Speaker Reviews - Are They Adequates?

[herbu]

massaged press releases to describe the products and prompted this very article from a late industry insider:

http://www.audioholics.com/editorials/reviewing-home-theater-reviews

Wow. Interesting how many times he uses the press spouting govt propaganda as his model for what's happening in audio reviews.

His final summation line is, "In the new America "freedom of the press" means freedom to pass government propaganda as news and freedom to pass corporate press releases as reviews. Welcome to the "free" world."

It is what this old conservative has been saying for years. Is anybody really surprised this new "normal" has invaded audio reviews, car reviews, and every other review? It's political correctness gone wild.

 

[gene]

I agree about negative reviews... why waste time and energy on them? Some people think they give a reviewer credibility, but I don't agree. Great measurements and weighty technical comments give a reviewer credibility. A great review teaches me something new.

IMO, AH's most useful reviews are the subwoofer reviews by Josh Ricci, who does almost everything on the most wanted list. In fact, I think his reviews are equal to the best reviews on any audio equipment I've read anywhere.

AH's electronics reviews are pretty good, but often the subjective portions are not very useful. More comments on fit and finish and component choices would be welcome.

More blunt feedback:

Reviews without measurements aren't very useful, like the one for the Legacy Focus. I remember a few of us asking the equivalent of "Where's the beef?"

Most of AH's previews aren't all that useful. You personally wrote a very good one on the latest Revel sub, but that was, unfortunately, mostly an anomaly. A few more like that one and I'll change my tune.

I'd love to have more reviews with full compliment of measurements but it's not always practical. The latest example being Josh's review of the XTZ sub which is taking almost 6 months to come to fruition. Most peeps writing for us have other jobs and commitments and it takes time to do measurements properly.

In addition, we are in quite possibly the most fickle industry there is. I simply cannot generate enough ad revenue to support hiring multiple qualified reviewers full time and still make a living myself. I also can't collect enough revenues from consumers as they are typically equally fickle and expect everything for free.

Most manufacturers don't place a lot of importance to online magazines. The audio industry is still about 20 years behind the time in marketing and are under the false impression that a fullpage ad in a print magazine that has miniscule circulation will some how magically produce results (of course the results are never tracked). So it's a catch 22.

Also most readers don't really care if a review has measurements and even more don't really understand the measurements anyways.

I disagree that a review without measurements has no use. You are still getting practical experience from a reviewer that has evaluated 10s or 100s of products prior.

As for previews, they are our answer to the rest of the industry's so called reviews. They get great SEO, especially the comparison previews. They often get more traffic than formal reviews and they are quick and easy to write. In order to maintain a constant flow of new content to the site they are a great necessity and they won't be going away anytime soon. Per request of others, I have separated the preview and review content with the new site template for those that care to filter it.

 

[gene]

Now, does this means that when it comes to AH speaker reviews we will start to get pictures and comments of the insides?

I'm not sure why you keep repeating this point. Most of our loudspeaker reviews (especially the ones I do) have internal pics of product and plenty of them.

Also we did work diligently to devise a loudspeaker measurement standard that the industry could adopt but its very difficult to get others to conform. The same happened with subwoofers which we took the lead on but others sadly did not follow.

see: http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/loudspeaker-measurement-standard
( I wish i had more reviewers that could test speakers to our standard)

and:
http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/measure-loudspeaker-performance

 

[Irvrobinson]

Most manufacturers don't place a lot of importance to online magazines. The audio industry is still about 20 years behind the time in marketing and are under the false impression that a fullpage ad in a print magazine that has miniscule circulation will some how magically produce results (of course the results are never tracked). So it's a catch 22.

I believe you. No one ever accused the audio industry of being full of great business people.

Also most readers don't really care if a review has measurements and even more don't really understand the measurements anyways.

I know. And you have the added annoyance that many of your most vocal forum participants are not representative of a profitably sized audience, like me. It is ironic that the automotive media likes to measure everything, including taking big sedans to the track and comparing lap times, and on the street measurements don't matter so much anymore, it's all about feel. But I suppose times & speeds are a lot easier to understand by the technically ignorant than decibels and harmonic distortion.[/QUOTE]

 

[majorloser]

AH pretty much takes apart EVERYTHING they review.
I seem to remember a few heated debates that caused with certain Bluray players in the past, too.

 

[agarwalro]

In addition, we are in quite possibly the most fickle industry there is. I simply cannot generate enough ad revenue to support hiring multiple qualified reviewers full time and still make a living myself. I also can't collect enough revenues from consumers as they are typically equally fickle and expect everything for free.

You could do something like Projectorreviews.com. The product tour, side by side comparisons, shootouts and consumer level discussion are free and open. For technical discussion and calibration results one need to be inside the pay wall. I know I'll be paying when I start shopping for a projector. That said, I'll not renew my membership once the decision making process is complete. I wonder what they do to counter such attrition?

I guess, if you provide the content, people will come. You can count me in .

 

[gene]

You could do something like Projectorreviews.com. The product tour, side by side comparisons, shootouts and consumer level discussion are free and open. For technical discussion and calibration results one need to be inside the pay wall. I know I'll be paying when I start shopping for a projector. That said, I'll not renew my membership once the decision making process is complete. I wonder what they do to counter such attrition?

I guess, if you provide the content, people will come. You can count me in .

We have membership services in the form of ebooks and soon to be webinars. It's not a very profitable business model for us and its doubtful there will be enough people willing to pay a premium for tech / calibration info. Additionally, restricting content for paid membership severely hinders site traffic and SEO which are paramount for our business model.

 

[gene]

I believe you. No one ever accused the audio industry of being full of great business people.



I know. And you have the added annoyance that many of your most vocal forum participants are not representative of a profitably sized audience, like me. It is ironic that the automotive media likes to measure everything, including taking big sedans to the track and comparing lap times, and on the street measurements don't matter so much anymore, it's all about feel. But I suppose times & speeds are a lot easier to understand by the technically ignorant than decibels and harmonic distortion.

Agreed the car reviews are a bit ridiculous at times. Most people don't take their cars on tracks or even able to drive it to the limits. I know I wouldn't take my car on a track for fear of burning out the tires and brakes. Again this is why I really value practical subjective car reviews that I watch on Youtube and read on various sites. I always find things in a car that annoy me that are rarely ever covered in a review such as poor user interface with the Nav system, ergonomic issues and most recently the lack of a damn sunglass holder in my IS 350 F Sport. Seriously?!? Who missed that at Lexus when designing this car!

 

[KEW]

...and most recently the lack of a damn sunglass holder in my IS 350 F Sport. Seriously?!? Who missed that at Lexus when designing this car!

They want the other drivers to see the look in your eyes as you do 0-60 in 5 seconds!

 

[Irvrobinson]

Agreed the car reviews are a bit ridiculous at times. Most people don't take their cars on tracks or even able to drive it to the limits. I know I wouldn't take my car on a track for fear of burning out the tires and brakes. Again this is why I really value practical subjective car reviews that I watch on Youtube and read on various sites. I always find things in a car that annoy me that are rarely ever covered in a review such as poor user interface with the Nav system, ergonomic issues and most recently the lack of a damn sunglass holder in my IS 350 F Sport. Seriously?!? Who missed that at Lexus when designing this car!

I couldn't agree more about the value of subjective reviews for cars. There are times in audio that subjective reviews are useful, like with pre-pros and AVRs. Annoyances seem to run rampant in them. I wish I had seen one before I bought my Outlaw 975, for example. The problem is though that for most audio components, especially speakers and amps, nothing beats measurements for differentiating the best ones. An inconvenient truth for sure.

 

[PENG]

I couldn't agree more about the value of subjective reviews for cars. There are times in audio that subjective reviews are useful, like with pre-pros and AVRs. Annoyances seem to run rampant in them. I wish I had seen one before I bought my Outlaw 975, for example. The problem is though that for most audio components, especially speakers and amps, nothing beats measurements for differentiating the best ones. An inconvenient truth for sure.

I don't mind subjective car reviews as long as the reviewers are really skilled drivers and are honest. A highly skilled driver should be able to tell one car performs better than another in terms of handling, acceleration, quietness, smoothness (nice and smooth deep growl), acceleration, braking distance etc. The test track performance data, if measured, are also useful from safety stand point. All things being equal, I prefer a car that measures well on the test tracks.

On the audio side such as speakers, the problem is that even if I know the reviewers is 100% unbiased, has great auditory memory and perfect hearing and well trained, I just can't tell what his/her references are as they rarely made that clear. Your post#19 point 4) as quoted below, summed up well for me.

"If someone regularly records (or otherwise hears) live acoustic instruments in small rooms (small meaning anything in a residential home) I'll probably listen to what they have to say. Otherwise, most subjective opinions are wasted on me."

 

[Chu Gai]

We have membership services in the form of ebooks and soon to be webinars. It's not a very profitable business model for us and its doubtful there will be enough people willing to pay a premium for tech / calibration info. Additionally, restricting content for paid membership severely hinders site traffic and SEO which are paramount for our business model.

What about directing some efforts to attracting women or Latinos?

 

[Chu Gai]

Agreed the car reviews are a bit ridiculous at times. Most people don't take their cars on tracks or even able to drive it to the limits. I know I wouldn't take my car on a track for fear of burning out the tires and brakes. Again this is why I really value practical subjective car reviews that I watch on Youtube and read on various sites. I always find things in a car that annoy me that are rarely ever covered in a review such as poor user interface with the Nav system, ergonomic issues and most recently the lack of a damn sunglass holder in my IS 350 F Sport. Seriously?!? Who missed that at Lexus when designing this car!

I can't think of the website but there's one started by a woman that looks at things like ergonometrics from the POV of what a woman or for that matter a dad would find useful when schlepping kids to practice or shopping.

 

[Chu Gai]

I may be the only one but I would like reviewers use mostly unamplifiered music and try their best to reference the sound to live music, relying on memory, unfortunately. Pictures of the inside, more details of the drivers and crossovers will be great but I doubt you will see much of those for the expensive ones.

Unamplified music is fine and there certainly are many genres to pick from but the question remains is just how familiar is the reviewer with this? Does he go regularly to such performances and are his musical selections reflective of this?

In general, I think not. I think they select stuff because it makes them sound sophisticated, knowing, insightful, and discriminating. It's an obligatory toss in. Take for example this excerpt of a recent review...

Olivier Messiaen, Louange à l'Éternité de Jésus, cello and piano. ********* gave a very emotional, very engaging delivery of this track. I was really quite transported.

That's all this wanker wrote about the piece. Nothing else. Zip. I'm not even sure if it's his own copy.

<snip>

To me, the bottom line is that measurements done by JA, AH, and Soundstagenetwork.com on speakers are probably the best we can rely on whether they are far from being adequate or not. I will continue to read the subjective part of any audio equipment review including those on speakers mostly for fun, and only if I have nothing else to do.

Yes, but without some subjective listening tests that look to stress the speaker, you might find the measurements don't reflect that the speaker can go into cardiac arrest.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Reviewing audio components isn't easy.

How can you write a hundred reviews and make them all sound original or just different?

Whether the reviews are good enough or not, I feel for the person doing the reviews.

 

[Chu Gai]

Reviewing audio components isn't easy.

How can you write a hundred reviews and make them all sound original or just different?

Whether the reviews are good enough or not, I feel for the person doing the reviews.

In the cosmic hierarchy of things that aren't easy, I'm not going to put reviewing too far up there. To me, this isn't about reviews sounding different or original. It's about them being thorough and genuinely informative to the reader. They shouldn't come across like a publicist or agent for the manufacturer. I'm sorry but I don't feel sorry for them. Many need to be told they really ought to choose a different different line because their efforts are mediocre. Come back when you show improvement.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In the cosmic hierarchy of things that aren't easy, I'm not going to put reviewing too far up there. To me, this isn't about reviews sounding different or original. It's about them being thorough and genuinely informative to the reader. They shouldn't come across like a publicist or agent for the manufacturer. I'm sorry but I don't feel sorry for them. Many need to be told they really ought to choose a different different line because their efforts are mediocre. Come back when you show improvement.

"Thorough" or informative in terms of measurements or in terms of opinions?

1. The best or most accurate "thorough" and informative speaker measurement isn't going to guarantee that you will prefer the speaker the most.

2. The most thorough, "informative" and 100% honest opinion doesn't mean you will agree.

3. Most people only have a very limited number of speakers at their local stores to audition.

I look for 2 OBJECTIVE things in speaker reviews:
1. Measurement. On/off FR or listening window FR. What is the impedance curve, sensitivity and bass extension? Dynamics? Can they play @ 90dB from 20 FT?
2. Features

What type of speaker is it? Active? Passive? Traditional direct front radiating? Dipole or variations of it? Line-array or variations of it? Does it have internal amp? Can the bass be actively bi-amped, controlled, and adjusted? Is only passive bi-amp? Can the active bass go down to 20-25Hz? Dimensions? Will they fit in my room? What colors are available ? How much do they weigh? Can I lift it? Can they be mounted on the wall or shelf? How many YR of warranty? Customer service?

I'll decide if the tweeter is "airy" or sweet or smooth or whatever adjectives. I'll decide is the soundstage is large and image is convincing or whatever adjectives.

 

[herbu]

To me, this isn't about reviews sounding different or original. It's about them being thorough and genuinely informative to the reader.

I wonder how similar 10 different reviews of the same product would read if none of the reviewers had read or heard any other reviews before writing theirs.

 

[Chu Gai]

"Thorough" or informative in terms of measurements or in terms of opinions?

Go back to my opening post. Also keep in mind I'm pretty much targeting the ID segment.
My concept of thorough encompasses and goes beyond what you wrote above. Some examples...
If you're measuring give the relevant information - microphone, software, distance, relationship of the mic to the driver(s), smoothing. That looks to define the experimental conditions. Further some knowledgeable comments about the results would be appreciated.
Explain the warranty and the obligations of the customer and vendor. Make sure they understand potential costs.
Explain the return policy.
Does the speaker have serial numbers?
How is it shipped? Packaged? Take some pics.
Delivery times.
Subjective opinions should not be terse.
And so on.

1. The best or most accurate "thorough" and informative speaker measurement isn't going to guarantee that you will prefer the speaker the most.

Agreed. It should give you an idea if it's worth considering.

2. The most thorough, "informative" and 100% honest opinion doesn't mean you will agree.

Agreed.

3. Most people only have a very limited number of speakers at their local stores to audition.

Yup hence the allure of ID.

I look for 2 OBJECTIVE things in speaker reviews:
1. Measurement. On/off FR or listening window FR. What is the impedance curve, sensitivity and bass extension? Dynamics? Can they play @ 90dB from 20 FT?
2. Features

What type of speaker is it? Active? Passive? Traditional direct front radiating? Dipole or variations of it? Line-array or variations of it? Does it have internal amp? Can the bass be actively bi-amped, controlled, and adjusted? Is only passive bi-amp? Can the active bass go down to 20-25Hz? Dimensions? Will they fit in my room? What colors are available ? How much do they weigh? Can I lift it? Can they be mounted on the wall or shelf? How many YR of warranty? Customer service?

all excellent points.

I'll decide if the tweeter is "airy" or sweet or smooth or whatever adjectives. I'll decide is the soundstage is large and image is convincing or whatever adjectives.

Some reviewers do get creative!

 

[nfafan]

"Thorough" or informative in terms of measurements or in terms of opinions?

<snip>

I look for 2 OBJECTIVE things in speaker reviews:
1. Measurement. On/off FR or listening window FR. What is the impedance curve, sensitivity and bass extension? Dynamics? Can they play @ 90dB from 20 FT?
2. Features

What type of speaker is it? Active? Passive? Traditional direct front radiating? Dipole or variations of it? Line-array or variations of it? Does it have internal amp? Can the bass be actively bi-amped, controlled, and adjusted? Is only passive bi-amp? Can the active bass go down to 20-25Hz? Dimensions? Will they fit in my room? What colors are available ? How much do they weigh? Can I lift it? Can they be mounted on the wall or shelf? How many YR of warranty? Customer service?

I'll decide if the tweeter is "airy" or sweet or smooth or whatever adjectives. I'll decide is the soundstage is large and image is convincing or whatever adjectives.

My 2-cents; objective measurements and let us go hear for ourselves.

All of us have different hearing; back in the day, everyone worshiped Bose 901s and Larger Advents...
Couldn't afford 901s, and the OLAs sounded blah compared to the ALTECs I ended up buying. A later pair of "poor man's Larger Advents" - Dynaco A25s simply re-confirmed my original opinion of an Advent, so I sold em.

Amps, rcvrs, etc - definitely need measurements and specs.