Speaker placement and sound treatment

[Dane Nguyen]

Hello, I need advice on setting up my living room. I’m going to be moving into this rental soon, and i want to plan out my home theater. I’m a college student so I’m going to be renting out this place for the next few years. I’m only allowed to make small holes in the wall to hang items.

Information about the room:

The floor is a thick carpet and the walls are drywall and the ceiling is 8ft high and is plaster. The living room is an open floor plan, so behind the magenta line is the dinning area and the kitchen. So ideally i would like to keep everything inside the designated area. There is a 3ft wide by 2 feet tall window on the left wall. I will be installing a drape to cover it. There are four of us living here.

Equipment: I got all this from HHGREGG during the liquidation (I was an employee). The total for everything was $670.

1. 60UH6150 LG 4K HDR PRO 60”
2. TX-NR656 7.2 receiver with Dolby Atmos and DTS:X
3. Two Klipsch towers R28F
4. Klipsch center R25C
5. Four Klipsch bookshelf speakers R14M
6. Klipsch Subwoofer R10SW

Both designs are in feet and everything expect the size of the speakers are to scale. The surround speakers will be on stands around 40 inches tall:

Option 1:

1. Left and Right channels are at 22 degrees at 10 feet away from the sweet spot
2. Surround Left and Right are at 100 degrees at 9 feet away from the sweet spot Toed in
3. Surround Rear Left and Right are at 150 degrees at 3 feet 6 inches away from the sweet spot
4. Center at 0 degrees at 10 feet away from the sweet spot
5. TV 10 feet away
6. Open space on the right side and 4 foot wide hallway behind

Option 2:

1. Left and Right channels are at 20 degrees at 12 feet away from the sweet spot
2. Surround Left and Right are at 110 degrees at 12 feet away from the sweet spot toed in
3. Surround Rear Left and Right are at 160 degrees at 6 feet away from the sweet spot
4. Center at 0 degrees at 12 feet away from the sweet spot
5. TV 12 feet away from the sweet spot
6. Open space behind and 4 foot wide hallway on the left side

Which option would be best overall? I understand that people sitting on couch 1 and chair won’t be getting the best experience. But i want them to have a good movie watching expierence too. What changes would you make? How would you sound treat the room? I’m leaning towards option 2 because i feel that it is better to have the large open space behind you instead of to the side of you. However, i’m sitting farther away from the tv. Would 7.1 or 5.1.2 be better in this case? I’m thinking about selling two of the R15M’s and getting Klipsch’s atmos module RP-140SA.

 

[shadyJ]

The only listening positions getting good sound is going to be the people seated in couch 2 in either of your scenarios. I would go with option 1 since the surround placement seems to be the best with respect to your couch 2 listening position. I would go with 7.1, not 5.1.2, because 7.1 is a lot more useful and used on many more sound mixes than Atmos is.

 

[TheWarrior]

Option 1 with the slight modification of getting any seat away from a wall. Totally agree with Shady on 7 channel surround. Based on your equipment list, what you're going to be wanting is additional subwoofage. The one you bought isn't very capable below 40 hz. Don't confuse driver diameter with frequency extension (they ARE NOT related), but you will want to add a few others (of a different make) around to even out bass response in each seat.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just looking at the drawings, I like Option-2 better because it looks more symmetric and gives you more distance from the TV.

 

[Dane Nguyen]

Option 1 with the slight modification of getting any seat away from a wall. Totally agree with Shady on 7 channel surround. Based on your equipment list, what you're going to be wanting is additional subwoofage. The one you bought isn't very capable below 40 hz. Don't confuse driver diameter with frequency extension (they ARE NOT related), but you will want to add a few others (of a different make) around to even out bass response in each seat.

Would the acoustic audio psw-8 be a good candidate for dual subwoofers with the klipsch r10sw? They both have an rms of 150 and peak of 300 watts. The psw-8 has a frequency response of 26-250 hz.

 

[panteragstk]

Would the acoustic audio psw-8 be a good candidate for dual subwoofers with the klipsch r10sw? They both have an rms of 150 and peak of 300 watts. The psw-8 has a frequency response of 26-250 hz.

Do you have a budget for another sub?

 

[Dane Nguyen]

Do you have a budget for another sub?

Yes I do, preferably under 200 I don’t mind picking up one used.

 

[TheWarrior]

Would the acoustic audio psw-8 be a good candidate for dual subwoofers with the klipsch r10sw? They both have an rms of 150 and peak of 300 watts. The psw-8 has a frequency response of 26-250 hz.

How many electrical circuits are available in this room? That's relevant because of the potential for a ground loop if all of these components are on one circuit.

Thats relevant because:

I see you are going for absolute 'bang for the buck' in which case I would order 3 of the sub you linked to so you can have 4 total around the room. That puts you at $1000 total for ALL of that equipment. Plus some cables to connect to the subs and probably some decent surge/filter protection and you've got an incredible amount of performance for nothing!

 

[Dane Nguyen]

How many electrical circuits are available in this room? That's relevant because of the potential for a ground loop if all of these components are on one circuit.

Thats relevant because:

I see you are going for absolute 'bang for the buck' in which case I would order 3 of the sub you linked to so you can have 4 total around the room. That puts you at $1000 total for ALL of that equipment. Plus some cables to connect to the subs and probably some decent surge/filter protection and you've got an incredible amount of performance for nothing!

I believe the entire living room is on a single circuit. However since the floor plan is wide open I guess I can run an extension cord from the kitchen area which is on a different circuit. Then shove the extension cord between the threshold between the carpet and wall.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

How many electrical circuits are available in this room? That's relevant because of the potential for a ground loop if all of these components are on one circuit.

Huh? Typically the best way to avoid ground loops is to have all the HT gear on the same circuit.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[lovinthehd]

Would the acoustic audio psw-8 be a good candidate for dual subwoofers with the klipsch r10sw? They both have an rms of 150 and peak of 300 watts. The psw-8 has a frequency response of 26-250 hz.

No and neither would be the klipsch R10sw IMO. How big is the total volume of space open to the sub(s)?

 

[TheWarrior]

I believe the entire living room is on a single circuit. However since the floor plan is wide open I guess I can run an extension cord from the kitchen area which is on a different circuit. Then shove the extension cord between the threshold between the carpet and wall.

That may be all you would need. Just something for the back subwoofers in case you encounter the 'hum' of a ground loop

Huh? Typically the best way to avoid ground loops is to have all the HT gear on the same circuit.

Subwoofers use a grounded connection, and when I've utilized four or more I have had to separate them on a different circuit to eliminate the ground loop. But I also have external amps too, so likely had more electronics sharing the same signal and ground, than the OP, but glad they have a back up plan if need be!

No and neither would be the klipsch R10sw IMO. How big is the total volume of space open to the sub(s)?

They are far from ideal, but for the cost of everything, I think the OP will achieve incredible performance for next to nothing. Any subwoofer I would recommend would cost as much if not more than the total already spent, and thats for a single sub.

 

[Dane Nguyen]

No and neither would be the klipsch R10sw IMO. How big is the total volume of space open to the sub(s)?

A back of the envelope calculation gives me about 3600 ft^3 of volume minus the furniture of the entire room plus the open space behind the listening area. The listening area is about 1600 ft^3. If that’s what you were asking.

 

[lovinthehd]

A back of the envelope calculation gives me about 3600 ft^3 of volume minus the furniture of the entire room plus the open space behind the listening area. The listening area is about 1600 ft^3. If that’s what you were asking.

The entire open space, not just your listening area, is what the subs are working within. Try this article http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/subwoofer-room-size

At least stick with a couple 10"s but with your budget your choices are going to be limited....

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

Subwoofers use a grounded connection, and when I've utilized four or more I have had to separate them on a different circuit to eliminate the ground loop.

That certainly isn’t typical, and goes against the laws of electrical physics (at least as they relate to audio). I’d suspect that something is amiss in your house wiring. Every time I’ve ever seen a ground issue on an audio forum that wasn’t related to cable TV feeds, it was resolved by utilizing a single circuit, or at least making sure multiple circuits were all on the same phase.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[TheWarrior]

That certainly isn’t typical, and goes against the laws of electrical physics (at least as they relate to audio). I’d suspect that something is amiss in your house wiring. Every time I’ve ever seen a ground issue on an audio forum that wasn’t related to cable TV feeds, it was resolved by utilizing a single circuit, or at least making sure multiple circuits were all on the same phase.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

A ground loop hum can be caused by too many electrical gadgets sharing the same path to ground, as they would be on a single circuit. So the obvious solution is multiple circuits. An APC Powercenter/filter, AVR, 2 additional amps, 4 active subs, and disc player was enough to induce that on my system, and I solved it by plugging one of the subs in to a different circuit, breaking the loop. If by 'same phase' you mean same side of the circuit panel, then yes, those two circuits were on the same side. I am now running a dedicated 15 amp line for most of the audio and all is well.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

A ground loop hum can be caused by too many electrical gadgets sharing the same path to ground, as they would be on a single circuit.

Never heard of any such thing, and I’ve been doing this stuff since the 70s. I’ve had up to 20 components in my system in the past, with no ground issues.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[TheWarrior]

Never heard of any such thing, and I’ve been doing this stuff since the 70s. I’ve had up to 20 components in my system in the past, with no ground issues.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Just out of curiosity, what 20 components did you have running on a single 15amp circuit?