Speakers for Large Music

[John Bailey]

I'm an ex-choir teacher. I like to listen to large orchestra/choir pieces like Bach's Mass in Bminor and Orff's Carmina Burana. I've always run into a problem with speakers not being able to handle the music when the choirs join the orchestra. The sound gets muddled up and doesn't sound detailed. I would like to audition speakers in the $1,000 range. Right now, I've sold my speakers because of an upcoming move, and I'm starting over. I'll have a larger room than my present 9x11 listening/office/extra bedroom setup. Don't know the size of the new room for sure, but it will be something like 12x15. The speakers will be powered by a NAD C320. I had PSB Image 2's and B&W 601's before and tend to like the PSB sound better.

Any specific suggestions for speakers, or, in general, what to look for.

Thanks for any input,

John

 

[MACCA350]

My suggestion would be to audition some towers, go to as many stores as possible and listen to as many as you can, you'll soon find some that appeal to you.

cheers

 

[John Bailey]

Thanks MACCA350.

Towers, as opposed to monitors, would give me more detail and definition then?

John

 

[MACCA350]

This is very dependent on which ones you compare. Some will argue that bookshelves(in general) will have more detail in the midrange and the only benefit of towers is extension in the bass region.

Personally I don't agree with that train of thought, while towers do extend the bass they normally have a larger complement of speakers which more often then not means that they will have separate drivers for midrange and bass whereas bookshelves normally have a single driver to cover both duties. Many towers also use a differently designed speaker for the midrange and bass allowing more specific design characteristics for such frequencies.

My opinion on this is based not only on what I've read and auditioned but also on comparing my towers and bookshelves(why do you think I also use a tower for my center channel). But as I said you should do some auditions and make up your own mind.

cheers

 

[wire]

Thanks MACCA350.

Towers, as opposed to monitors, would give me more detail and definition then?

John

Look for some older Polk SDA models . They can handle hords of power ( you will have to look for a bigger amp ) and the SDA effect will open up the soundstage .
Maybe some Klipcsh Lascalla's or Cornwalls (used) , with a Sunfire amp and Pre with Sonic hologram ( setup properly will open up the soundstage ) or Carver CT-7 pre (designed by Bob Carver himself) and a Carver 1.5T Amp (375w per channel) mightbe in your price range .

 

[markw]

Maybe a little over your budget, but worth it.

Although requiring a larger room than that 9 X 11 and more power than your NAD can muster, I've found that if you can live with their power and placement issues, Magnapan 1.6's do a VERY good job on choral music.

Although they don't have sub-sonic bass, they are among the most realistic reproducers of natural music that I've ever lived with.

But, they do play well with subwoofers if the lowest organ notes at window rattling levels are a must.

If room and $$ is an objection, they do offer smaller versions (12's and MMG's) but they will not play quite as satisfyingly loud.


(click on my system in the sig line)

 

[Davemcc]

I don't know, but I'd think that when you talk about choir music that there's going to be some element of pipe organ music there. For that, I think you'd want something with really low extension, even subsonic, to reproduce the lowest pipes. That sort of implies using a subwoofer, even with towers, since most towers <$1,000 won't extend that low. If you do decide to go with a sub anyway, it's not a stretch to find very fine bookshelves that still offer full sound.

 

[John Bailey]

The problem I've run into is not choir music alone, or orchestra music alone. My PSB Image 2B's were fine for that. (You can probably tell I'm more in to the listening aspect than the technical aspect.) It's when the two are combined that I loose the clarity.

This is for music only, no movies, and so I don't really need that thundering bass, just accurate bass. I had decided it was simply a matter of spending more money to get better speakers and more power if I was going to get what I wanted.

I have auditioned many speakers over the years. The only ones I liked that handled the Large Music situation were the PSB T6's and T8's - both way out of my price range. In addition they were both being powered by amplification in the $10's of $1,000's. I live in a rural area that is difficult to audition speakers. Since I seem to like the PSB sound, I'm hoping to audition some Image T55's and T65's. Can't find any just yet.

Another question. Might speakers with more drivers handle this type of music better, and what about 3 way vs. 2 way. I think that what MACCA350 is saying. In that case, something like the Axiom M60 might be a consideration - 3 way and separate mid and low's.

John

 

[Davemcc]

There was a dealer here that had a set of new previous model PSB towers in stock. If you're interested, I can see if they are still there, which model they are and if they are seriously discounted.

 

[WmAx]

The problem I've run into is not choir music alone, or orchestra music alone. My PSB Image 2B's were fine for that. (You can probably tell I'm more in to the listening aspect than the technical aspect.) It's when the two are combined that I loose the clarity.

This is for music only, no movies, and so I don't really need that thundering bass, just accurate bass. I had decided it was simply a matter of spending more money to get better speakers and more power if I was going to get what I wanted.

I have auditioned many speakers over the years. The only ones I liked that handled the Large Music situation were the PSB T6's and T8's - both way out of my price range. In addition they were both being powered by amplification in the $10's of $1,000's. I live in a rural area that is difficult to audition speakers. Since I seem to like the PSB sound, I'm hoping to audition some Image T55's and T65's. Can't find any just yet.

Another question. Might speakers with more drivers handle this type of music better, and what about 3 way vs. 2 way. I think that what MACCA350 is saying. In that case, something like the Axiom M60 might be a consideration - 3 way and separate mid and low's.

John

Try your speakers at 1/2 normal listening level and report back if you still hear the some sort of problem. If this fixes the problem, then the problem is non-linear distortion. If that is the case, then you need to find speakers with much higher sensitivity, or speakers using mulitple drivers. If that is not the case, then things are going to be more difficult for people in a remote location (internet users) to trouble shoot for you. At this point, I don't even know exactly what you are hearing, since you can only describe your interpretation of what you hear.

-Chris

 

[2Channel4Ever]

You may find that definitions of "accurate" bass differ widely. If you want to recreate the air being pushed by a pipe organ or an army of bass viols, you need a bigger budget

If you mean you want to avoid the boominess that many speakers under 1k produce, I have a few ideas:
Totem, Spendor, Rega.

None of the models in the 1k range will deliver earth-shattering bass, but all will produce accurate mids and airy highs. If adequately amplified, none should become congested in your size room at reasonable volumes.

My Regas smear the o fortuna a bit when I really crank things, but they stand up to Mahler and Holst on a weekly basis.

Good luck!

 

[B5I8]

Since I seem to like the PSB sound, I'm hoping to audition some Image T55's and T65's.

I think you should find a set to listen to. I've auditioned the T65's at a local store and found them to sound absolutely beautiful, especially for the price.

 

[John Bailey]

There was a dealer here that had a set of new previous model PSB towers in stock. If you're interested, I can see if they are still there, which model they are and if they are seriously discounted.

Thanks Dave, but I'm 250 mi. away from Detroit. Don't think I would go that far. Maybe I could give them a call though.

John

 

[John Bailey]

Thanks to all who've responded. You given me some good ideas. I've got some time before the planned move, so I'll try to find some multiple drivers floor-standers, possibly 3-way. I'll also try the 1/2 volume technique to see if that helps. I don't normally listen that loud, but maybe I'm just pushing things too hard.

John

 

[j_garcia]

Have you thought about adding a sub to what you have? I do think your limiting factor here is the speakers - relatively small speakers aren't necessarily going to give you the "biggest" sound, but perhaps it is just bass that you are missing out on. When you have a small speaker and try to put a full range signal through it, distortion will happen sooner rather than later.

 

[PENG]

I'm an ex-choir teacher. I like to listen to large orchestra/choir pieces like Bach's Mass in Bminor and Orff's Carmina Burana. I've always run into a problem with speakers not being able to handle the music when the choirs join the orchestra. The sound gets muddled up and doesn't sound detailed. I would like to audition speakers in the $1,000 range.

I think you will do well with speakers that are designed to sound neutral and natural. $1K will unlikely get you what you want unless you are lucky enough to find something in the used market, e.g. Polk's SDA as wire suggested.

If the PSB T6 exceeds your budget, you may want to audition some of the Energy speakers. I have not listened to their newer models but their old model Connoisseur C8 (around $1k/pair if you can find them) can certainly do justice to Orff's Carmina Burana.

 

[morkys]

I have the PSB T65's. I previously had the 6T's. I imagine you should really like the T65's or T55's. The nice thing about these speakers is they extract alot of sound per $. They are rated at 6 ohms with a 4 ohm minimum, so they put out more power than 8 ohm speakers, but aren't as hard of a load as a pair of 4 ohm speakers. Also, they are very efficient. I suppose there are better speakers out there, but for the money, you get alot of power and sound quality. I would be surprised if you bought the T65's and were disappointed. Try and listen to a few other speakers if you like, but keep in mind the efficiency of the PSB Image speakers adds to the clarity and not many speakers are as efficient and as well designed.

The problem I've run into is not choir music alone, or orchestra music alone. My PSB Image 2B's were fine for that. (You can probably tell I'm more in to the listening aspect than the technical aspect.) It's when the two are combined that I loose the clarity.

This is for music only, no movies, and so I don't really need that thundering bass, just accurate bass. I had decided it was simply a matter of spending more money to get better speakers and more power if I was going to get what I wanted.

I have auditioned many speakers over the years. The only ones I liked that handled the Large Music situation were the PSB T6's and T8's - both way out of my price range. In addition they were both being powered by amplification in the $10's of $1,000's. I live in a rural area that is difficult to audition speakers. Since I seem to like the PSB sound, I'm hoping to audition some Image T55's and T65's. Can't find any just yet.

Another question. Might speakers with more drivers handle this type of music better, and what about 3 way vs. 2 way. I think that what MACCA350 is saying. In that case, something like the Axiom M60 might be a consideration - 3 way and separate mid and low's.

John

 

[Maceo23]

If you are not completely against a subwoofer, then a good possibility would be to pair a set of Ascend Acoustic CMT-340's with a sub. SVS, HSU, And AV123 have models that would bring you in around your budget. The Ascends are not the most visually stunning speaker (personally I like the simple look) but perform beautifully. If you want accuracy, these are definately for you. Some would say that they are acurate to a fault.

 

[John Bailey]

On the idea of using a sub, I had a sub at one time, can't remember which model, but it was a PSB, and I was able to improve the sound considerably. So, I'm not against the use of a sub at all. The thing I didn't like about the sub was I had to keep adjusting it all the time. I seemed to have to switch the crossover whenever I changed from orchestra to choir to classic rock, and fool around with the volume. Remeber, I have a 9x11 room as I suspect that may have had something to do with it. Overall, I liked the sound better with the sub, but I just got tired of having to adjust all the time. So, the question would be, if I get the right sub, with the right room set-up, will I be able to keep the same settings without all the adjustments?

John

 

[billnchristy]

Can I ask what recordings of the pieces you mentioned you were listening to?

I tried a couple versions on my DIY Jordan bookshelfs last night and the recordings didnt seem super dynamic to me.

These speakers really excell at piano and orchestra music but the recordings seemed kind of flat.