapT: Jaxvon is our resident expert on all things Steely Dan. His word on this is golden.

A fun thing for me to do is get out my Aja vinyl and turn it up. Ooh, when Black Cow starts........ahhhhhhh...

 

[krabapple]

The DVD-A has a different mix compared to the older DTS-CD disc.
I presume the DTS mix on the DVD-A is the same as the DVD-A mix, though.
Both the old and new surround mixes were done by Elliot Scheiner.

Also, the newer mix is out on SACD too.

Confusing, no?


The holy grail for me will be Aja in surround...however, AFAIK, they're still looking for the missing multitrack masters for the first two songs. No surround release until those are found.

 

[captain_tinker]

Folks,
So to summarize what has been said, DTS-CD cannot be listened to in stereo. The DTS-CD is not as good of a mix as the DVD-A, plus you may listen in stereo if you wish. The price is right, I saw it at Tower Records.com for $15.99.

I tried the Pandora's box, and after a song or two by Steely Dan, they wouldn't play any more, giving me stuff by other groups all the time, so I found Rhapsody. It gave me 25 free plays. So I pulled up Gaucho, and listened to the entire thing once over. I must say I am pleased. That was fun. I guess since Hey Nineteen has been stuck in my head for most of the morning and the afternoon, that can't be too bad. Oh, also I think the line in "My Rival" - "The wind was driving in my face, The smell of Prickly Pear..." for some reason, I chuckle every time I hear it. It's funny, I don't know why. Anyway, this album will definately become a member of my collection as soon as I can allocate the ca$h for it.

I will look into some of their older and newer albums too, since Aja has been mentioned several times, as has Two Against Nature, and Katy Lied. Though, I guess so far only 3 of them are on DVD-A so far? Thanks guys for turning me on to this stuff.

-capT

 

[shokhead]

In my opinion, the older Steely Dan albums are much better than the newer ones. The new ones are still good, but the "originals" are on a much higher level musically. In fact, as I write this, I'm listening to Dr. Wu from the Katy Lied album. In any case, regarding the Gaucho DTS-CD. I have it and I am quite disappointed with it. The mixing on it is terrible (IMO). The bass level is far too high, and the way Fagen's voice is isolated in the center channel reveals the shortcomings in his singing ability. I would recommend that you enjoy Gaucho the way it was supposed to be, in stereo. That said, the newer releases were mixed in surround right from the get-go, so they're more enjoyable.

Just got Gaucho, ok at best but i am really enjoying Nightfly,Kamakiriad and Morph the Cat.

 

[jaxvon]

I have yet to listen to Morph the Cat in surround, as my system is packed up at the moment. I'm sure it will sound great, though. I still have more discs to add to my collection (I don't have all the surround releases yet), but I haven't had the budget to spend money on music recently

I also want to reiterate/qualify my claim on the poor mixing of the Gaucho DTS-CD. My system (when it was set up) sounded AMAZING with Porcupine Tree's In Absentia. If I popped in Gaucho right after, it sounded like garbage.

Captain:

Be forewarned that while there is a common thread of jazz and sarcastic/dirty lyrics in Steely Dan, their music has quite a variance from 1972 through 1980. There's straight ahead rock, country, latin, jazz, disco, and some other stuff that only really qualifies as Steely Dan. So while you might like Gaucho, you might not enjoy some of the Earlier stuff like Pretzel Logic. If you have a Borders in your area, I would suggest going in and listening to the SD albums. Then, for purchasing, I would recommend that you purchase them via the "CD Preferred Buyers Club" at Amazon. You can pick up the remastered albums for under $10 each (the stereo releases, that is). I could ramble on for hours about this stuff. In the end, you just need to listen more and see if you like what you hear.

Fun Steely Dan Game: Try to see how many songs you can find that are about drugs and/or whores. For example, here's the drilldown on Gaucho:

1. Whores: (A man that is impotent tries to regain his virility by having a 3-way with some hookers)
2. Drugs and Alcohol: an old man oggles a 19-year old but is unable to get anywhere because of the age and culture gap (The Cuervo Gold/The fine Colombian/Make tonight a wonderful thing)
3. Drugs: A basketball star with a coke habit and a dealer that feels like he's just as big of a star
4. Not really sure, but it sounds like a drama filled homosexual relationship
5. Drugs: The whole song is about freebasing heroin and smoking the vapors (Tonight when I chase the dragon)
6. Just a rivalry, no drugs that I can detect.
7. A Rambo-like character in childhood.

Another fun fact, the title track from Gaucho is, to put it bluntly, a blantant ripoff of Keith Jarret's song Long As You Know You're Living Yours from the Belonging album released in 1974.

 

[JVC]

I tried the Pandora's box, and after a song or two by Steely Dan, they wouldn't play any more

Hmmmmm.................. That's the first I've heard of that. Yesterday, after posting that, I went to Pandora, and started a Steely Dan station. Within about 30-40 minutes, they had played four by them. Sorry they played only two for you, on your first trip there. Don't give up on them.

 

[captain_tinker]

The DVD-A has a different mix compared to the older DTS-CD disc.
I presume the DTS mix on the DVD-A is the same as the DVD-A mix, though.
Both the old and new surround mixes were done by Elliot Scheiner.

Also, the newer mix is out on SACD too.

Confusing, no?


The holy grail for me will be Aja in surround...however, AFAIK, they're still looking for the missing multitrack masters for the first two songs. No surround release until those are found.

Folks,
I went to Barnes & Noble online and found that they have both the DVD-A and SACD of Gaucho, I now have the opportunity to get one or the other, since I have a Gift Certificate! Wahoo!
My question is, which version is recommended, DVD-A or SACD? Reasons? Is one mix better than the other, or are they the same? The price is the same for either, so that doesn't matter. Are there any extras on the DVD-A that would not be on the SACD? Thanks guys!

-capT

 

[krabapple]

Folks,
I went to Barnes & Noble online and found that they have both the DVD-A and SACD of Gaucho, I now have the opportunity to get one or the other, since I have a Gift Certificate! Wahoo!
My question is, which version is recommended, DVD-A or SACD? Reasons? Is one mix better than the other, or are they the same? The price is the same for either, so that doesn't matter. Are there any extras on the DVD-A that would not be on the SACD? Thanks guys!

-capT

Mix should be exactly the same. IIRC extras on DVD-A consist of: lyrics and credits that can be shown onscreen. That's about it.

 

[shokhead]

Folks,
I went to Barnes & Noble online and found that they have both the DVD-A and SACD of Gaucho, I now have the opportunity to get one or the other, since I have a Gift Certificate! Wahoo!
My question is, which version is recommended, DVD-A or SACD? Reasons? Is one mix better than the other, or are they the same? The price is the same for either, so that doesn't matter. Are there any extras on the DVD-A that would not be on the SACD? Thanks guys!

-capT

Hell we should be asking you,you got them,play them and tell us.

 

[captain_tinker]

Folks,
I decided on the SACD version. I just got it Tuesday evening, though I didn't really get to listen to it until yesterday evening. I am very happy with it. Thanks again everyone!

-capT

 

[tomd51]

Wtf?!??

The holy grail for me will be Aja in surround...however, AFAIK, they're still looking for the missing multitrack masters for the first two songs. No surround release until those are found.

Is this true?!? What a friggin' crime it would be to not release (IMO) one of their best albums in MC format. I've been hopin' ana prayin' that they'd release this at some point, first I'd heard of the lost masters, that's depressing to say the least... -TD

 

[krabapple]

Is this true?!? What a friggin' crime it would be to not release (IMO) one of their best albums in MC format. I've been hopin' ana prayin' that they'd release this at some point, first I'd heard of the lost masters, that's depressing to say the least... -TD

From the liner notes of the last CD remaster of Aja (1999)

When we recently sent for the multitrack masters of Aja so as to make new surround-sound mixes of same, we discovered that the two-inch multitracks of the songs Aja and Black Cow were nowhere to be found. They had somehow become separated from the other boxes, which the producer had abandoned here and there (studios, storage lockers, etc.) almost twenty years before. Anyone having information about the whereabouts of these missing two inch tapes should contact HK Management at (415) 485-1444. There will be a $600.00 reward for anyone who successfully leads us to the tapes. This is not a joke. Happy hunting.

(to be continued)

-Donald Fagen & Walter Becker, 1999

 

[tomd51]

That just sucks out loud... I sure hope someone comes across these, I can't believe how haphazardly these masters were cared for... -TD