Speaker Manufacturers: ID vs B&M Who do you prefer

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I kind of forgot what was the point or question of this thread?

So some people believe ID speakers are better for the money, and some people think BM speakers are better for the money because they can get a much bigger discount.

It just depends on the situation.

What if you could get the Salon2 for only $9K? Would you get that or the Soundscape12 for $17K?

Or if you could get the SS12 for $9K? Would you get that if your best price on the Salon2 were $17K?

 

[Nuance AH]

It just depends on the situation.

What if you could get the Salon2 for only $9K? Would you get that or the Soundscape12 for $17K?

Or if you could get the SS12 for $9K? Would you get that if your best price on the Salon2 were $17K?

That's easy: because one still sounds or looks better to that person so they're willing to pay the extra for it. It really comes to to two things: how much performance and sexiness (aesthetics) can I get for my money? And the answers to those questions will always be extremely personal and subjective, which means there is no proper formula for figuring this all it. It simply just depends on the individual. The end.

BTW - You answered your own questions before even asking them, which I have bolded in your quote above.

 

[fuzz092888]

I kind of forgot what was the point or question of this thread?

So some people believe ID speakers are better for the money, and some people think BM speakers are better for the money because they can get a much bigger discount.

It just depends on the situation.

What if you could get the Salon2 for only $9K? Would you get that or the Soundscape12 for $17K?

Or if you could get the SS12 for $9K? Would you get that if your best price on the Salon2 were $17K?

I wish I had this problem. Alas, I'm too poor. Thank goodness for Dennis and the Phils

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It comes down to what we prefer. Some prefer the sound of ID to any B&M in the price range or above. Some prefer BM to any ID in the price range or above. We can try to quietly or loudly justify or argue why we bought what we bought by numerous ways.

But we should buy the speakers we prefer no matter what others say.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Monoprice is a good example in the AV business of the value that an ID company can offer when they can achieve economies of scale. It is just more rare to find with ID than with large B&M companies. Monoprice has EXTREME purchasing power. Does anyone know if monoprice manufacturers any of their products (headphones, anntenas, speakers, subwoofers etc) or do they just use their purchasing power for everything and just put their name on it?

 

[PENG]

It comes down to what we prefer. Some prefer the sound of ID to any B&M in the price range or above. Some prefer BM to any ID in the price range or above. We can try to quietly or loudly justify or argue why we bought what we bought by numerous ways.

But we should buy the speakers we prefer no matter what others say.

I agree, we all have our own preference. My preference is for speakers than could come the closest what I heard "live" unamplifiered music. A couple of graphs even with the waterfall, impedance, phase angle plots don't tell the whole story, and I will only use them for guidance to rule out those unruly ones. As long as those graphs show something decent enough, I would have to go and listen to them to finalize my pick. As for ID, so far the only ones I think I would trust are the Philharmonic 2 & 3 even though I have never heard how they sound.

 

[PENG]

I wish I had this problem. Alas, I'm too poor. Thank goodness for Dennis and the Phils

Same here, but if the Salon 2 'were' in fact for 'only' 9K, I may just find a way (say fast for a couple of years) to get a pair regardless.

 

[Nuance AH]

It comes down to what we prefer. Some prefer the sound of ID to any B&M in the price range or above. Some prefer BM to any ID in the price range or above. We can try to quietly or loudly justify or argue why we bought what we bought by numerous ways.

For most people it likely has nothing to do with the "sound of ID" or the "sound of B&M." It's impossible to know what an ID or B&M speaker will sound like based on it simply being sold through B&M distributors or the ID model. You're right when you say that we should buy the speakers we prefer no matter what others say, though. Speaking of which, so which do you prefer, ADTG? If you could only keep one pair for your music room which would it be and why?

Same here, but if the Salon 2 'were' in fact for 'only' 9K, I may just find a way (say fast for a couple of years) to get a pair regardless.

Used - sure, maybe, but not new. ADTG claims he gets a really amazing discount (so good that Revel would probably pull distribution rights from that dealer if they knew), but even he can't get a new pair for 9K.

These days B&M dealers are asking manufacturers for up to 50% of the profit right off the top, so while I've seen it said that you can get great discounts on B&M speakers, that could very likely lead to that company going belly up (probably not the largest ones, though). If that much money is coming off the top right away, by the time you figure in the rest of the costs that manufacturer probably isn't making much money. It's a shame that our economy is in the state that it is...

I find it interesting that some manufacturers that have sold through a B&M distribution since their birth have now switched to the ID business model.

I agree, we all have our own preference. My preference is for speakers than could come the closest what I heard "live" unamplifiered music. A couple of graphs even with the waterfall, impedance, phase angle plots don't tell the whole story, and I will only use them for guidance to rule out those unruly ones. As long as those graphs show something decent enough, I would have to go and listen to them to finalize my pick.

I don't think ID or B&M business model weigh into most people's decisions. I think it is sound, measurements, aesthetics and other people's experiences with that manufacturer. It so just happens that lately a lot of the ID speakers have been being purchased, and many customers are happy with their decisions and haven't been shy about sharing their opinions. I couldn't care less if my speakers were B&M or ID provided they met my needs and sounded great, and I think most people feel the same way.

 

[avliner]

Monoprice is a good example in the AV business of the value that an ID company can offer when they can achieve economies of scale. It is just more rare to find with ID than with large B&M companies. Monoprice has EXTREME purchasing power. Does anyone know if monoprice manufacturers any of their products (headphones, anntenas, speakers, subwoofers etc) or do they just use their purchasing power for everything and just put their name on it?

No they don't, AFAIK. Let's take their HDMI cables as an example, though. They're all made in China by CO PARTNER, most probably the world's biggest cable manufacturer, that supplies to dozens, or even hundreds of different brands, worldwide on an OEM basis, as several others do.

Bottom line, IMO, is: do you want/prefer to pay a whole lot more for the brand name itself, or to save a bunch and just get the plain MP cables which will do exactly the same??

 

[panteragstk]

The way I look at this is that if I purchase a speaker it has to be worth it to me. If the price is right and the sound is right, then I feel it's worth the money. I've heard and sold so many speakers I've thought were WAY overpriced compared to how they sound that it has made my speaker purchase take so much longer than it should have. I will say that after hearing only one ID brand I'm really curious to hear more simply because the price of the speakers I've heard is almost too good to be true. Pretty impressive. Having said that, the new Pioneers I've got are pretty fantastic for the money as well. Nothing ID about Pioneer.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The way I look at this is that if I purchase a speaker it has to be worth it to me. If the price is right and the sound is right, then I feel it's worth the money. I've heard and sold so many speakers I've thought were WAY overpriced compared to how they sound that it has made my speaker purchase take so much longer than it should have. I will say that after hearing only one ID brand I'm really curious to hear more simply because the price of the speakers I've heard is almost too good to be true. Pretty impressive. Having said that, the new Pioneers I've got are pretty fantastic for the money as well. Nothing ID about Pioneer.

Yup. Pioneer, EMP, Infinity, NHT. Not too shabby. The Focal 814v for $800 brand new ain't too shabby either.

 

[JerryLove]

Purchasing power and Increasing Returns to Scale in production trumps everything.

Agreed. This is why family owned restaurants don't exist, why the Amish can't sell furniture, and why 3 of the 10 fastest street-legal cars in the world are by small builders (and why none have been built in large quantities) ... that last one is a true statistic, unlike the first two which are mostly sarcastic.

No. Scale is powerful, but it does not trump everything.
Google the largest speaker manufacturers. It's gonna be a bunch of Korean and Chinese manufacturers (likely including Samsung), and Bose.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Same here, but if the Salon 2 'were' in fact for 'only' 9K, I may just find a way (say fast for a couple of years) to get a pair regardless.

I can say that my favorite speaker in my house is the Salon2. Best ever. Love them.

It's only fair to compare when all the honeymoon period is over.

 

[cpp]

Agreed. This is why family owned restaurants don't exist, why the Amish can't sell furniture, and why 3 of the 10 fastest street-legal cars in the world are by small builders (and why none have been built in large quantities) ... that last one is a true statistic, unlike the first two which are mostly sarcastic.

No. Scale is powerful, but it does not trump everything.

So true, overall volume, large engineering, production and marketing budgets and to be able to put the product in front of people in stores globally trumps all other small builders.