Speaker design for filling a large room with equally pleasing sound?

[Sera]

Are there some designs that are better for filling the room for sound and not having a sweet spot? Our living room is not an ideal listening situation. We won't be nicely seated center of the room, with the TV on the front. My husband sits in the back of the room, and I sit on a side wall of this large 20x25x10ft room. I know horn tweeters tend to have a very exact sound spot, is there some kind of opposite to this? A speaker that has no specific cone of perfect seating to hear the best sound?

I would like to get a capable pair of towers, eventually building out a 5.1 system. We listen to music and play movies about 50/50. Current considerations are the SVS STS towers, Aperion 6T's, Emptek E55ti, Axiom M80s, and the NHT Absolute 5.1. I've decided on the Denon 3310ci to run the system. I'd love the speakers to be under 1k for the pair, open to buying refurbished to make my money go further. Will any of these that I am considering work?

This may be laughable to ask, but I am new to this. I've been listening to speakers -- and I am wondering, if I like I pair can I look at it's specs (dB sensitivity, wattage, Hz range) and compare it to online speakers to get an idea of how they will sound? Likewise, if there is a speaker I don't like the sound - does that translate at all into the benchmarks?

I suspect not so much - due to influence from the casing, materials used, etc.. but I just thought I would ask.

Thanks!

 

[highfigh]

Are there some designs that are better for filling the room for sound and not having a sweet spot? Our living room is not an ideal listening situation. We won't be nicely seated center of the room, with the TV on the front. My husband sits in the back of the room, and I sit on a side wall of this large 20x25x10ft room. I know horn tweeters tend to have a very exact sound spot, is there some kind of opposite to this? A speaker that has no specific cone of perfect seating to hear the best sound?

I would like to get a capable pair of towers, eventually building out a 5.1 system. We listen to music and play movies about 50/50. Current considerations are the SVS STS towers, Aperion 6T's, Emptek E55ti, Axiom M80s, and the NHT Absolute 5.1. I've decided on the Denon 3310ci to run the system. I'd love the speakers to be under 1k for the pair, open to buying refurbished to make my money go further. Will any of these that I am considering work?

This may be laughable to ask, but I am new to this. I've been listening to speakers -- and I am wondering, if I like I pair can I look at it's specs (dB sensitivity, wattage, Hz range) and compare it to online speakers to get an idea of how they will sound? Likewise, if there is a speaker I don't like the sound - does that translate at all into the benchmarks?

I suspect not so much - due to influence from the casing, materials used, etc.. but I just thought I would ask.

Thanks!

The best way to have great sound is by setting the system up for a large sweet spot, with wide-dispersion speakers and acoustical treatments. The next best way is by using multiple speakers for each channel.

If you want a visual representation of how sound reflects, fill a rectangular pan with water and dip your finger in the water at different points. The points where the rings coincide will either reinforce or cancel each other but secondary reflections will make themselves obvious, too. Next, dip two fingers about 2" apart and look at how much smoother the water is.

Unfortunately, there's no 'perfect' speaker.

 

[TLS Guy]

Are there some designs that are better for filling the room for sound and not having a sweet spot? Our living room is not an ideal listening situation. We won't be nicely seated center of the room, with the TV on the front. My husband sits in the back of the room, and I sit on a side wall of this large 20x25x10ft room. I know horn tweeters tend to have a very exact sound spot, is there some kind of opposite to this? A speaker that has no specific cone of perfect seating to hear the best sound?

I would like to get a capable pair of towers, eventually building out a 5.1 system. We listen to music and play movies about 50/50. Current considerations are the SVS STS towers, Aperion 6T's, Emptek E55ti, Axiom M80s, and the NHT Absolute 5.1. I've decided on the Denon 3310ci to run the system. I'd love the speakers to be under 1k for the pair, open to buying refurbished to make my money go further. Will any of these that I am considering work?

This may be laughable to ask, but I am new to this. I've been listening to speakers -- and I am wondering, if I like I pair can I look at it's specs (dB sensitivity, wattage, Hz range) and compare it to online speakers to get an idea of how they will sound? Likewise, if there is a speaker I don't like the sound - does that translate at all into the benchmarks?

I suspect not so much - due to influence from the casing, materials used, etc.. but I just thought I would ask.

Thanks!

You can't evaluate a speaker from specs. Having said that a waterfall plot if available, will tell which speakers are not worth bothering with.

You need a powerful speakers with excellent on axis and off axis response, in your situation. That usually does not come cheap.

 

[Sera]

Thank you both. My goal is eventually a full 5.1 system, but my husband is actually the one that needs convincing. After reading various advice here I determined it would be best to buy the nicest towers I could and build out slowly, then get a junk 5.1 set.

TLS -- Would you give me some examples of speakers? (Any that are any where close to my budget would be ideal) So I can look at their specs and see what I am looking for? As a general guideline - what would be the parameters that "aren't worth bothering with" for my room?

My personal taste is for practical. I actually don't care for speakers that look like furniture or art. I would rather my money be going towards performance, not fashion.

Thanks again.

 

[Swerd]

As the previous posts said, speaker location and listening room do contribute significantly to how large or small a sweet spot can be. But there are some specific features of a loudspeaker for that help in making widely dispersed sound.

• Look for a speaker with a relatively narrow cabinet, such as 8" or 9" wide. This requires smaller woofers 5" to 6½" in diameter. You can go with one woofer or two (often called a Midwoofer-Tweeter-Midwoofer or MTM design). There are plenty like this.
  
  
• In a 2-way design (one or two midwoofers that crossover to one tweeter) look for a crossover frequency that is not too high. For a 5" woofer this can be in the range of about 2500-3000 Hz, and for a 6½" woofer this can be about 2000-2500 Hz.

In general, any speaker tends to broadcast sound widely if the wavelength is larger than the diameter of the speaker. Imagine light from a bare lightbulb. As the wavelength gets smaller (higher frequency), the sound tends to beam in a narrower pattern. Imagine light from a flashlight. This gets noticeable as the wavelength gets similar to or smaller than the diameter of the speaker. The idea is to limit the woofer to frequencies where it doesn’t beam in a narrow pattern. This has its greatest effect in the all important midrange. The difference in sound dispersion between dome tweeters and horn tweeters is heard well above the midrange where it has less of an effect.

A few speaker manufacturers publish frequency response curves measured both on-axis (with a microphone centered in front of a speaker) and off-axis (with a microphone 15-60 degrees off the side). When the on-axis and off-axis lines are relatively close to each other across all the midrange, a speaker has wide dispersion, and two of them in stereo will have a wider sweet spot.

The best example of tower speakers that do this well that I am familiar with are Salk SongTowers, but they cost more than your price range.

 

[flippo]

Mirage

Mirage have large sweetspots. would look at OS3 FS. If you don't have locally you can check out vanns or crutchfield

 

[j_garcia]

There are a pair of Mirage OM-5s in the classified section for a good price....

 

[AVRat]

Another option would be the PSB T5s: http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PBIMT5&variation=EACHE

 

[cornelius]

A great speaker with a big sweet spot are the Ohm Walsh series speakers. They're not quite omni-directional, but their unique design projects seamless sound into a room unlike any conventional speakers.

ohmspeakers.com If your interested, give them a call. John, the designer will give you advice on what to buy. Starting with two speakers seems like a good idea. With this design, you'll be fine without a center channel for a while...

 

[Sera]

Thanks again. I am looking at the Mirage OMD-15s that are on clearance at Vann's for $500 a speaker. Right in my price range and they seem to have a lot of potential as a good fit for our needs. I have a large room and the space to move them around. Of course, I am drooling over the OMD-28s... mmmm.. Slippery slope. The more you learn the more expensive what you want becomes.

 

[yepimonfire]

This may be laughable to ask, but I am new to this. I've been listening to speakers -- and I am wondering, if I like I pair can I look at it's specs (dB sensitivity, wattage, Hz range) and compare it to online speakers to get an idea of how they will sound? Likewise, if there is a speaker I don't like the sound - does that translate at all into the benchmarks?

I suspect not so much - due to influence from the casing, materials used, etc.. but I just thought I would ask.

Thanks!

no not really, unless you look at frequency response graphs, and unless your familiar with what exactly those graphs mean its not going to do any good, the only way to know how good a speaker is going to sound is to just listen to it. and by the way, from the ones i've heard, klipsch (the ones specifically with the wider horns) speakers have an extremly wide sweet spot. of course i havent had the chance to demo many speakers and so what other posters here have suggested may be and probably is a better idea.

the only way you can use the specs is by figuring out which speaker has deeper bass or how loud it plays. and even then some MFG. are stretching the truth about response a bit sometimes.

 

[Loren42]

Are there some designs that are better for filling the room for sound and not having a sweet spot? Our living room is not an ideal listening situation. We won't be nicely seated center of the room, with the TV on the front. My husband sits in the back of the room, and I sit on a side wall of this large 20x25x10ft room. I know horn tweeters tend to have a very exact sound spot, is there some kind of opposite to this? A speaker that has no specific cone of perfect seating to hear the best sound?

I would like to get a capable pair of towers, eventually building out a 5.1 system. We listen to music and play movies about 50/50. Current considerations are the SVS STS towers, Aperion 6T's, Emptek E55ti, Axiom M80s, and the NHT Absolute 5.1. I've decided on the Denon 3310ci to run the system. I'd love the speakers to be under 1k for the pair, open to buying refurbished to make my money go further. Will any of these that I am considering work?

This may be laughable to ask, but I am new to this. I've been listening to speakers -- and I am wondering, if I like I pair can I look at it's specs (dB sensitivity, wattage, Hz range) and compare it to online speakers to get an idea of how they will sound? Likewise, if there is a speaker I don't like the sound - does that translate at all into the benchmarks?

I suspect not so much - due to influence from the casing, materials used, etc.. but I just thought I would ask.

Thanks!

Horns are not known for beaming. On the contrary, good ones exhibit what is called controlled directivity, which means a wide dispersion area.

However, most horns suffer other problems.

The biggest challenges will be getting a system that does not beam sound and keeping lower frequency modes at bay.

You can drastically improve low end response with multiple subs located asymmetrically about the room.

To control the higher end beaming problem requires a loudspeaker with good off-axis response.

It is not clear what your budget is (I don't know what the loudspeakers cost that you mentioned), but one system that does a very good job with controlled directivity is the Gedlee loudspeakers by Earl Geddes.

As others have mentioned, you should also consider treating the room to reduce modes.

 

[swspiers]

A great speaker with a big sweet spot are the Ohm Walsh series speakers. They're not quite omni-directional, but their unique design projects seamless sound into a room unlike any conventional speakers.

ohmspeakers.com If your interested, give them a call. John, the designer will give you advice on what to buy. Starting with two speakers seems like a good idea. With this design, you'll be fine without a center channel for a while...

I have to second the Ohm's. All of their speakers are voiced to sound the same if used in the right sized room, and their quasi-omni design will give you exactly what you are looking for.

They do not have a dealer network, so it's kinda hard to hear them before you buy them, but they do have a 120-day in-home demonstration period that minimizes the risk.

Give them a call, or even PM me if you have any questions. And no- I'm not affiliated with Ohm in any way. I'm just a fan of their speakers...

 

[Sera]

I was shooting for 1k for the pair of towers, with some flexibility if the quality is just undeniably worth it.

I'm looking at the OMD-15s on sale at Vann's since the $500 speaker price down from $1200 is attractive and the omni sound may be the closest to what I was hoping for. We're actually considering the entire set which includes the matching center, surrounds and sub for $2k. I'm a little tentative since I have no experience with this kind of speaker.

We're also comparing off axis performance of traditional speakers to find others that fit our needs. I came across This and Thisat Sound stage which shows measurements on some popular brands up to 75 degrees off axis. The information you guys have provided has really helped understand which speakers really won't work.

It's very interesting to compare. There are actually some towers that do very well off axis. I still haven't ruled out the regular towers like the Axiom M80s, EMP E55Ti, Aperion 6T, SVS STS, etc. I've ordered my Denon 3310ci - so clock is ticking! I'm driving my husband nuts with all my research.

 

[DLeague]

I was shooting for 1k for the pair of towers, with some flexibility if the quality is just undeniably worth it.

I'm looking at the OMD-15s on sale at Vann's since the $500 speaker price down from $1200 is attractive and the omni sound may be the closest to what I was hoping for. We're actually considering the entire set which includes the matching center, surrounds and sub for $2k. I'm a little tentative since I have no experience with this kind of speaker.

We're also comparing off axis performance of traditional speakers to find others that fit our needs. I came across This and Thisat Sound stage which shows measurements on some popular brands up to 75 degrees off axis. The information you guys have provided has really helped understand which speakers really won't work.

It's very interesting to compare. There are actually some towers that do very well off axis. I still haven't ruled out the regular towers like the Axiom M80s, EMP E55Ti, Aperion 6T, SVS STS, etc. I've ordered my Denon 3310ci - so clock is ticking! I'm driving my husband nuts with all my research.

I don't want to cause any more anxiety, but I have two more brands you need to add to your list: Jamo (C607, C807, C809), Swans (Diva's 5.2 and 6.2). These speakers will take you up to the lower echelons of audiophile without totally destroying your budget.

 

[3db]

Here's an analogy of a sweet spot. Take a magnifying glass and trying burning paper with it using sunlight. The smallest spot that shows up on the papaer which causes it to burn is smilare to the sweet spot of a speaker system. At this point, you will get the best definition and soundstage from speakers. As you pull the magnifying glass away from the paper, the spot gets increasingly larger but less intense so that it cannot burn the paper. When you move further awy from the speakers, you'll find holes in the soundstage. At least that is with conventional drivers. Speakers such as the Mirages that you are looking at are omni directional. You'll never get pinpoint imaging from that set up (burning the paper) but you won't get holes in your soundstage when you move further away them. I think the omin directionals such as the Mirage are your best bet. Only the mids and the highs are directional. Bass is omni directional by nature and is one of the reasons why Mirage uses a conventional driver for the woofer. Hope this helps.

 

[Tiguron]

I had a similar dilema and went with Mirage as well. I have a 7.1 setup with the OM-9s (previous generation to the OMD) as my front towers. My room is about 14 feet wide, 25 feet long and 8 foot ceilings.

They fill the room very well with sound. There is no spot that sounds bad. I have even had my head a few inches from the side of the speaker and still enjoyed the sound. You will never get a perfect sweet spot from them, but you will also not have a bad seat.

The only caveat is spacing. I can't speak for the OMD's, but all mirage speakers need some room to breathe. The OMD's put a little more sound forward than mine so they should be a little less picky. Make sure you can put them at least 2 feet from the rear wall. They still sound okay if they are tight to the wall, but they come alive if given some room.