SR-7000 vs SR-5003

[PENG]

PS I live in Canada... which means that everything is sold here for a lot more and the used market is thin... and overpriced. No $50 AVRs here.

Not necessarily, I picked up a Sony BD player for $99.99 from Walmart a few months ago. I know I know that was pure luck....

Anyway, how about the reliable Denon brand new for $399.99 may be lower if you can still find it in Costco> I saw tons of them a few weeks ago:

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10125140&catid=10551&logon=&langid=EN

Given your budget I wouldn't worry about 'pre-outs'. So far I see that you have picked out some nice Canadian make speakers such as the Atom and the PSB Alpha, but don't rule out the British designed KEF.

Check out:

http://www.2001audiovideo.com/index.php?cPath=40_127

I never paid their list prices in those stores, in fact I never even paid the 'on sale' prices.

 

[jostenmeat]

I'll look into those two suggestions. I thought $50 for a pair of Alphas would be a reasonable deal and something that I could put my hands on right away and still have a big improvement on what I currently have.

You realize (IIRC you said "minis") that these speakers are tiny. Have you seen them? They're about 4" deep, and the woofer is only 3.5". If you are serious enough to be posting, inquiring, and all in all spending this much time researching this stuff, you need a more capable speaker. Now, even if you upgraded to the B1 from the Alpha series would I still suggest getting something better.

However, I will persevere and look for better ones.

Then I am already satisfied with the effectiveness of my help to you, thanks.

Are there any other brands other than those two that you would recommend? Mission? Polk? Boston Acoustics? I see these names more commonly, but unsure of their quality.

First of all, people here own all of these brands. I've not heard one, dislike another, and was impressed with certain characteristics of the remaining (but beyond your price point).

Maybe some B&Ws?

You can't afford them anyways (I think), and IMO with this brand, they don't offer, IMO, relatively great value until you're at the high end anyways.

The Alphas and Atoms were from a stereophile.com recommendation. Everything else that they listed were way too expensive for me.

Yes, I understand. I'm led to believe that they must grade them by MSRP. The thing is certain items will have been around long enough, even superceded, where the MSRP is nowhere near the street price. Then factor in used, blemished, and b-stock, and you might get a lot more performance for little more money.

I do use my DVD player for CDs. Does that make a difference using Marantz? What is "mch PCM"? I do recognise that sometimes the audio tracks have more than 2.0 on DVDs. And what is SACD or DVDA? These are horribly rookie questions, I know. Have you seen Blu-ray players that are super thin and streamlined? All the high-end ones look so bulky. Any particular brand/model to look out for?

I'm sorry to throw that stuff out there. You can forget all of that, seriously. The only thing to consider with CDs is you're using the red/white analog outputs to your Marantz, in which case the analog section (DAC) will matter in the final SQ.

Still, just get the nicest speakers you can, for now.

I just posted this elsewhere today, but it could be rather interesting to you . . .

Budget Bookshelf Speaker Face Off 2009 Results

 

[giselle]

Okay, I've got a fair chunk to chew and digest.

To help you better understand some choices, I was choosing smaller speakers because I am in a pretty tight space for all this stuff. My TV is about 5'4" away from my eyes. The shelf where I would put bookshelf speakers are about 5'6" to my left and right. And the ceiling above this space is about..... 12'. I need to make sure that I am not overwhelmed by my speakers.

And thanks again to jostenmeat and PENG and Isiberian and njedpx3 for your advice. You're providing me with great distraction from a term paper I have to write.

 

[jostenmeat]

Okay, I've got a fair chunk to chew and digest.

To help you better understand some choices, I was choosing smaller speakers because I am in a pretty tight space for all this stuff. My TV is about 5'4" away from my eyes. The shelf where I would put bookshelf speakers are about 5'6" to my left and right. And the ceiling above this space is about..... 12'. I need to make sure that I am not overwhelmed by my speakers.

You speak completely from an aesthetic point of view, or a "fear of being overwhelmed with sound" point of view?

If aesthetic, I don't know what to say, but it's not like bookshelves are huge items, and the footprint of say . . . *goes looking* . . . even the more-boxy-than-usual-even-for-a-bookshelf design of the 170 is only .625 sq ft.

If it's fear of being overwhelmed with sound, do not worry at all. The Alpha you're considering could not properly replicate a typical man's voice. I have a very typical male vocal range, and I can speak considerably below the range of that speaker. It's not so much being overwhelmed, rather than really missing out . . .

The stated range is down to 100hz at -3db (and I'm guessing that's exaggerated too). This means it can't even properly reproduce the 6th string of a guitar. Forget cello, bass, bassoon, tympani, tuba, piano . . .

 

[giselle]

You speak completely from an aesthetic point of view, or a "fear of being overwhelmed with sound" point of view?

The stated range is down to 100hz at -3db (and I'm guessing that's exaggerated too). This means it can't even properly reproduce the 6th string of a guitar. Forget cello, bass, bassoon, tympani, tuba, piano . . .

Yes, I mean overwhelmed in the auditory sense. I am guessing that that is what people mean by "bright".. as if 'squinting' with your ears..?

But you're right again in that I would like RANGE in the speakers. The ability to hear accurately the highs and lows. Would a subwoofer supplement this arrangement and mitigate some short-comings of some of these speakers?

PS After this, my next question goes to crossovers. *haha*

 

[jostenmeat]

Yes, I mean overwhelmed in the auditory sense. I am guessing that that is what people mean by "bright".. as if 'squinting' with your ears..?

For bright, all you really need is a tweeter. Or perhaps a tweeter with a midrange woofer. Something like the Alpha could be designed to be very bright, if they wanted it to, no problem.

But you're right again in that I would like RANGE in the speakers. The ability to hear accurately the highs and lows. Would a subwoofer supplement this arrangement and mitigate some short-comings of some of these speakers?

Not exactly. The midrange is where it's all at, and you're missing a lot of it.

And since these "cubes" are so small and limited, when combined with sub, the crossover is then forced to be very high, which then forces the sub to be even closer to the speaker. The extremely high xover of course also demands that the sub reproduce frequencies that the speaker should've done for itself!

Basically, you'd have to buy two subwoofers, and place one Alpha right on top of each (and it wouldn't sound good anyways). Now, does that redefine overwhelming to you?

Now, if this was purely HT, I can see why someone might get cubes with a sub (not that I would condone it!). If for music, just get a pair of bookshelves with this budget. That's my vote.

As in bookshelves, not "cubes".

 

[giselle]

Ah, so terribly patient you are, jostenmeat!

Clarity. That's what I like. And I do enjoy watching movies, but the sound doesn't need to be awesome for that. Just good. My musical tastes lean towards jazz, (acoustic) folk, indie and classical.

Just to give you a bit of background on me, when I was much younger, I had the opportunity to grow up with tube amps and acoustic-foamed living rooms and speaker cabling that could power small villages. Things I never understood nor held an interest in. Now I realise that I was quietly groomed to better tastes (without my knowing it). But, that was a lifetime ago. I'm learning a lot of this stuff for the first time. BUT, if you put me in front of a pair of speakers, I'm pretty confident about my ears... because though I may not know the language to describe it, I've heard what GOOD really is, as oppose to mediocre.

But, my audiophilic friend, I can only buy what I can afford (even if my tastes run higher than my budget). If you name me the best speakers that $250-$300 can buy (used), then I'll go hunting for them until I find them. Deal?

PS Definitely not into cubes. Look cute, but not where I want to go. I'm glad you're not steering me down that path.

 

[jostenmeat]

To reciprocate, I used a pair of Radio Shack bookshelves for almost two decades. All I did was classical music during this time. This hobby is new to me, believe it or not, and is something I took up in full force after I stopped playing "seriously". Rather recently, I've become involved in a string quartet for fun, and it looks like we have our first performance in March.

Now, to find speakers of great value, there is a lot of personal subjectivity (which itself also changes), and you're doing well to hit up forums.

For what I've heard, I already recommended my favorite in that price point. The Ascend 170SE are on sale right now for $260. Is there a better deal for you out there? Most likely. If you go with the used market, who knows what you might land one day . . .

Crap, you said you're in CA? Ask them about shipping.

They are boxy looking, to some extent. Rather plainish textured black vinyl finish. Very easy to wall mount. Great off axis response. Clearer than many other competing bookshelves I've heard. Perfect? No. Waaaaaaay better than the Alpha mini's you're considering? Yes.

 

[giselle]

To reciprocate, I used a pair of Radio Shack bookshelves for almost two decades. All I did was classical music during this time. This hobby is new to me, believe it or not, and is something I took up in full force after I stopped playing "seriously". Rather recently, I've become involved in a string quartet for fun, and it looks like we have our first performance in March.

Hey, that's awesome! What do you play? Violin/viola/cello/bass?

For what I've heard, I already recommended my favorite in that price point. The Ascend 170SE are on sale right now for $260. .

Would I need a sub with those? Can you recommend one to compliment the Ascends? And what about cables? Snooty high-end cables or FutureShop fair?? That must be a whole other discussion for some other time.

 

[jostenmeat]

Hey, that's awesome! What do you play? Violin/viola/cello/bass?

Violin.

Would I need a sub with those? Can you recommend one to compliment the Ascends? And what about cables? Snooty high-end cables or FutureShop fair?? That must be a whole other discussion for some other time.

For full range reproduction, yes you would need a sub. Subs are a can of worms, because of implementation. However, I would just try the bookshelves by themselves for a while. Ideally, if you are a mad-woman, you would get stereo subs, nearby each monitor, with sophisticated bass mgmt.

You could also use a sub's internal low-pass, where the speaker wires go directly to the sub, and out again to the speakers.

Or of course how many of us do it here with our HTs, and simply use the receiver's xover (usually the most limited, however, this is how we get our movie "LFE").

Do not spend anything considerable on cabling. Try Monoprice or Blue Jeans Cable. That is all you need.

Please report back on shipping costs if you ever do contact Ascend.

Do any Canadians here know of an "Audiogon" for CA? So many Canucks come on to these boards, I am now curious so I can browse to help out every once in a while . . .

 

[ratso]

hello giselle, for a first timer you are very entertaining, great thread! just wanted to let you know your dollars will go a lot (LOT) farther if you buy used and there is a canadian version of audiogon - google canuck audio mart

 

[Lordoftherings]

There are some places in Canada where one can get some decent deals on used audio equipment.
* But nobody's able to read this...

 

[giselle]

Okay, updated question...

What is the difference between the SR7000 and the SR6200 (other than 6.1 channels)? Can someone enlighten me?