Speaker size settings and Subwoofer

[RMK!]

or does it matter?

 

[shokhead]

Basic setup would be all to small and 80Hz x over and 75-80db on speaker level on both. Then you can play and tweak as you want. LEE and not LFE+Mains for the 3805.

 

[warpdrive]

Yes, all speakers should be set to small unless your speakers cost as much as a small car. Few speakers should be set to LARGE.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

If you set your front speakers to large, your sub will not perform as efficiently. You are better off setting all the speakers to small and the crossover to at least 80hz, if not 100hz and let the small speakers do the delicate work. It also improves the efficiency of the receiver, and allows more power to be used to the higher end frequencies when it's especially needed during those HT bursts and blasts, as well as that demanding classical music.

 

[shokhead]

If you set your front speakers to large, your sub will not perform as efficiently. You are better off setting all the speakers to small and the crossover to at least 80hz, if not 100hz and let the small speakers do the delicate work. It also improves the efficiency of the receiver, and allows more power to be used to the higher end frequencies when it's especially needed during those HT bursts and blasts, as well as that demanding classical music.

Doesnt effect the efficiently of the sub because its still doing the same thing but your speakers are ttrying to do it also,right?

 

[corysmith01]

I, too, had a question about this. I have my speakers set to larget and they certainly are not large...B&W DM601 s3's. I know this is probably not the best setting for them, but there's a reason I did it. The reason is due to 2 channel direct listening. Now, am I wrong to do this? I did this because I thought that if I set it to small, it would only send information to my speakers down to 80hz, with everything below that being sent to the sub...but in direct mode, there is no sub, only fronts. Does this hold true? If I set them to small, am I diminishing frequencies sent in direct mode? Or, when you put it in 2 channel, does it bypass these crossover settings altogether and send all frequencies to your speakers? I just don't want my 2 channel listening to be affected when I put it in direct. Does anyone know how this works? I'm using a Marantz SR8400. Thanks.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Doesnt effect the efficiently of the sub because its still doing the same thing but your speakers are ttrying to do it also,right?

On the Denon models, LFE + Main + front to large should let the two towers and sub play at maximum levels, but I find that simply choosing "small" for all my speakers allows more spl in the sub. I'm guessing the signal is reduced to the rca outs a tad to compensate if your mains are also adding the low frequencies when LFE + Main + front to large is setup. There are so many processors in these new receivers, it's hard to tell what's going on. I've read my 101 page manual 4x and I'm still learning. I'm thankful for the bass management on the back of my sub when all else fails on the receiver.

 

[Tomorrow]

I don't have an spl meter, but my ears tell me that my HT system sounds much better/fuller with my fronts set to 'large' + LFE to two subs. (Mebbe my ears really like the bass???) Also, my receiver, a Panasonic SA-HE200, 105W/channel 6.1 appears ONLY to offer only a 100 hz cutoff to the mains when they're set to 'small'. (I guess you get whatcha pay for, eh?!) The whole shebang sounds even better to my unaudiophile ears, on my unaudiophile equipment, when the back surrounds are also set to 'large' (they are large).

Is there something I'm missing? Everyone here says it should sound muddy, but to me, it seems 'fuller'. When every speaker is set to 'small' and the LFE is out to the subs, I sense the separation..there is no linearity or continuity of sound in those lower frequencies. HELP.

Panasonic SA-HE200
Hsu STF-1
JBL N-Centerll
JBL S120Pll
JBL S312llx2
JBL L350x2
JBL N26x1
Panasonic 50" LCD Projection
Panasonic F87 DVD

Thanks in advance for your wisdom and suggestions.

 

[warpdrive]

I, too, had a question about this. I have my speakers set to larget and they certainly are not large...B&W DM601 s3's. I know this is probably not the best setting for them, but there's a reason I did it. The reason is due to 2 channel direct listening. Now, am I wrong to do this? I did this because I thought that if I set it to small, it would only send information to my speakers down to 80hz, with everything below that being sent to the sub...but in direct mode, there is no sub, only fronts. Does this hold true? If I set them to small, am I diminishing frequencies sent in direct mode? Or, when you put it in 2 channel, does it bypass these crossover settings altogether and send all frequencies to your speakers? I just don't want my 2 channel listening to be affected when I put it in direct. Does anyone know how this works? I'm using a Marantz SR8400. Thanks.

I'm not familar with your receiver, but with my Yamaha, if I put it in 2ch Direct mode, it bypasses all bass management circuits. That is....it doesn't matter if the speakers are set to LARGE or SMALL, it ignores all those settings. So I can use the full range of my main speakers. Nearly all receivers has a "2 channel Pure or Direct" mode which bypasses the processing to ensure your 2 front main speakers are reproducing sound without intervention from the receiver.

It sounds like your Marantz is doing the same thing. It's easy to test yourself, just run the sub in auto ON mode and see if the receiver is sending it any bass in Direct mode. If it never turns on, then the receiver is bypassing it.

 

[shokhead]

I don't have an spl meter, but my ears tell me that my HT system sounds much better/fuller with my fronts set to 'large' + LFE to two subs. (Mebbe my ears really like the bass???) Also, my receiver, a Panasonic SA-HE200, 105W/channel 6.1 appears ONLY to offer only a 100 hz cutoff to the mains when they're set to 'small'. (I guess you get whatcha pay for, eh?!) The whole shebang sounds even better to my unaudiophile ears, on my unaudiophile equipment, when the back surrounds are also set to 'large' (they are large).

Is there something I'm missing? Everyone here says it should sound muddy, but to me, it seems 'fuller'. When every speaker is set to 'small' and the LFE is out to the subs, I sense the separation..there is no linearity or continuity of sound in those lower frequencies. HELP.

Panasonic SA-HE200
Hsu STF-1
JBL N-Centerll
JBL S120Pll
JBL S312llx2
JBL L350x2
JBL N26x1
Panasonic 50" LCD Projection
Panasonic F87 DVD

Thanks in advance for your wisdom and suggestions.

Then its not right somewhere because it should sound like the bass from the sub is coming from your main fronts.

 

[RMK!]

Main Front vs Sub

I tried the Front speakers set to small and didn't it must be my poor room acoustics and sub placement but my system sounds better with the fronts set to large and putting out some bass. I have a large open room and the sub is in the left rear of the room (corner). The sub volume is set very low cause if I turn it up even a lttle, it gets really boomy. The positioning of the equipment is a concession to the wife to make it as invisable as possible. I'm sure I'm not the only one in this boat with a multi use room (family room and HT) and a non-HT interested spouse.

 

[shokhead]

Rear isnt the first place i'd put a sub.

 

[warpdrive]

Rear isnt the first place i'd put a sub.

Dr. Hsu would disagree

 

[shokhead]

Maybe i know more then him?
Go to 20 homes with a HT setup and 18 will have the sub my the fronts.

 

[warpdrive]

Maybe i know more then him?

Doubtful

Many people put the subs in front because they think they need to be there.
That doesn't mean it's the best place though. The best place is quite often somewhere else in the room.

You can get a lot more impact when the sub is placed near the listening location. Sometimes moving your existing sub to a different location nearer to you yields more benefit than actually upgrading the entire sub itself.

 

[shokhead]

I'll leave mine in the front right corner.

 

[mulester7]

.....Stokhead, you will probably have a best corner on the tv end....I have a computer station too close to one of my subs left front....it is restricted to project....we're talking that sine wave thing again....anyhow, I want to let the one on the right side that is in no way restricted take the lead....I want the one on the left to now play a supportive role to maintain the low layer all the way across my front and not be loud enough to take away as per confusion heard....in other words, I sorta' bring the volume of the one on the left up under the right, and the right is actually my ace that is going to attempt to create a full sine wave in my theater/room....supported, of course by leftie who's main purpose now is to take the low layer all the way across the front and no more....here's a means to check just how restricted a sub may be with the sub placed in corners and you're kidding yourself if they ain't in corners for about 38,487,287 reasons and I'm about to tell you every one of them....the first....the sub has a CHANCE of attaining the frequency it's tuned to ONLY in a corner....the second....through the REST, inclusive....the number of square inches of air space in your room....oh yeah, how to check a sub for possible restrictions....walk to the far opposite corner of the room with it cranked and ye' shall know.....

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Everyone try this

A friend of mine who has a high end Paradigm 7.1 set up with their best sub told me to put the sub at the actual listening position (move the chair you sit in out of the way), then crawl around the outside perimeter of the room while playing a great bass cd or dvd. Find the absolute best spot the bass sounds while on your hands and knees (keep your head low), and place the sub in that location. You'll be surprised where the sub ends up. Now when you find that spot, also move your ear from right up against the wall and out approximately 12 inches. That will determine the distance from the wall. Once you place your sub, you're not through. Now rotate the sub until the sound is perfect (if front firing). Don't assume the port should face the wall. That's your best placement for an efficient, deep sounding sub. 35 minutes is all it takes. Let us know if it improved your sub.

 

[Dan]

First of all hidog, I think you picked out an excellent system. I auditioned the monitor silver series extensively when I was shopping and I think they are great. They did benefit by extra power when I heard them hooked to a large Parasound amp. The website states thier frequency response is 35 Hz- 30 KHz +/- 3 db. Therefore they probably should not try to handle lower frequencies at loud volumes. I would recommend that they be set to small. The question is where to set the crossover and if you can on the Denon adjust the slope of the crossover. I assume a fairly standard second order 12db per octave slope would work well. Thus, if the crossover is at 80 Hz at one octave lower (40 Hz) the volume would be rolled off 12 db. Thus the speaker should handle it well. It may also handle a 60 Hz crossover well also. This will reduce the frequncy range the sub must cover and make its positioning slighlty less critical. It will require trial and error to see what sounds best. If the Denon generates test tones or if you buy a set up disk with test tones in the bass frequencies you can fiddle with the crossover to find the flattest response.

There are set up placement tips for subs elsewhere in audioholics which are excellent. My opinion is that the closer it is to one of the front speakers the better. If you have your main speaker out frome the wall three feet or so which is a good idea the sub may be able to go behind it and be out of the way. I like my sub to be close to the main speaker so that the sound from each speaker hits my ear in as close a proximity to each other as possible. Others clearly have different opinions. Be patient. I spent many months playing with speaker position and the crossover frequency before I found a satisfactory set up.

 

[mulester7]

.....Buck, I'll certainly say I saw something reading your suggestions, but I'm going to say that approach should be limited to down-firing subs....I wish a few would try stuff and report....