Spkr levels and LFE+Main ect…

[Pogre]

I do like the way it sounds now, i’ll be interested to “see” what im liking when i run a few sweeps….

More like "'see' what you're lacking".

I find my bass is much better and more "there" with a higher crossover. I don't mean more boomy, more there. Cleanly. I think it was suggested multiple times in this thread to try 80 for everything and go from there.

 

[PENG]

Hello, im doing a recalibration, its been awhile. Should i set XO levels, distance and choose LFE or LFE+Main before setting their spl’s.
My system is 7.1.4 i do use (4) subs
I know i have to set volume to 0db and c weight, calibrate to 75db, i use an omnimic.
Your thoughts….

Since you won't use auto REQ, there isn't much to talk about as your questions are very easy to answer, except I am not sure what you meant by XO "levels", you mean setting the low pass frequency (crossover setting) for the subwoofer? It is usually better to set the distance and levels first. Do it one speaker at a time obvisouly, with the sub off, then do it with the sub by itself.

 

[Pogre]

I am of the opinion to let the AVR sound calibration do its thing and leave well enough alone. End of story. Then adjust any of the Audio EQ's to your liking or not.

The only problem with that is a lot of manufacturers seem to not want to tell folks their speakers are "small" so they end up being set to large and/or a way too low crossover. So I think it's a good idea to at least check and change those 2 things, if necessary, after running calibration.

 

[Hetfield]

Just to clear things up on something a read probably 10 posts ago. If you turn off Audyssey the levels on each speaker still remain intact? I didn't know that actually. So you can basically toggle between Audyssey on and off, levels still remain and see which you like best, on/off?

 

[Pogre]

Just to clear things up on something a read probably 10 posts ago. If you turn off Audyssey the levels on each speaker still remain intact? I didn't know that actually. So you can basically toggle between Audyssey on and off, levels still remain and see which you like best, on/off?

Yup. The distances and levels are still intact with Audyssey turned off.

 

[Hetfield]

Yup. The distances and levels are still intact with Audyssey turned off.

Interesting, maybe I'll experiment a bit. I like Audyssey though since I got the app.

 

[ryanosaur]

Just to clear things up on something a read probably 10 posts ago. If you turn off Audyssey the levels on each speaker still remain intact? I didn't know that actually. So you can basically toggle between Audyssey on and off, levels still remain and see which you like best, on/off?

You have to approach this with some measure of patience. While the distance and trim settings will persist, our audio-memory does not last long enough and the processing switch is not instantaneous.
When experimenting with preference settings like this, it is best to sit for 15 minutes, say, and A/B one song, or rather a short passage in that song.
Your goal, in a manner, is training yourself to hear minute differences like cymbal attack and sizzle, the quality of sustained piano, vocal nuance… just like tasting wine or coffee, you quickly hit a threshold of fatigue, however. (Different from listening fatigue where your ears hurt, more like confusion about what you are hearing.) do this incrementally over a few days, listening for one thing at a time.
This is how I landed at my decision to use 80 for my crossover. I spent 3 or 4 days cross checking 60-70, 60-80, 70-80, 80-90.

 

[lovinthehd]

What main speakers do you have where you're setting a xover of 40?

 

[HT4Life]

I ran some sweeps of all (4) of my subs individually, and then combined. They all have a dip centered around 70hz. I had them flat from 10hz-120hz way back but have recently made room for my MartinLogan Sequel2’s so the subs got moved.
Music has taken priority.

WTS, i re-did a few things. As i said i went back to plain LFE, no Mains. I raised the XO point to 60hz for the LCR AND (4) surrounds. All are set to small.

I tryed to boost a little centered around 70hz with my MiniDSP, but didnt see any real change until i raised the dip a little bit with a +3db curve, i wasn’t comfortable adding that much boost measured at the LP….. regardless what i was measuring at the LP, i was indeed adding that to all (4) subs, my guess i would have had to add a whole lot more to make a change or flatten the FR. I just centered the XO at 60hz which lightened the load for my mains and i didnt have to deal with the dip around 70hz.

my guess i should run one of my mains with the sub to see their combined response….i think

 

[HT4Life]

What main speakers do you have where you're setting a xover of 40?

Its a design from HT Guide, the WTMW Dayton RS drivers and Curts XO.
Dual RS225 8” Rs150 mid RS 28 tweeter

 

[lovinthehd]

Its a design from HT Guide, the WTMW Dayton RS drivers and Curts XO.
Dual RS225 8” Rs150 mid RS 28 tweeter

So what happens to the 70hz dip if you set xovers to 90/100/110?

 

[ryanosaur]

Its a design from HT Guide, the WTMW Dayton RS drivers and Curts XO.
Dual RS225 8” Rs150 mid RS 28 tweeter

Is there a link to the design? How big is the cabinet?
Just looking at the Woofer tells that it likely needs an 80Hz XO for optimum performance, perhaps 70 would suffice. However, it is not a Woofer suited to a full range design: It is rolling off at 100Hz according to Dayton's spec sheet. This isn't to say it is not capable of performing lower, however that is the benefit of having good Subwoofers in that you can take the load off a Driver that isn't specialized in delivering lower frequencies.
A more in-depth look at the Speaker's design and performance goals if any are given will answer for certain.
That said, you want to set the XO at a minimum of 1/2 octave above the Speaker F3. Going a full octave over the F3 just helps the Speaker perform better where it is more efficient.

 

[HT4Life]

Is there a link to the design? How big is the cabinet?
Just looking at the Woofer tells that it likely needs an 80Hz XO for optimum performance, perhaps 70 would suffice. However, it is not a Woofer suited to a full range design: It is rolling off at 100Hz according to Dayton's spec sheet. This isn't to say it is not capable of performing lower, however that is the benefit of having good Subwoofers in that you can take the load off a Driver that isn't specialized in delivering lower frequencies.
A more in-depth look at the Speaker's design and performance goals if any are given will answer for certain.
That said, you want to set the XO at a minimum of 1/2 octave above the Speaker F3. Going a full octave over the F3 just helps the Speaker perform better where it is more efficient.

Audyssey had the LCR at 40hz. They measure well inroom, they show about 45hz starting to go, they‘re sealed so 12db/oct. I like the way the 8’s sound, the subs get tubby up top. As to excursion, i really dont stress em out, mostly 75-80db, the room is small, 13’x19’x cathedral ceilings. Its an easy room to power. Having the 7 mono’s really give em a lot of control. The subs are sealed too, 15” Adire Tumults in 3cube cabinets powered by mono QSC1450’s. Tons of power, lots of displacement, the MiniDSP is acting like a rca splitter, i can just take it out. Im not EQing any of them.

 

[lovinthehd]

You're using a minidsp without eq for your subs? In sealed boxes?

 

[HT4Life]

A Guide to HTguide.com Completed Speaker Designs. - HTGuide Forum

This is a guide intended to help people locate and choose between DIY Speaker Designs completed here at HTGuide's Mission Possible DIY Forum or by friends. These are designs that you can have confidence in. These designs are fully documented and ready for building. These designs were based on...

www.htguide.com

if you scroll down the page, you’ll find the RS WT/MW all 3 in the pic are mine, the gray painted ones, you can link to the build thread, mine starts around the 5th page

 

[HT4Life]

You're using a minidsp without eq for your subs? In sealed boxes?

Yup, theres an issue around 70hz, i just XO at 60hz slightly below the issue and I didn’t have to use it. I would have used it if there was a nasty peak, peaks respond well to EQ, raising dips is a bit more challenging than building a filter and raising it, if its in a null, you can add as much EQ as you want and all you’ll do is stress out ur subs and amps. Nulls require moving the subs…

 

[HT4Life]

It sounds damn good, i’ve thrown some decent demos at it, gotta say, its my best system yet

 

[lovinthehd]

Yup, theres an issue around 70hz, i just XO at 60hz slightly below the issue and I didn’t have to use it. I would have used it if there was a nasty peak, peaks respond well to EQ, raising dips is a bit more challenging than building a filter and raising it, if its in a null, you can add as much EQ as you want and all you’ll do is stress out ur subs and amps. Nulls require moving the subs…

Not particularly eq with your mains, but rather letting the subs handle it in multiple positions was more my thought. Moving everything around can be a pain no doubt. If using LFE+Main all bets are off, tho. My subs are harder to stress out than my speakers....but depends on what subs and seems from Ryan's look into your speakers, they're quite limited.

 

[ryanosaur]

Audyssey had the LCR at 40hz. They measure well inroom, they show about 45hz starting to go, they‘re sealed so 12db/oct. I like the way the 8’s sound, the subs get tubby up top. As to excursion, i really dont stress em out, mostly 75-80db, the room is small, 13’x19’x cathedral ceilings. Its an easy room to power. Having the 7 mono’s really give em a lot of control. The subs are sealed too, 15” Adire Tumults in 3cube cabinets powered by mono QSC1450’s. Tons of power, lots of displacement, the MiniDSP is acting like a rca splitter, i can just take it out. Im not EQing any of them.

For what it is worth, those cabinets are roughly 2cu.ft each... sealed you say... The F3 of those is probably in the neighborhood of 55Hz. This is just a rough estimate as I don't have time to play around on BBPro right now. I have not met a Center Channel design that does not benefit from a 100hz crossover.
What you are describing to us is cool and all, but it doesn't make sense from an actual perspective of proper setup.
Please know, I am not trying to do anything but possibly assist you in getting more performance from your rig.
There are warning signs though, that you aren't setting up right.
If your Subs are getting boomy, you probably have them in corners and need to desperately EQ them, or better yet find better positions for them. Those are Car Audio drivers, and while that does not disqualify them from usage in home, they aren't in their primary space which is a very small sealed room (the cabin of a car).

If you are open to playing with your system a little, we can help get you to a place where you may find better overall performance.
The decision is yours.
I'm not going to force anything on you if you are not interested.

 

[Pogre]

Did you say you have some measurements? How did 80 hz crossover look? What did the higher points look like when you were experimenting and sweeping?

Dropping your crossover below a trouble spot is the opposite of what I would suggest...