speaker stands?

[Dr. Parthipan]

How do they improve a speakers sound? What improvements can you expect?

 

[j_garcia]

They get your bookshelf speaker off the floor. Ideally what you want is a stand that gets your tweeters at ear level in your listening position. The stand itself does not "improve" the sound of the speaker, as that is not what it is designed for; it is a stand.

 

[Dr. Parthipan]

They get your bookshelf speaker off the floor. Ideally what you want is a stand that gets your tweeters at ear level in your listening position. The stand itself does not "improve" the sound of the speaker, as that is not what it is designed for; it is a stand.

So all the hifi reviews are wrong and people that buy special stands are being fooled are they? There are high mass stands which seem to affect the bass response. How? Better stands may keep the speaker more still also affecting the sound. I dont know how it all works and that is what I am trying to find out.

 

[Dr. Parthipan]

Partington Heavi review from the experts at whathifi.com

heres a quote from a review of a high quality stand:

As soon as your speakers hit these stands, the Partington signature is obvious: bags of headroom, a solid soundstage, warmth and detail in the midrange, and deep bass sure to get your pulse racing in no time

 

[j_garcia]

So all the hifi reviews are wrong and people that buy special stands are being fooled are they?

Yes, it is called marketing. "Reviews" of stands that claim audio benefits should be avoided. I use some small glass end tables as surround stands and they work exactly as well as my other stands. My stands actually cost less than the tables, but I already had the tables so...

These:

Sound the same as these (yes, same speaker in both cases):

 

[Swerd]

Partington Heavi review from the experts at whathifi.com

heres a quote from a review of a high quality stand:

As soon as your speakers hit these stands, the Partington signature is obvious: bags of headroom, a solid soundstage, warmth and detail in the midrange, and deep bass sure to get your pulse racing in no time

I'm not at all sure about altering a speaker's headroom, soundstage, etc., but any bookshelf speaker I've known was designed so it does not sit on the floor.

Besides getting the tweeters to about ear level, the stands lift the woofer a good distance above the floor. The woofer is lifted above a reflecting surface reducing the overall bass reinforcement, much like pulling a speaker away from a wall or corner. Another benefit is that lifting the woofer changes the frequency and intensity of the floor bounce that the listener will hear. More than likely, it is what the speaker designer intended. This will result in easily audible changes in the quality of bass and the midrange detail.

As long as a stand doesn't wobble, vibrate, or resonate, no other audible magic happens.

 

[j_garcia]

To add to that, stands generally have a smaller top platform than the footprint of the speaker itself. This is desirable for the same reason why you don't want the drivers sitting right next to the floor or wall: you don't want that sound reflecting directly off the surface of whatever the speaker is sitting on. Example: You have a speaker sitting on top of a cabinet and it is 8" back from the front edge. The entire area around the front of the speaker is immediately reflecting your sound up and out and this will affect what you hear considerably. Pull that same speaker right out to the edge and that reflection is more or less removed.

 

[JerryLove]

Not presenting an extended baffle (solid front) or reflection/diffraction point (sticking out past the bottom of the speaker) would indeed seem to be one important and potentially sound-altering trait of a stand.

Other than that and not rattling; I can't think of much effect I would expect a stand to have. They should (and do in my experience) all sound the same.

 

[Dr. Parthipan]

Not presenting an extended baffle (solid front) or reflection/diffraction point (sticking out past the bottom of the speaker) would indeed seem to be one important and potentially sound-altering trait of a stand.

Other than that and not rattling; I can't think of much effect I would expect a stand to have. They should (and do in my experience) all sound the same.

Its often reported that higher mass stands give you extra bass extension. Its not physically possible to lower the bass extension but it is perceived to happen and requires investigation as to what could cause such a perception. The stands often are fillable with sand too to experiment with the bass weight. This is different to the snake oil used to market audio cables.

 

[Dr. Parthipan]

There is also the claim that stands remove cabinet vibrations and dampen them which then affects what you hear. This does not seem unreasonable and requires investigation to ascertain the truth.

 

[j_garcia]

That would be a sympathetic resonance in the stand IMO. Sand would serve to remove that resonance somewhat, resulting in the altering of the sound, but IMO, the speaker should be decoupled completely from the stand because the stand should NOT be part of the sound. If it is, then it is adding something that should not be there. I use Auralex MoPads to decouple my speakers from the stands like what you see in the second pic with the table.

Stands do not remove cabinet resonance. If you don't want cabinet resonance, then you get a speaker that minimizes it, not a stand.

 

[mtrycrafts]

So all the hifi reviews are wrong and people that buy special stands are being fooled are they?

Why not? How are those reviewers immune from passing on nonsense??? How is this different than cable snake oil claims???

There are high mass stands which seem to affect the bass response. How? Better stands may keep the speaker more still also affecting the sound. I dont know how it all works and that is what I am trying to find out.

How much would your speakers move in the first place? Yes, my chess board on top of my sub does move pieces a bit but why would that be audible if the pieces themselves don't make a sound and, even if it did, would you hear such a low level sound while the sub is projecting 100 dB spl??? I think not.
May want to ask for credible evidence from those reviewers. After all, they are the ones presenting a testable claim with no credible evidence. They have the burden of evidence, no???

Partington Heavi review from the experts at whathifi.com

heres a quote from a review of a high quality stand:

As soon as your speakers hit these stands, the Partington signature is obvious: bags of headroom, a solid soundstage, warmth and detail in the midrange, and deep bass sure to get your pulse racing in no time

No evidence for this bs.

Its often reported that higher mass stands give you extra bass extension. Its not physically possible to lower the bass extension but it is perceived to happen and requires investigation as to what could cause such a perception. The stands often are fillable with sand too to experiment with the bass weight. This is different to the snake oil used to market audio cables.

Again, no evidence is given. Perception is not necessarily reality or factual. As for real evidence besides just a simple claim. And no, sighted listening will not do for this.

There is also the claim that stands remove cabinet vibrations and dampen them which then affects what you hear. This does not seem unreasonable and requires investigation to ascertain the truth.

Which vibrations? Whole cabinet movement back and forth or the panels own vibration from a lack of internal bracing?
If the former, Get an explanation how this happens. What is the threshold of movement that is audible with music in a listening room. Good luck.

 

[Steve81]

I use some small glass end tables as surround stands and they work exactly as well as my other stands. My stands actually cost less than the tables, but I already had the tables so...

Yes, but your cheap stands are hardly of the same quality as the Partingtons referenced above. Think of the bags of headroom, a solid soundstage, warmth and detail in the midrange, and deep bass sure to get your pulse racing in no time you could add to your setup!

 

[TLS Guy]

In addition to getting the speaker the correct height, the stand must be non resonant and have reasonable mass. It must not be wobbly or tippy.

Bookshelf speakers are often relatively light. This means the stands should be at least as heavy or preferably a bit heavier then the speaker. Don't forget there to every force there is an equal and opposite reaction. The acceleration forces on a cone are significant. So a very light weight poorly anchored stand can make a speaker loose bass, but a stand will never increase it.

 

[Steve81]

It must not be wobbly or tippy...So a very light weight poorly anchored stand can make a speaker loose bass, but a stand will never increase it.

Not to mention such a stand would be a problem if you've got youngsters running around.

 

[Dr. Parthipan]

In addition to getting the speaker the correct height, the stand must be non resonant and have reasonable mass. It must not be wobbly or tippy.

Bookshelf speakers are often relatively light. This means the stands should be at least as heavy or preferably a bit heavier then the speaker. Don't forget there to every force there is an equal and opposite reaction. The acceleration forces on a cone are significant. So a very light weight poorly anchored stand can make a speaker loose bass, but a stand will never increase it.

Again, no evidence is given. Perception is not necessarily reality or factual. As for real evidence besides just a simple claim. And no, sighted listening will not do for this.

if your read what someone wrote before you, you will see it is not consistent with what you write. So where is the evidence? One person says there is no difference and its all snake oil. You believe differently. Whats the truth?

 

[TLS Guy]

if your read what someone wrote before you, you will see it is not consistent with what you write. So where is the evidence? One person says there is no difference and its all snake oil. You believe differently. Whats the truth?

OK. Buy a cheap wobbly lite weight speaker stand and get ready to pick your speaker up from the floor, with a ding or two.

Its simple physics. If the speaker is heavier than the stand it will be top heavy. The speaker should have a good substantial broad base also.

If the stand is light and unstable enough then as the cone is driven forwards, the speaker will move backwards. That is simple Newtonian physics, but I doubt you have heard of him.

 

[Steve81]

That is simple Newtonian physics, but I doubt you have heard of him.

Didn't he create Fig Newtons?

 

[Alex2507]

Whats the truth?

The truth? The truth is that I remember you for the troll you really are.

This has been a Public Service Announcement.

 

[Adam]

Didn't he create Fig Newtons?

Reminds me of the first time that I bought figs. I was in my mid-30s, thought that I'd never had them before, took a bite and thought, "Huh, these taste really familiar. What is it?" A few seconds later, "Hmmm, they taste like..."

And then the light bulb came on.