Speaker power rating

[JOHN FICKEL]

I think one would have to agree, Klipsch is a lot of speaker for the money. it all boils down to personal preference, and the kind of music your going to listen to. And at what levels you want to listen.

 

[everettT]

I think one would have to agree, Klipsch is a lot of speaker for the money. it all boils down to personal preference, and the kind of music you going to listen to. And at what levels you want to listen.

It's always a preference. My reference was in regard to best buy and the lack of choices, poor listening environment and uneducated sales reps. Another annoyance to me is when a company uses the term reference as a sales tool.

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

That's why as consumers, it's our responsibility to educate ourselves. As long as you're happy sitting in front of whatever you buy, nothing else matters. The problem is a lot of specialty retailers are closing their doors, Which leaves people not many options to purchase but places like Best Buy. I wish Audioholics would open up a store wide chain.

 

[Blues Doctor]

Extra power that won't be used, won't make speakers sound any better. More power will ensure less distortion at peak demands that won't typically last even a second.

I know Bestbuy has been selling/pushing Klipsch for years, but why are they getting so popular recently, all of a sudden. It seems that not a week has gone by that we don't get questions related to Klipsch speakers, very strange!!

Well to me, less distortion is part of the better sound equation. I can't speak for the recent surge in questions about Klipsch. For me, my decision was driven by value for my restrictive budget.
Spent months researching and auditioning speakers before deciding on Klipsch. I couldn't justify spending more money on a popular speaker with weaker specs that didn't sound as good as the Klipsch to my ears. I got the best sound for me at a price I could afford. Now I want to hear the Elac Uni series. I got a pair of KEF bookshelves too with the savings on the BB Black Friday Sale. A $900 pair of Klipsch towers w/dual 8" woofers for $450. I liked that deal.
Perhaps more ppl are getting onboard w/the Andrew Jones train about bringing more people into the joy of audio by offering decent quality gear that blue collar audiophiles can afford. Above entry-level gear reasonably priced. That budget/value fire that Jones sparked with the Pioneer series he designed. That could explain more ppl coming into the hobby/passion, along with increase in sites like Audioholics.com. I've noticed more younger ppl interested in home audio now after they heard a real stereo for the first time. I'm happy for now, and so is my wallet!

 

[Blues Doctor]

That's why as consumers, it's our responsibility to educate ourselves. As long as you're happy sitting in front of whatever you buy, nothing else matters. The problem is a lot of specialty retailers are closing their doors, Which leaves people not many options to purchase but places like Best Buy. I wish Audioholics would open up a store wide chain.

Great point. I had to drive 55 miles one way to audition the Klipsch. Wholeheartedly agree about educating ourselves. That's why I love Audioholics. I get addicted to the research and learning process.

 

[Blues Doctor]

It's always a preference. My reference was in regard to best buy and the lack of choices, poor listening environment and uneducated sales reps. Another annoyance to me is when a company uses the term reference as a sales tool.

Especially unknowledgeable sales ppl. I trust
my own research.

 

[JOHN FICKEL]

That's why I love this website. So many knowledgeable and helpful people. I feel like part of a team. I think we all can agree that we love this hobbie. And if you are not sure about something just ask. We are all here too help. And if someone is not correct, we want to be lead down the right path. We all want our systems to be set up the best they can be.

 

[KenM10759]

<snip>We all want our systems to be set up the best they can be.

I only wish I could actually afford to do that.

For me, that would require buying or (better yet) building a new home.

 

[PENG]

Well to me, less distortion is part of the better sound equation. I can't speak for the recent surge in questions about Klipsch. For me, my decision was driven by value for my restrictive budget.
Spent months researching and auditioning speakers before deciding on Klipsch. I couldn't justify spending more money on a popular speaker with weaker specs that didn't sound as good as the Klipsch to my ears. I got the best sound for me at a price I could afford. Now I want to hear the Elac Uni series. I got a pair of KEF bookshelves too with the savings on the BB Black Friday Sale. A $900 pair of Klipsch towers w/dual 8" woofers for $450. I liked that deal.
Perhaps more ppl are getting onboard w/the Andrew Jones train about bringing more people into the joy of audio by offering decent quality gear that blue collar audiophiles can afford. Above entry-level gear reasonably priced. That budget/value fire that Jones sparked with the Pioneer series he designed. That could explain more ppl coming into the hobby/passion, along with increase in sites like Audioholics.com. I've noticed more younger ppl interested in home audio now after they heard a real stereo for the first time. I'm happy for now, and so is my wallet!

Just to be clear, if your speakers in your listening environment do not demand the extra power even for peaks in the contents you listen to, then the extra power will have no effects on distortions reduction. More power, that if not actually needed, or say for argument sake 99% of the time, will probably serve like an insurance policy. It is good to have insurance coverage, as long as we know what it does for us.

Regarding Klipsch speakers, I do you think you got yourself an excellent deal for $450. I am just curious about why their popularity on this forum seems so sudden, that's all. I don't recall seeing so many posts about them even a year ago.

 

[Blues Doctor]

That's why I love this website. So many knowledgeable and helpful people. I feel like part of a team. I think we all can agree that we love this hobbie. And if you are not sure about something just ask. We are all here too help. And if someone is not correct, we want to be lead down the right path. We all want our systems to be set up the best they can be.

I have learned a lot here. And I love the "no BS" philosophy about exotic product claims. I didn't take audio engineering in college, but I did study Marketing. I just semiretired and really have to spend wisely. I've been lurking here for a year and finally signed up. Regardless of budget, one is rewarded with study and research. Thanks John.

 

[Blues Doctor]

Just to be clear, if your speakers in your listening environment do not demand the extra power even for peaks in the contents you listen to, then the extra power will have no effects on distortions reduction. More power, that if not actually needed, or say for argument sake 99% of the time, will probably serve like an insurance policy. It is good to have insurance coverage, as long as we know what it does for us.

Regarding Klipsch speakers, I do you think you got yourself an excellent deal for $450. I am just curious about why their popularity on this forum seems so sudden, that's all. I don't recall seeing so many posts about them even a year ago.

Thanks for the clarification. I am assuming you just described as what I think of as headroom. (?). Is that right, or have I misunderstood that term as I interpret it in all my reading? Dynamic headroom? Extra power when needed for dynamic peaks? I am really not certain. Hope you don't think I' being sarcastic. I am only here to expand my knowledge and I'm not sure. I know I felt a little more confident with the extra 25wpc to pair with the 150w rated speakers.
Maybe you answered your own question about the Klipsch. An excellent deal, if you like horn loaded tweeter. I know some don't

 

[PENG]

Thanks for the clarification. I am assuming you just described as what I think of as headroom. (?). Is that right, or have I misunderstood that term as I interpret it in all my reading? Dynamic headroom? Extra power when needed for dynamic peaks? I am really not certain. Hope you don't think I' being sarcastic. I am only here to expand my knowledge and I'm not sure. I know I felt a little more confident with the extra 25wpc to pair with the 150w rated speakers.
Maybe you answered your own question about the Klipsch. An excellent deal, if you like horn loaded tweeter. I know some don't

I consider peaks as power demands that momentarily shoot up much higher than the average power demand. You can call them dynamic peaks too, I suppose. 25WPC more will get you 1.25 dB of SPL more, that is noticeable but won't do justice to 6 to 20 dB peaks typically found in music and movie contents.

Following is a numerical example to show how you can estimate your approximate power requirements.

Assuming your ceiling height is not higher than 10 ft so your room size could be considered a little larger than "medium" size according to THX.

First, look at some known data:

R28F - impedance: 8 ohms nominal, sensitivity: 98 dB at 2.83V 1 meter, that is, 98 dB at 1W, 1m.

To listen at reference level (extremely loud for most people) your speakers have to produce SPL of 85 dB average, with maximum peaks up to 105 dB

Doubling power in watts will result in 3 dB increase in SPL (sound pressure level in dB)

Doubling the distance will result in a loss of 6 dB, but that's in open field

Depend on your room geometry you will get some room gain, it should be save to assume you will get at least 3 dB of room gain

Power requirement calculations:

Since you are supposed to get 98 dB at 1W, 1 meter, based on the R28f's published specifications,

To achieve SPL of 85 dB at 1 meter the speaker will need only 0.05W,

To achieve SPL of 85 dB at 4 meter the speaker will need 16X0.05W or 0.8W

To achieve SPL of 105 dB (that is +20 dB peak per THX cinema standard), you need approx 79.5W.

Now if you factor in the 3 dB room that we can safely assume, your speaker should only need 39.75W to get you 85 dB average and 105 dB peak SPL.

That's for one speaker, for stereo music, you will likely get the same SPL with only half, that is 24.875W.

Now assuming Klipsch exaggerate their sensitivity by 3 dB and their nominal impedance is actually 4 ohms instead of 8 ohms, then you may realistically need 24.875X2X2, or almost 100W per channel. So if you typically listen to average SPL of 75 dB like I do, you will only need only 10W at the most to cover the need of 20 dB of dynamic peaks, that is very rare in music contents. In that case you can get a 1000W amp and it should make no difference for you.

I set up an Excel spreadsheet that allows me to generate tables that saves time in doing such calculations, but you can Google the individual formula to do your own calculations for your specific situation.

I hope this helps.

 

[Blues Doctor]

I consider peaks as power demands that momentarily shoot up much higher than the average power demand. You can call them dynamic peaks too, I suppose. 25WPC more will get you 1.25 dB of SPL more, that is noticeable but won't do justice to 6 to 20 dB peaks typically found in music and movie contents.

Following is a numerical example to show how you can estimate your approximate power requirements.

Assuming your ceiling height is not higher than 10 ft so your room size could be considered a little larger than "medium" size according to THX.

First, look at some known data:

R28F - impedance: 8 ohms nominal, sensitivity: 98 dB at 2.83V 1 meter, that is, 98 dB at 1W, 1m.

To listen at reference level (extremely loud for most people) your speakers have to produce SPL of 85 dB average, with maximum peaks up to 105 dB

Doubling power in watts will result in 3 dB increase in SPL (sound pressure level in dB)

Doubling the distance will result in a loss of 6 dB, but that's in open field

Depend on your room geometry you will get some room gain, it should be save to assume you will get at least 3 dB of room gain

Power requirement calculations:

Since you are supposed to get 98 dB at 1W, 1 meter, based on the R28f's published specifications,

To achieve SPL of 85 dB at 1 meter the speaker will need only 0.05W,

To achieve SPL of 85 dB at 4 meter the speaker will need 16X0.05W or 0.8W

To achieve SPL of 105 dB (that is +20 dB peak per THX cinema standard), you need approx 79.5W.

Now if you factor in the 3 dB room that we can safely assume, your speaker should only need 39.75W to get you 85 dB average and 105 dB peak SPL.

That's for one speaker, for stereo music, you will likely get the same SPL with only half, that is 24.875W.

Now assuming Klipsch exaggerate their sensitivity by 3 dB and their nominal impedance is actually 4 ohms instead of 8 ohms, then you may realistically need 24.875X2X2, or almost 100W per channel. So if you typically listen to average SPL of 75 dB like I do, you will only need only 10W at the most to cover the need of 20 dB of dynamic peaks, that is very rare in music contents. In that case you can get a 1000W amp and it should make no difference for you.

I set up an Excel spreadsheet that allows me to generate tables that saves time in doing such calculations, but you can Google the individual formula to do your own calculations for your specific situation.

I hope this helps.

Wow, what a detailed explanation. Thank you Peng. That does help my understanding. As you said in earlier post, I have the insurance of having extra power for demanding peaks and for possible future speakers that would require more power.

 

[PENG]

Wow, what a detailed explanation. Thank you Peng. That does help my understanding. As you said in earlier post, I have the insurance of having extra power for demanding peaks and for possible future speakers that would require more power.

I think you may be still missing the point that the extra 25W is only good in the sense that it can't hurt. It is generally accepted that to perceive twice as loud, one would need 6 to 10 dB more of SPL. That extra 25W will only get you 1.25 dB at the same distortion level. The bottom line is, you don't even need 75W right now, and if you do, 100W won't be enough either.

The main reason I think you made a wise choice to go for the R-S700 is because it allows you to use an external power amplifier, not because it offers 25W more. The R-S500 does not have that feature.

If you don't want to calculate things using formula or spreadsheets, this Calculator is easy to use to figure out your power need and dynamic headroom. I would also suggest you pay This site a visit.

Also, keep in mind a 100W rated Yamaha receiver can typically handle much higher power peaks of short duration.

 

[Blues Doctor]

I think you may be still missing the point that the extra 25W is only good in the sense that it can't hurt. It is generally accepted that to perceive twice as loud, one would need 6 to 10 dB more of SPL. That extra 25W will only get you 1.25 dB at the same distortion level. The bottom line is, you don't even need 75W right now, and if you do, 100W won't be enough either.

The main reason I think you made a wise choice to go for the R-S700 is because it allows you to use an external power amplifier, not because it offers 25W more. The R-S500 does not have that feature.

If you don't want to calculate things using formula or spreadsheets, this Calculator is easy to use to figure out your power need and dynamic headroom. I would also suggest you pay This site a visit.

Also, keep in mind a 100W rated Yamaha receiver can typically handle much higher power peaks of short duration.

Thanks again PENG. Appreciate the help and info. Grateful for this community and members.