Speakers large or small?

[jamie2112]

Answer: Small. Done

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...should i have my speakers set to large or small...my center is a Polk CS1 with a Energy sub and energy surrounds.

Even the Energy flagship surround RC-R is rated @ 58Hz-23000Hz +/- 3dB, so I would set them to SMALL.

The CS1 is 65 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB, so I would also set it to SMALL.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

My speakers have a low extebsion of 28 Hz, I set them at small.....

 

[fastwahoo]

I am now set all into small, and i must admit everything mid wise sounds much more accurate.

 

[no. 5]

Another very big incentive to run all speakers as 'small' is that in room, bass does not behave the same as higher frequencies; what that means is even if you have five identical speakers that are capable of 110dB at 20Hz, the same bass signal (i.e. movie soundtrack, music, pink noise, etc) will sound different from each channel, simply because the location of each speaker is different. It is the unavoidable nature of room modes; different geometry between low frequency source(s), listening position(s), and room boundary's will cause large inconsistencies in bass response.

I believe I've even read that many receivers do 12db slope on the sub, and only 6db on the speaker outputs, as its assuming some natural roll-off already in the speaker.

I thought most receivers bass management was a 12dB/octave low pass, and 24dB/octave high pass.

 

[PENG]

Another very big incentive to run all speakers as 'small' is that in room, bass does not behave the same as higher frequencies; what that means is even if you have five identical speakers that are capable of 110dB at 20Hz, the same bass signal (i.e. movie soundtrack, music, pink noise, etc) will sound different from each channel, simply because the location of each speaker is different. It is the unavoidable nature of room modes; different geometry between low frequency source(s), listening position(s), and room boundary's will cause large inconsistencies in bass response.

That is one of the reasons why I will not waste money on expensive floor standing surround speakers. It is difficult to get the bass response right in a room with one speaker, let alone 8. You could even get less bass with that many speakers set to large.

 

[tom67]

Then why not simple tune the smaller box correctly and use a sub....not rocket science these days...

 

[The Dali]

If 99.9% of speakers should be set to "small" why even have the option on the amp? I know someone will say "for the other .01%" but that seems strange that there would be a setting that literally no one would ever use...

 

[mike c]

If 99.9% of speakers should be set to "small" why even have the option on the amp? I know someone will say "for the other .01%" but that seems strange that there would be a setting that literally no one would ever use...

for when you don't have a sub.



yes, 99.9% of speakers should be set to small

but i didn't say 99.9% of people should set their speakers to small

e.g. i have a receiver running my PC setup (i have my bookshelf speakers on large most of the time since i want to turn off the sub when i don't need it)

or when i finally get a dedicated sub for each channel [that can do 15hz in decent SPL], i'll be setting the channel to large and i'll have an external crossover to split the signal between the sub and mains.

 

[The Dali]

Duh!

Thanks, yes that makes sense!

 

[PENG]

or when i finally get a dedicated sub for each channel [that can do 15hz in decent SPL], i'll be setting the channel to large and i'll have an external crossover to split the signal between the sub and mains.

I need one more sub to be there (one sub for each of front, surround and surround rear), but not 15 hz. Even at 40 hz you are going to face major challenge in trying to tune all the subs in to avoid getting a peaky curve. I am going to do it too just for fun, but in theory I think we are better off setting all surrounds to small, crossover at 80 Hz and if we worry about not getting enough bass then get at least one of those dual driver (12 or 13") SVS subs, or get two of them and place them side by side.

 

[mike c]

i need 7 more

im not going to be doing the large thing in the near future though ...

right now, i'm adding subs the to the LCR, but still crossing at 80hz - so the dedicated subs would only play 80hz-adjust to taste

 

[PENG]

i need 7 more

im not going to be doing the large thing in the near future though ...

right now, i'm adding subs the to the LCR, but still crossing at 80hz - so the dedicated subs would only play 80hz-adjust to taste

One sub for each speaker? My front channels are big enough so I am going to end up with 3 subs, not 7, that's too crazy even by my standard.

 

[mike c]

One sub for each speaker? My front channels are big enough so I am going to end up with 3 subs, not 7, that's too crazy even by my standard.

ok, 6 max. the surround rears can share a sub due to their close proximity

avaserfi is building my center subwoofer right now (or he's busy posting in this forum, maybe i should ban him)

the left and right subwoofers are still being decided on.

 

[dssmith999]

I have listened with and w/o crossover and like w/o crossover. I would describe as smother and richer sound not a big difference. I have tryed several times and I always prefered no bass redirection. The crossover lets you get away with smaller amps and smaller speakers? Doesn’t one sub cause standing wave problems? Try it if you have strong amp and speakers that have good size woofer either way you like it. For my bass I have 12" dedicated LFE only sub and 4 10" woofers in each corner. On top of that 8 6.5" woofers all this could be overkill but no shortage of bass. Did I mention 5 bass shakers?

 

[mike c]

I have listened with and w/o crossover and like w/o crossover. I would describe as smother and richer sound not a big difference. I have tryed several times and I always prefered no bass redirection. The crossover lets you get away with smaller amps and smaller speakers? Doesn’t one sub cause standing wave problems? Try it if you have strong amp and speakers that have good size woofer either way you like it. For my bass I have 12" dedicated LFE only sub and 4 10" woofers in each corner. On top of that 8 6.5" woofers all this could be overkill but no shortage of bass. Did I mention 5 bass shakers?

that's a mean setup, do you have some pics?

 

[dssmith999]

Probably time to post some pics let me get the camera

 

[no. 5]

Doesn’t one sub cause standing wave problems?

Anything producing low frequencies (i.e. around 200Hz and below) will cause standing wave problems. It does not matter how many low frequency sources there are in a room, standing waves are unavoidable; it is how sound behaves in a small space.

Having multiple subwoofers driven by the bass from all the main channels and the LFE channel allows the best response possible for the most people with the minimal amount of EQ, a single subwoofer can only produce good bass for one person in the room.