Speaker Size Selection

[GlocksRock]

Def Tech BP10B
Spec: 20Hz-20kHz +/-6dB (Julian Hirsch/Stereo Review Lab)
Cost: $500 retail/ $400-$450 street price

I just setup my new receiver last night and set my mains to large, and I think it does actually sound a bit better than it did when they were set to small. I did however leave the crossover set to 80 hz. since I have tiny surround speakers. I'm sure the BP8s and the CLR2002 could handle a 60 hz. cross, but the small woofers in the BP1.2x probably won't like it too much. I think having gotten the Emotiva amp made a difference in giving the mains enough extra juice in the low end to allow me to set them to large.

 

[Halon451]

I've posted elsewhere in this forum about my crossover headaches and determining the best size selection for those fronts. I am seeing that the difference in opinion is probably as varied as the types of equipment out there, and that what works best for one, may not be the best for another.

I'm going to invest in some better speakers soon. I'll likely experiment with the size settings quite a bit after getting my two new fronts to see what sounds the best, because when it comes down to it, your ears are the final judge.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I just setup my new receiver last night and set my mains to large, and I think it does actually sound a bit better than it did when they were set to small. I did however leave the crossover set to 80 hz. since I have tiny surround speakers. I'm sure the BP8s and the CLR2002 could handle a 60 hz. cross, but the small woofers in the BP1.2x probably won't like it too much. I think having gotten the Emotiva amp made a difference in giving the mains enough extra juice in the low end to allow me to set them to large.

I would most definitely set the BP10s to Large/Full Range. It was made for it. More DETAILS will be heard.

Sure, most subwoofers do a great job with 20Hz-100Hz, particularly the 20Hz-40Hz. But will they be able to play all the DETAILS as well as a Full Range Tower @40Hz-100Hz?

If the speaker was made for full range, why not let it have full range PLUS let the dedicated subwoofer ALSO handle the 20Hz-80Hz?

I just would not want to take a chance on missing any details.

I set all my speakers to LARGE + Subwoofer. If the sounds going to the Fronts, Center, & Surrounds were went to be heard FULL RANGE, I don't want to miss any details. For movies, the LFE channel will play most (if not all) of the LOWER BASS 20Hz-40Hz anyway. But if there are details from 40Hz-80Hz, I want to hear all of it from the INTENDED channels.

 

[GlocksRock]

Very true, and even though the BP8s are suppossedly full range speakers, I still leave them, and the CLR2002 set to small, I'm not sure the smaller driver can handle the lows as well.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Very true, and even though the BP8s are suppossedly full range speakers, I still leave them, and the CLR2002 set to small, I'm not sure the smaller driver can handle the lows as well.

The CLR2002 is definitely SMALL type, but the BP8s are a close call, especially for surrounds. I don't think the movie soundtrack designers would put anything bellow 40Hz to the surrounds. The BP8s are 30Hz-20kHz +/-3dB.
I think they could easily handle being set to LARGE for surrounds. If there were sounds 30Hz-80Hz, you would NOT be able to hear from your surrounds if you set them to SMALL & crossover to 80Hz. My SM450s Surrounds are 47Hz-20kHz +/-3dB, and I have heard a lot of bass (probably 40Hz-80Hz) coming directly from the SM450s, instead of the subwoofers up front in the BP7000SCs.

That's it!
I'm getting four BP10Bs to replace my four SM450s for the Surrounds plus a Trinity!!!.

 

[Halon451]

What about power capability of the receiver. Does setting any speakers to "Large" automatically redirect more power to them, or do they simply pull more power from the receiver on account of the lower frequencies they are being fed?

My receiver is rated at 100 watts per channel (5.1 system) - and I do understand the "All Channels Driven" concept, but I've seen nothing yet that mentions the relationship between size setting and power handling - if there is one.

Thanks to all!

 

[Halon451]

Oops - I quickly thought of something else as soon as I posted my last - setting every speaker to the "Large" setting would effectively render the receiver's built-in crossover useless, am I correct? The only way to minimize potential phase relationship problems at this point would be to adjust the subwoofer's crossover setting down towards the lower frequency limit of the rest of the system for a better blend in that range. Anyone have their system set up this way, or have any thoughts on it?

 

[GlocksRock]

As far as the power going to the speakers, I don't think the small or large setting would matter, but I have an external amplifier anyway, so I get lots of power regardless. I may set the BP8s to large and play some discs with a lot of surround action and see if I can tell a difference, since they are still full range speakers after all, and I have plenty of power for them.

 

[solomr2]

I prefer the sound of my Def Tech Mythos-1 towers and Mythos 3 center on the large setting, while my Gems in back are set to small. My supercube sub gives me good lows, but I prefer full range to the front drivers without the sub for most music listening. I think this is really a matter of personal preference, so I don't think there is a right and a wrong answer, it just depends on what you like.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

As far as the power going to the speakers, I don't think the small or large setting would matter, but I have an external amplifier anyway, so I get lots of power regardless. I may set the BP8s to large and play some discs with a lot of surround action and see if I can tell a difference, since they are still full range speakers after all, and I have plenty of power for them.

I think the closer you sit to your surrounds, the more significant impact you will hear when set to LARGE.

Like when I watch "The Unit" on SD DVDs, I hear a lot of surround effects. They have music w/ plently of bass playing in the surround channels. I can hear it very distinctly.

With a dedicated amplifier, there is no reason to set the BP8s to anything less than LARGE IMO. I bet the the BP8s can go 25Hz @-6dB from 75dB. If you are sitting 5 to 6 ft away, you will definitely hear significant bass if set to LARGE.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What about power capability of the receiver. Does setting any speakers to "Large" automatically redirect more power to them, or do they simply pull more power from the receiver on account of the lower frequencies they are being fed?

My receiver is rated at 100 watts per channel (5.1 system) - and I do understand the "All Channels Driven" concept, but I've seen nothing yet that mentions the relationship between size setting and power handling - if there is one.

Thanks to all!

I recall reading somewhere that the usual receiver rated at 100wpc (1 ch driven) is more like 35-40 wpc (all channels driven). So unless you have a dedicated external amplifier, it's probably best to set to SMALL.

Now if you had the Onkyo 875, which is 130wpc 8 ohms 2-ch driven or 128wpc all-channel driven, you could set to LARGE.

 

[GlocksRock]

I'm only about 4.5 to 5.5 ft. away from the rear surrounds, so I will set them to large for a while and see what I think. I hope it makes a nice difference, it's always great to get an improvement in sound from what you already have without having to spend any more money.

 

[Halon451]

I recall reading somewhere that the usual receiver rated at 100wpc (1 ch driven) is more like 35-40 wpc (all channels driven). So unless you have a dedicated external amplifier, it's probably best to set to SMALL.

Now if you had the Onkyo 875, which is 130wpc 8 ohms 2-ch driven or 128wpc all-channel driven, you could set to LARGE.

That's what I'm afraid of - my budget really limited the amount I could spend on a new receiver just after my last one died, so I thought the Yamaha would be a nice replacement. What is the best way to tell what kind of power the RX is really using? The specifications only read: 'Minimum RMS Output Power For Front, Center, Surround - 1kHz 0.9% THD, 8 ohm = 100W / Maximum Power 1 kHz, 10% THD, 8 ohmn = 135 W / Dynamic Power, IHF 8/6/4/2 Ohm = 110/130/160/180 W

Dynamic Head room: 8 ohm - 0.41dB

Now, I do understand the concepts of RMS vs. Peak power, THD, and Dynamic Headroom; what I don't understand is what these specifications are actually telling me - when it says min. RMS power for the Front, Center and Surround, is this telling me for all at once, or individually? Also, it doesn't look like there is any 20Hz to 20kHz spec - all I found was a power rating a 1 kHz.

Did I get duped into buying a receiver that I thought was going to provide more power here?

 

[3db]

I recall reading somewhere that the usual receiver rated at 100wpc (1 ch driven) is more like 35-40 wpc (all channels driven). So unless you have a dedicated external amplifier, it's probably best to set to SMALL.

Now if you had the Onkyo 875, which is 130wpc 8 ohms 2-ch driven or 128wpc all-channel driven, you could set to LARGE.

Unless its a NAD. Only receiver I know of that does what it published specs says it will do.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Unless its a NAD. Only receiver I know of that does what it published specs says it will do.

**cough***cough
Don't forget Harman Kardon!
I had the Harman Kardon AVR247, which was rated at 50wpc-RMS w/all channels driven 20Hz-20Khz. It had no trouble at all driving my DefTech BP7000SCs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Minimum RMS Output Power For Front, Center, Surround - 1kHz 0.9% THD, 8 ohm = 100W / Maximum Power 1 kHz, 10% THD, 8 ohmn = 135 W / Dynamic Power, IHF 8/6/4/2 Ohm = 110/130/160/180 W

Dynamic Head room: 8 ohm - 0.41dB

Did I get duped into buying a receiver that I thought was going to provide more power here?

Unless you have one of those higher power/higher end receivers (Onkyo 875 is actually 140wpc x 2ch, 128wpc x all channels), you will most likely need an external amp for driving the LOWER BASS in the LARGE speakers.
Dollar for Dollar, practically all the Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer, HK, etc. receivers will have about the same power, which is not going to be impressive, no matter how they specify their NUMBERS.

 

[GlocksRock]

After watching Tears Of The Sun on bluray with my front and surround back speakers set to large, I really like the way it sounds. I think I'm going to leave it like that from now on since the BP10s and BP8s are touted as being full range speakers, and I have the power to push them.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

After watching Tears Of The Sun on bluray with my front and surround back speakers set to large, I really like the way it sounds. I think I'm going to leave it like that from now on since the BP10s and BP8s are touted as being full range speakers, and I have the power to push them.

The fact that you are using BP8s are "SURROUND" speakers really makes me want to upgrade my SM450 surround speakers to BP10s!

The BP8s are definitely OVERKILL for a "Surround" speaker!

 

[GlocksRock]

The fact that you are using BP8s are "SURROUND" speakers really makes me want to upgrade my SM450 surround speakers to BP10s!

The BP8s are definitely OVERKILL for a "Surround" speaker!

This coming from someone who wants BP7000SC's for all 7 channels

I don't think it's overkill, I find it to be just right. After all, I only paid $150 for the pair.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm only using BP1.2x for surrounds, the BP8s are for surrouond back since they work better in that location.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This coming from someone who wants BP7000SC's for all 7 channels

I don't think it's overkill, I find it to be just right. After all, I only paid $150 for the pair.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm only using BP1.2x for surrounds, the BP8s are for surrouond back since they work better in that location.

Where did you get them for $150 a pair!