Speakers for music without subwoofer - $1000ish or less

[jkozlow3]

Downsizing from a house into a small studio apartment (NYC) and ditching my 5.1 setup.

In my new setup, I don't want a subwoofer as I fear that's going to piss off my apartment dwelling neighbors. I'll use headphones for "loud" listening (i.e. movies), but need a good pair of speakers for music and TV listening at lower volumes. I will also be getting a center channel for TV watching but forgoing surrounds, but the purpose of this thread is to focus on a pair of speakers around $1000 or less that will be sufficient for music without a sub.

Details:
- Studio size will probably be in the neighborhood of 12x25 with the speakers and couch on the long walls (8-10 ft or so from ears to speakers).
- Willing to consider bookshelves or floorstanders. If I go with floorstanders however, the drivers need to be located in the top half of the cabinet, as they'll need to be placed on either side of my 22" high entertainment center without much room in-between the speaker and cabinet so I'm thinking drivers towards the bottom would be a bad idea. This would rule out something like the PSB Image T6 but maybe not the Image T5.
- Sealed or front ported speakers are a must, as they will be pretty close to the wall.
- 6ohm (nominal) at a minimum (my Denon 3311ci receiver is not rated to 4ohm).
- Good enough bass response for enjoyable music reproduction without a sub.
- I won't be listening too loudly or analytically - just lower volume music of various styles (pop, rock, folk, electronica/downtempo).

Ideas? Thanks!

 

[zieglj01]

Take a look at the GT1's
http://www.saturdayaudio.com/

 

[GranteedEV]

Downsizing from a house into a small studio apartment (NYC) and ditching my 5.1 setup.

In my new setup, I don't want a subwoofer as I fear that's going to piss off my apartment dwelling neighbors. I'll use headphones for "loud" listening (i.e. movies), but need a good pair of speakers for music and TV listening at lower volumes.

- Good enough bass response for enjoyable music reproduction without a sub.
Ideas? Thanks!

Properly set up, there's no reason you shouldn't want a sub. You just don't need a ton of output is all. A sub can still be useful for low level listening IMO.

I would get a rythmik F12 with a pair of Ascend Sierras or something.

 

[jkozlow3]

Take a look at the GT1's

Thanks, but the drivers on those are in the zone below the bottom 22". My entertainment stand is 22" tall and the speakers will be right next to it, so I'm thinking the drivers need to be 22" from the ground or higher.

Properly set up, there's no reason you shouldn't want a sub. You just don't need a ton of output is all. A sub can still be useful for low level listening IMO.

I would get a rythmik F12 with a pair of Ascend Sierras or something.

The Sierras are rear ported, so I don't think they'll work too well with the speakers being so close to the wall. Keep in mind that this is a very small studio apartment that I'm anticipating will be around 300 sq ft total and I have to fit an entertainment center, bed, couch, etc in there.

I'd consider a small sub with some small monitors if people think this will be a better setup for listening at low volumes vs. a speaker which goes low enough to be enjoyable for most music (40 Hz?). If I do go this route, I'd want to stick to a 14" cube or smaller (i.e. the new SVS 12" sealed sub, Velodyne Minivee, etc) and I would want speakers that are 7.5" wide or less so that I can fit them on either side of my TV on top of my entertainment stand, as I need to minimize the amount of floor space I take up. Either way, the speakers need to be front ported or sealed.

One of my reservations about going with a sub is that if someone comes over to watch a movie and I'm therefore not using headphones, some frequencies could be played that will really annoy my neighbors. That can't really happen too much if I'm using speakers with a -3db point of 40Hz. I'm also thinking that bookshelves will probably be better than floorstanders for not rattling the wood floors found in most NYC apartments.

 

[JerryLove]

There's too many to name... and since it's impossible to guess which imperfections will annoy you least I have to recommend you go audition.

I've got an old pair of PSB 400i's I ran sans sub for computer speakers that I found excellent. The Paradigm Studio 60v3's (I believe mine sold for $700) did pretty well sans sub. I do agree that bookshelves and a small sub may be an even better option for you as proper sub placement will help you keep the real volume down while maximizing what you hear.

 

[sholling]

The Sierras are rear ported, so I don't think they'll work too well with the speakers being so close to the wall. Keep in mind that this is a very small studio apartment that I'm anticipating will be around 300 sq ft total and I have to fit an entertainment center, bed, couch, etc in there.

I'd consider a small sub with some small monitors if people think this will be a better setup for listening at low volumes vs. a speaker which goes low enough to be enjoyable for most music (40 Hz?).

I'll start with the subwoofer - this is exactly where a small sealed sub like an Emotiva makes sense. They don't dig low but the bass is so clean. I have their Ultra 12 and they really don't have much output below 30hz and I think it might be the perfect choice. They make a smaller 10" but I haven't heard that one and I'd probably spend the extra $60 as future-proofing but that's just me - the Overkill Kid . You can make your sub even more neighbor friendly by putting it on a SubDude (or maybe 4 of these) to keep it isolated from the floor.

I'll toss out two speaker choices. The first is the Sierra-1. Ascend sells a port plug that all but eliminates anything from the port and makes them act like a sealed speaker. I use them with the plugs in my bedroom and they sound great. With the plugs in you'll crossover to the sub at 60hz.

A second far cheaper ($400/pr) choice is Usher's S-520. It's not in the same league as the Sierra-1 but it's a nice small 8ohm front ported speaker with a good clean sound. It's major weakness is that they can't deal with high output (the woofer can bottom) - but that's not a problem in your case. I'd cross these over at 80hz. Unfortunately should you decide to add a center later the matching center is 4ohm.

Comparing the above, the Usher's highs roll off a bit before the standard Sierra-1. The more future-proof Sierra-1's highs roll off a tiny bit early for my taste but if you can order the new NrT tweeter version or do the upgrade yourself they are pretty darn fantastic and these will still be viable if/when you eventually move to larger quarters. That said all of the above are pretty darn good.

You may also want to research methods to reduce sound transmission through the TV wall. There's a wealth of information on that site and maybe there's something that you'll find useful.

 

[FirstReflection]

Funny that others already mentioned the Ascend Sierra-1 speakers. Those instantly popped into my mind when I read your situation and budget.

For music alone, you can get away without a subwoofer with the Sierra-1 speakers. If you use them in ported mode, you only need about 3 inches of space from the back of the speakers to the wall behind them. You'll get some boundary reinforcement, of course, but that wouldn't be a bad thing if you run them without a sub. You can also use their port plug, as suggested above, in order to get a sealed response from them.

You can, indeed, still use a subwoofer in an apartment. Just be sure to decouple it from the floor! The majority of the thump-thump-boom-boom bass that annoys neighbors comes from structure-borne sound transmission. That is, the physical vibrations that carry the shaking of the subwoofer through the physical structure of the building itself! The air-borne sound waves will only excite a handful of resonant frequencies. So decouple your subwoofer and you will be able to use a subwoofer without bothering your neighbors much at all!

 

[zumbo]

3311 will run 4ohm. Leave receiver set to 8ohm. In an apartment you are not going to be cranking it anyway. Very respectable frequency response. I have three pair. Superb sound quality.

http://www.yawaonline.com/mbquql63tosp.html

 

[zieglj01]

Thanks, but the drivers on those are in the zone below the bottom 22". My entertainment stand is 22" tall and the speakers will be right next to it, so I'm thinking the drivers need to be 22" from the ground or higher.

Go back to Saturday Audio and check the GB1 bookshelf speakers.
They are front ported.
http://www.saturdayaudio.com/
Then here for the sub that sholling talked about.
You can control the volume.
http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub10.shtm

 

[3db]

Downsizing from a house into a small studio apartment (NYC) and ditching my 5.1 setup.

In my new setup, I don't want a subwoofer as I fear that's going to piss off my apartment dwelling neighbors. I'll use headphones for "loud" listening (i.e. movies), but need a good pair of speakers for music and TV listening at lower volumes. I will also be getting a center channel for TV watching but forgoing surrounds, but the purpose of this thread is to focus on a pair of speakers around $1000 or less that will be sufficient for music without a sub.

Details:
- Studio size will probably be in the neighborhood of 12x25 with the speakers and couch on the long walls (8-10 ft or so from ears to speakers).
- Willing to consider bookshelves or floorstanders. If I go with floorstanders however, the drivers need to be located in the top half of the cabinet, as they'll need to be placed on either side of my 22" high entertainment center without much room in-between the speaker and cabinet so I'm thinking drivers towards the bottom would be a bad idea. This would rule out something like the PSB Image T6 but maybe not the Image T5.
- Sealed or front ported speakers are a must, as they will be pretty close to the wall.
- 6ohm (nominal) at a minimum (my Denon 3311ci receiver is not rated to 4ohm).
- Good enough bass response for enjoyable music reproduction without a sub.
- I won't be listening too loudly or analytically - just lower volume music of various styles (pop, rock, folk, electronica/downtempo).

Ideas? Thanks!

I own the previous version Image T45s and I cannot say enough good about them The new Image series is supposedly better than the old. Ask the dealer if you could loan them out for in house demo. Your space restrictions will take its toll on most speakers.

 

[krzywica]

I would second the option for PSB towers. I just moved into an apartment and am running 2.0 for my main room and the PSB T55's are fantastic. I have found no need to add a sub as they go low enough to satisfy my ears and not oo low to piss off the neighbors. Well below your budget as well.

I haven't heard the new line but if they are anything like the previous line they make fantastic speakers.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1300735513&/PSB-Image-T5-Tower-Speakers-ne

 

[jkozlow3]

Thanks, I will definitely consider the PSB Image T5 towers. I'd really rather not go the sub route - just too worried about the bass becoming annoying for others.

What about something like the NHT Classic 3? Low enough to sound good without a sub? I like that they're sealed, as I really want to stay with sealed or front ported speakers to minimize placement issues as much as possible.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I recommend bass response down to about 38Hz, so I recommend the Infinity P363 speakers, which you can buy right here at the Audioholics Store:

http://store.audioholics.com/product/3304/0/infinity-primus-p363-floorstanding-speaker--each-

It has a very flat on and off-axis frequency response, which will make speaker placement and room acoustics more "forgiving" than speakers that don't have a great off-axis frequency reponse.

 

[caper26]

Energy RC are being cleared out at rediculously low prices.
RC-30 at vanns I think for $199 ea
RC-50 at wwstereo for $270ish ea
RC-70 - Hard to find now since clearance and everyone buying them up.
Check the specs on the energy website. You probably can't find a better speaker for those prices atm. good luck.

 

[jkozlow3]

Energy RC are being cleared out at rediculously low prices.
RC-30 at vanns I think for $199 ea
RC-50 at wwstereo for $270ish ea
RC-70 - Hard to find now since clearance and everyone buying them up.
Check the specs on the energy website. You probably can't find a better speaker for those prices atm. good luck.

Thanks for the continued suggestions. I'd rather not deal with rear ported speakers however, as I don't want to limit myself with placement issues now or in the future.

I'm still curious if anyone thinks the NHT Classic 3 (or similar) might be a good bookshelf for use without a sub. If I can find a 7.5" wide (or less) bookshelf speaker, I can fit them on either side of my TV on top of my entertainment stand. While this isn't mandatory, it would be nice since space will be limited in my small studio apartment. I really need to stick with sealed or front ported designs if I do that though.

 

[Chicagorep]

I don't have my 5.1 setup anymore, just 2.0 and I use it for TV and music. My speakers are Totem Rainmakers on stands. Often when listening to music I am amazed at how much low frequencies these speakers produce. I have them hooked up to a Parasound 2100 and a Parasound 5125. Thes speakers also have an amazing soundstage, when watching movies I often hear phantom side channels. It's pretty cool. You can find used Rainmakers for well under $1k.

 

[zieglj01]

I'm still curious if anyone thinks the NHT Classic 3 (or similar) might be a good bookshelf for use without a sub. If I can find a 7.5" wide (or less) bookshelf speaker, I can fit them on either side of my TV on top of my entertainment stand. While this isn't mandatory, it would be nice since space will be limited in my small studio apartment. I really need to stick with sealed or front ported designs if I do that though.

The Classic 3 would be a good one, or the PSB GB1

 

[caper26]

Thanks for the continued suggestions. I'd rather not deal with rear ported speakers however, as I don't want to limit myself with placement issues now or in the future..

They come with port plugs...

 

[zumbo]

I will try this one more time. 3311 will have no problem running a pair of 4ohm in an apartment.

Towers.
Real wood vaneer.
Front ported.
Excellent frequency response.
1k
http://www.yawaonline.com/mbquql63tosp.html

Impedance: 4 Ohms
Frequency Response: 33Hz - 32kHz
Sensitivity: (1 watt @ 3' ) 87dB
Tweeter: 1" Pure titanium, dome utilizing D-Link Isolation mounting
Woofers: Dual 6.25" polypropylene cone/composite cast basket
butyl rubber surround
Power Range: 110 - 180 Watts

 

[jkozlow3]

They come with port plugs...

...which significantly reduce the bass. I will not be using a sub.