MacManNM

MacManNM

Banned
Nick250 said:
I seriously doubt it oxidizes enough to have any effect on the performances of the speakers over time. However the next time I am at my Dad's house with my brother, (who is an EE btw) I will take a look at his speaker connections and report back. They were connected by bare wire about 20 years ago to a really nice they don't build them like that any more Mac reciever.

I'm getting a little tired of this. Don't believe any of us? How about someone with decades of experience? Roger Russell is one of the pioneers of the audio industry (including desining a plethora of McIntosh equipment). This is what he says:

Speaker and Amplifier Connectors

The connection between the power amplifier output terminals and speaker input terminals is almost always a pressure device of some sort. It's unfortunate that these important connections are determined by to how tight you can turn a binding post or screwdriver or by the pressure of a spring which holds the speaker wire against the metal of the terminal. The metals that are forced against each other are often different. They might be brass or steel but plated with other metals. The wire could be copper or silver and perhaps coated with solder containing tin. They expand and contract differently with temperature. They can also become oxidized over time and the connection can become bad to the point where the resistance is significant compared to the resistance in the rest of the circuit. Dissimilar metals can also promote corrosion with action like a battery when they are in a humid environment. This eventually causes not only higher resistance but also clearly audible distortion as if a diode were inserted in series with the speaker and amplifier.

Suppose you have a system with adequately heavy speaker wire but the connections have gone bad over time. Simply removing and cleaning the wires and terminals and reconnecting them can make an audible difference. Incidentally, this is what can happen if the old wire is replaced with a new "miracle" speaker wire. By disturbing the terminals this can "accidentally" improve the contacts when the new wire with its clean surface is installed. A difference can be heard but not because of the new wire. The same change can be heard by simply cleaning the old wire/terminal contacts and reconnecting them.

Ah, you say gold plating takes care of all that. That isn't always true, particularly if the wire is tinned with solder, which is at least 50% tin, and the connecting post is gold plated. Here's what J. J. Whitley, Research Associate at AMP Incorporated (a well-known connector manufacturer) has to say about mating tin-plated contacts with gold. "In most cases, lubricated tin contacts can be mated with gold-plated contacts. This combination works as long as the conditions of contact force and stability for tin contacts are met."

"There is one major exception--where the service conditions involve wet or humid environments. Under these conditions, the gold-tin bimetallic junction is subject to galvanic corrosion. Generous application of protective lubrication is one way to alleviate this problem."

It would seem logical that instead of connecting the output wires inside the power amplifier to the output terminals, the wires should be wrapped and soldered directly to the speaker wires. Then, in turn, the other end of the speaker wires should be wrapped and soldered directly to the speakers, or crossover network. This is not practical, of course, unless the amplifier and speaker are integrated in the same cabinet.

For the truth about speaker wire, see my Speaker Wire History Page.
 
P

Privateer

Full Audioholic
I agree with Nick250 because I just looked at my dads speakers which have had a bare wire connection for the last 25 years and I see no signs of oxidation. Now that does not mean it can not happen because I live in a very dry climate.
 
MacManNM

MacManNM

Banned
Privateer said:
I agree with Nick250 because I just looked at my dads speakers which have had a bare wire connection for the last 25 years and I see no signs of oxidation. Now that does not mean it can not happen because I live in a very dry climate.

Just because you can't see it, it doesn't mean it's not there. Just by taking the wires off and looking at them you may have sufficiently cleaned them and restored the sound. Climate plays a part, as dose type of metal. I have personally experienced this buildup affect the sound. That is one of the biggest reasons people “hear” a difference when they replace their speaker wire. It’s simply cleaner and making a better connection.
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
25 years, eh?

Privateer said:
I agree with Nick250 because I just looked at my dads speakers which have had a bare wire connection for the last 25 years and I see no signs of oxidation. Now that does not mean it can not happen because I live in a very dry climate.
You're telling me if you cut the positive wire back an inch and re-twist it, it's as bright as the negative side? C'mon. 25 years? It will lose it's shine after 6 months. I bet your dad notices a difference in the high notes if you do this to one speaker and not the other. Perfect time for an experiment since you don't believe us. He knows his speakers. Let him decide. If your father doesn't want banana plugs after he does notice a difference, put some Dielectric Grease around the new twisted tips. That will keep the wires from oxidizing so quickly. Audioholics also recommends this product for the other interconnects.
 
Last edited:
P

Privateer

Full Audioholic
So we would then have to seal the entire length of wire. What about every other connection inside your electronics? I highly doubt every wire inside a piece of hardware is sealed from the atmosphere.
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
Privateer said:
So we would then have to seal the entire length of wire. What about every other connection inside your electronics? I highly doubt every wire inside a piece of hardware is sealed from the atmosphere.
They are all soldered ends! Open up a speaker. A receiver. A clock radio. Where is this going?
 

Attachments

P

Privateer

Full Audioholic
They are all soldered ends! Open up a speaker. A receiver. A clock radio. Where is this going?
There is still bare wire exposed to atmosphere and oxidation can take place.
 
P

Privateer

Full Audioholic
Bart has had enough.
So now oxidation only takes place were the matterial directly contacts the speaker binding post? Give it a rest there buddy you are going around in circles.
 
P

Privateer

Full Audioholic
Buckeyefan 1 no reply or are you done with your BS oxidation speech?
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
Read post #24 again, and let the brains of the family decide. Obviously you know way too much.
 
P

Privateer

Full Audioholic
Read post #24 again, and let the brains of the family decide. Obviously you know way too much.
No it is your personal preferance for using a soldered connection over bare wire.
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
Privateer said:
No it is your personal preferance for using a soldered connection over bare wire.
I never said to solder a connection. I said to cut back his wire and re-twist it, then simply reinstall it in the speaker and amp terminals. First, tell me if the copper color is different when you strip it. Next, have him decide if there is any difference in sound. If there's no difference in the brightness of the copper after 25 years, you win. If the sound does not improve, you win. I stripped copper wires that were 12 years old. They were brown. Unless your dad lives in the Sahara Dessert, they will have some oxidation and loss of resistance. Copper does that. Some metals oxidize quicker than others. Plus, I doubt you will find any bare wire in any of your components.
 
porksoda

porksoda

Audioholic Intern
BF1 is right... speaker wire oxidizes and if you have a keen ear you can tell a tiny change of sound... e.g from crappy home depot wire to a good multi strand no-oxygen cable..

I have ultralink audiophile cables on my system and its multi strand i dont remember how many in each wire...

but after a while the bare wire would oxidize.

Buckeyefan 1 said:
I never said to solder a connection. I said to cut back his wire and re-twist it, then simply reinstall it in the speaker and amp terminals. First, tell me if the copper color is different when you strip it. Next, have him decide if there is any difference in sound. If there's no difference in the brightness of the copper after 25 years, you win. If the sound does not improve, you win. I stripped copper wires that were 12 years old. They were brown. Unless your dad lives in the Sahara Dessert, they will have some oxidation and loss of resistance. Copper does that. Some metals oxidize quicker than others. Plus, I doubt you will find any bare wire in any of your components.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
porksoda said:
if you have a keen ear you can tell a tiny change of sound... e.g from crappy home depot wire to a good multi strand no-oxygen cable.. .

HUH??? What are you trying to claim here or say???

That you can audibly differentiate between Home Depot wire and your wire?

How and why is HD wire crappy???
 
MacManNM

MacManNM

Banned
mtrycrafts said:
HUH??? What are you trying to claim here or say???

That you can audibly differentiate between Home Depot wire and your wire?

How and why is HD wire crappy???

For once I agree with you. Anyone who thinks they can hear a difference in speaker wire is full of crap. Same gauge, same sound.
 
HookedOnSound

HookedOnSound

Full Audioholic
Buckeyefan 1 said:
You're telling me if you cut the positive wire back an inch and re-twist it, it's as bright as the negative side? C'mon. 25 years? It will lose it's shine after 6 months. I bet your dad notices a difference in the high notes if you do this to one speaker and not the other. Perfect time for an experiment since you don't believe us. He knows his speakers. Let him decide. If your father doesn't want banana plugs after he does notice a difference, put some Dielectric Grease around the new twisted tips. That will keep the wires from oxidizing so quickly. Audioholics also recommends this product for the other interconnects.
Out of curiosity, where can you purchase Dielectric Grease?

Thanks,
 
MacManNM

MacManNM

Banned
HookedOnSound said:
Out of curiosity, where can you purchase Dielectric Grease?

Thanks,
Any automotive parts store, or electronics supply company.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
MacManNM said:
For once I agree with you. Anyone who thinks they can hear a difference in speaker wire is full of crap. Same gauge, same sound.

I knew the probability of agreement was just around the corner :D
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I agree with Buckeyefan

Reading between the lines, tinning the ends of bare speakerwire is analogous to soldering them into bananna plugs and it does help prevent corosion from the atmoshpehere. It also reduces the corosion effect of disimilar metals if the binding posts are similar in chemcial make up as solder.

People under estimate the effects of oxidation. Imagine a ground wire oxidizing and becomming highly resisitive. Plays real havoc on the functionality of the circuits.

McManns post, #21, supports what Buckeye has been saying along.
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top