Speaker & Sub Audition Begins

S

sahihai

Junior Audioholic
Hello Everyone,
Finally I have all the components to begine testing. Following is the list of stuff I have now:

SVS PB12-NSD
Axiom M3
Axiom M22
Axiom M50
Axiom M60
Axiom QS4
Axiom QS8
Axiom VP100
Axiom VP150
HK AVR 240 Receiver
Monoprice 12 ft Sub Cable
Radioshack 16 ga speaker wires
Radioshack SPL meter
Avia HT setup DVD

My wife is little pissed because I have moved all the furniture around in trying to setup the speakers. This has been a slow and difficult process for me. Being my first HT setup, I have to go through all the details of setting up the receiver, fine tuning the settings for speaker and subs.
All I did till now was put everything together (tested M3, M60, QS4, VP 100 and VP 150 along with the Sub) and play some music and movies. The default result has been average, but I plan on going through the detailed setup over the next few days and hope that the experience will be mind blowing.
Any inputs you guys have about what settings I should use will be appreciated. My concern is the making sure that the Sub gets set up properly because till now the results have been plain OK. I shall keep updating this thread with my subjective opinion about the speakers.
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
Whats the big

deal. Xbox weasel has 2 houses full.:p
PS: my wife would of packed my bags at the door along with the speakers:D .
 
N

Nick250

Audioholic Samurai
To keep things as even as possible, I suggest setting all speakers to small and crossed over at 80Hz. Getting a sub setup correctly is often difficult. You may want to get that worked out before you proceed with you listening tests. Subs are very location sensitive. I am pretty sure there is a sub setup guide here on AH.

It's great that you are sharing the testing with us. Thanks.

Nick
 
jlcct

jlcct

Junior Audioholic
sahihai said:
Hello Everyone,
Finally I have all the components to begine testing. Following is the list of stuff I have now:

SVS PB12-NSD
Axiom M3
Axiom M22
Axiom M50
Axiom M60
Axiom QS4
Axiom QS8
Axiom VP100
Axiom VP150
HK AVR 240 Receiver
Monoprice 12 ft Sub Cable
Radioshack 16 ga speaker wires
Radioshack SPL meter
Avia HT setup DVD

Dude, that's crazy. Where will you get the time to test all that stuff.
I recommend trying them all in the bathroom at the same time.

On a serious note, since you're going all out, I have an extra pair of QS8's that I bought for when I get a larger room. You know for 7.1. But I was thinking about trying to put them on the stands and placing them up front with the M80's to see what the sound stage would become. It's sort of a wild idea and by no means acousticaly accurate but with the mids firing up and down it could be an experience.
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
I'm thinking he is leaning towards Axiom but is unsure of which particular models so he ordered them all and after auditioning will send back the ones he doesn't want.
 
B

bandit

Audioholic
You mentioned having to move around the furniture.... I don't think I'd have any room left for furniture.

ps. I bet the delivery guy dislikes you.

Is it your plan to keep all of this?
 
S

sahihai

Junior Audioholic
This is really tiring!

Tom,
I did take pics every step of the way. I will be posting them eventually. This process has been so crazy and tiring that I cant keep up with myself. Look forward to making good progress this weekend (if my wife doesnt divorce me by then)

Nick250,
As a starting point I ran the EZ Setup using the HK mike which comes with AVR 240. The process by itself is very simple...I installed the mike on a tripod and let the setup run. The receiver sends bunch of tones to each speaker and calibrates the entire setup which includes speaker size, crossover, channel strength etc. The end result was much better than day 1 when I tried playing stuff on non-calibrated system. You are right about the Sub. Its going to be the biggest challenge. Right now I have kept it in the left corner of the room.

Jlcct,
Yep, I am going to go crazy for the next 30 days. Your idea sounds wild but interesting. If I get to the point of finalizing my speakers soon, then I will probably experiment a little with such a notion :)

BillnChristy,
Based on the research I did, Axioms stood out in terms of cost and specs. One thing to note here is that I looked at Axiom as the limit I could stretch for now. So I didnt consider some of the step ups like Paradigm. BUT, I located stores near my house which carry those speakers. So once I ve spent good amount of time with these speakers, I shall visit the store for an audition of something different. Also, I did listen to Klipsch, Polk and JBL in the brand stores before I started researching on Axioms.

MDS, bandit,
I shall keep the ones I like, atleast one pair from each category (bookshelf, floor standing etc). I spent about 2 months going back and forth on which ones would be the best and still couldnt decide. So one night, I just went ahead and ordered all the ones that I was considering. If auditioning the speakers is the way to go, then that's what I am going to do. Its painful now, but given that I may not be replacing speakers for a few years to come, I gotta go all the way.

The delivery guy was actually curious as to what I was going to do with so many speakers. What blew his noodle was that the 14 pieces he delivered to my place did not include the Sub :)

TESTING:
Based on just the HK's EZ Setup, I started testing the speakers. Now I took a little different route here. I started with the best set up first - VP150, M60, QS8. I wanted to set the bar high and then climb down the performance ladder so that I am not pyschologically forced to think that if I move from smaller to bigger speakers they perform better.
Since I completed the setup and placing of all speakers by evening, I did not run the tests for long because my neighbors were back from their work.
Based on the DVDs I had with me I tested Matrix, Return of the King, Crouching Tiger...& Black Hawk Down. With just an automated calibration, I would say that it was an awesome experience. The only difference I heard was among different movies and that's probably based on the recording. I jumped to specific scenes on these DVDs. For Matrix I ran the sequence starting from the building security shootout till the rescue of Morpheus. The sound was superb. Particulary the background music during the security shootout and the LFE from the Gatling gun on the helicopter.
For Return of the King, I played scenes from all over and the final battle scence is amazing. But what I enjoyed the most was the soundtrack when the beacons are lit.
The night fight in Crouching Tiger.. and the opening scenes in Black Hawk Down sounded good too.
Overall movie experience was very good, though I see a lot of room for improvement. I look forward to some manual changes to the settings. But I can definitely see that Axioms are built for HT.
Music is where I am struggling a bit. The M60s running on the stereo mode along with the Sub wasnt exactly a mind blowing experience. Dont read me wrong, the music sounds terrific, but there is something missing which I am not able to point out yet. I would expect that when you listen to your favorite tracks and if the sound system is really good, it almost gives you goose bumps. In this case, the music was great, but not the goose bump phenomenon. This is where I am going to research the most. Any suggestions from you guys is most welcome.
Note that this is my first HT setup and I dont have a dedicated HT room. I am a novice in this domain and that's why there is not a whole lot of technical data associated to my tests. Maybe I ll get there after a while. For now, back to reading the manuals. :)
 
jlcct

jlcct

Junior Audioholic
Just a sugjestion. For the front speakers try placement without toe-in. I have the M80's and this was a huge difference. I don't know if the same will apply with the 60's or not but at least give it a shot.
 
S

sahihai

Junior Audioholic
The trials continue...

Over the last 2 days, I focussed on the placement of the Sub and played around with the receiver settings and calibrated using Avia disc. After switching around with different speakers randomly over the past few days, I set down to using specific combinations today.
My first test used M3, VP100, QS4. Sub was common for all combos, of course. Then keeping center and the surround same, I switched to M22. Thereafter, M50 and finally M60. In the beginning I also did speaker A to B comparison. Following are my observations:
1. No surprises here, in terms of overall performance, M60 is the best out of the group followed by M50, M3 and M22, in that order.
2. If the brightness of speakers refers to the sharp, high treble envelope, then yes Axioms are very bright. In one of the other post, someone mentioned that Axioms are laid back. If that is the case, I would never touch speakers which are brighter than Axiom (IMO). But then again, I gotta make sure that brightness for me is based on the same definition for others. I found that M22 are the brightest, then M3, M50 and M60, in that order.
3. IMO, Axioms are absolutely superb for HT application (movies), I am not sure about music though. There is something missing in the musical output with a typical stereo mode setup. I remember using a pair of Pioneer speakers a 10-12 years ago which had an everlasting impression on me. The music was so balanced - had the right amount of sharpness, the right amount of weight (or extension) and overall a smoother, engaging music. This may not be apples to apples, but I am searching for a similar experience. I firmly believe that Axiom have it in them, is just a matter of digging it out.
Meanwhile, Axioms are a definite winner for the movies and M60 is the best (I would love to hear the M80 someday). I can keep playing my favorite movies again and again on these speakers. For those who are looking for bookshelf speakers, I would strongly recommend M3. I was greatly impressed by what it can do for its size.
Finally, not to forget the Sub. PB2-NSD has done well to fill my room with just 1/3 rd of the gain. It delivers. The punch is right and as I work on the Phase and some other settings, I am expecting that its going to get better.

Along with working on the music settings, I am going to start testing the center and surrounds next.

Testing material:
Matrix: Lobby shooting and Gatling gun shooting
Matrix Revolutions: APU fight scene
Star Wars episode 3: Opening scene
Finding Nemo: Attack on Corel and Torpedo explosion
GNR: Sweet Child o mine
GNR: Knocking on Heaven's door
Metallica: Metallica Album
Chamillinaire: Ridin Dirty
Outkast: various tracks

I went through the above list for each speaker and tried making notes of how the performance was. The instrument used to measure the performance were my ears.

A few Settings:
Overall sound level: 72-75 dB
Crossover (Hz): L/R-80, Center-100, Surround-100

Size:
1. For movie - Speakers-Small, Sub-On
2. For music - Stereo mode, L/R-Small, Sub-On
3. For music - Stereo mode, L/R-Large, Sub-Off
Note: Switching the Sub ON and OFF while doing the music testing made a lot of difference in understanding the performance of each model. With the Sub, all speakers sounded great.

Tone:
Bass: +2db
Treble: -2db

Channel Strength:
L/R: +1 db
All other speakers: 0 db
 
D

dentman67

Audioholic Intern
Your right about the Axioms being a bright speaker .

When doing any tests it's very important to make sure all listening levels are the same . A 1db diffrence between speakers is enough to sway the outcome . Also you should never use any tone controlls or auto EQ features .
 
S

sahihai

Junior Audioholic
Final Setup

Okay guys,
It took a while, but looks like I am done. My final set...

M60, VP150, QS8 (no surprises here :)

Work schedule has been heavy, hence could not write a whole lot earlier. Also since this thread was more for speakers than about the Sub, I think its misplaced. So if anything new comes up, i shall open a thread in under the Speakers section. Meanwhile, check out my comments in this other thread for what went on during auditioning.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=223273&postcount=26
 
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