Speaker clarity and speaker size

[jcroasii]

Hey all,

I have a couple quick questions in selecting speakers.

I know there are many attributes that define what a good speaker should have but im interested in what attributes make a speaker clear and bright sounding.

My inclination is to believe that the speaker material is most important, but im sure to get a clear sound in a system, you have to make sure the system is configured properly.

So, what make a speaker sound clear? What attributes should i look for?

One other question. If i have a 65 inch tv, does the size of the speaker matter? I see many good speakers that are bookshelf and others that are long wallmount, like definitive. Does it matter the length of the speaker or only where you point it?

Thanks all

 

[jostenmeat]

jcroasii, you ask an extraordinarily difficult question(s).

I am still scratching the surface myself.

I think the fastest learning curve to understand how someone derives the best circumstance/compromise of design for a given budget, size, and aesthetics, is to buy speaker building books, hang out with builders, and start making them.

It just looks like a box with drivers, but damn there is a ton of math behind it.

The size limitations, whether large or small, are often determined by the design itself. Then the driver choices may determine which designs are even possible to begin with.

The material itself is probably one of the least important things to consider, in the grand scheme.

The goal is linear response, that you can then tailor to taste with EQ, perhaps.

For some, having rather linear response at greater offaxis angles is of very high importance.

Passive xovers are naturally complex, and so one would hope to keep it away from the speech discrimination band, and that would be at the very least as high as 2khz for tweeter, if not double that.

Just for diffraction (which makes certain frequencies abnormally louder than others when "freestanding"; different design parameters for infinite baffle aka inwall), there is a lot to it, and I just learned this stuff very recently. There may dimples on your baffle, or having a rounded sloped baffle, or at least having rounded edges, with drivers asymmetrically and strategically placed so that diffraction effects are evened out so to speak. See, this is just one thing of many other things.

The speaker is basically comprised of three things, the drivers, cabinet and xover(s). For some experts it is the driver choice that is paramount, and the lowest common denominator of how good the speaker can sound. Then others would tell you the cabinet is the most expensive part of a speaker purchase. Others yet would tell you when you listen to a speaker, you are listening to the xover.

It's really an overall design of high complexity at times.

 

[son-yah-tive]

Jostens right. Even, after all he explained, you my not find what your looking for. Room demensions, size, and ceiling all play a part. Even window placement. But I realized as time went by, the higher the retail price, the better it sounds. After almost 40 years, that's how it worked for me. But it's a lot easier now than ever to find a deal on speakers with the internet. Compared to just 10 years ago, when you just had a few stores to buy good speakers from. You were stuck.

 

[sholling]

Hey all,

I have a couple quick questions in selecting speakers.

I know there are many attributes that define what a good speaker should have but im interested in what attributes make a speaker clear and bright sounding.

My inclination is to believe that the speaker material is most important, but im sure to get a clear sound in a system, you have to make sure the system is configured properly.

I'm not even going to attempt this because it's well beyond my level of knowledge. I suggest spending a few hours or more more reading articles in the Audioholics AV university area on the main site. There's some great information there. Once you're ready for the advanced course there are a few books I've seen recommended. Anyway here's just a sample from the Audioholics AV University... Loudspeaker Basics and How to Judge Loudspeakers - Sound and Accuracy. When you finish those there's a section on room acoustics.

One other question. If i have a 65 inch tv, does the size of the speaker matter? I see many good speakers that are bookshelf and others that are long wallmount, like definitive. Does it matter the length of the speaker or only where you point it?

Home audio speakers boil down to three basic types. 1) Towers which are good at filling larger rooms. 2) Bookshelves which in small to medium sized rooms often offer more sound quality better bang for the buck than towers because smaller boxes with fewer drivers leaves more money for better components. 3) "lifestyle" speakers which often put room aesthetics over function to one degree or another. These include super skinny towers, flat wall mountable speakers, small micro speakers and satellites, and the dreaded Boses cubes. Not all lifestyle speakers are terrible but they are compromises. The laws of physics can be bent a little bit but not broken.

 

[sptrout]

Although the posts in the following link (the first three posts) are not directly related to the OP's questions, they do cover a lot of material that does seem to closely fit at least indirectly. In any case it is an excellent thread about speech intelligibility and many other related topics:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/audio-theory-discussion/161389-why-do-we-need-equalization-room-correction.html

 

[Seth=L]

My inclination is to believe that the speaker material is most important

Speaker material is certainly not the most important. It's difficult to place a level of importance on one part or another because how a speaker sounds is the sum of its parts and the room it is used in. If I had to place a special amount of signifigance to the sonic signature of a speaker system it would be in the crossover. A poorly designed and executed crossover with excellent drivers would yeild poor sound. A crossover designed to complement the drivers and the cabinet parameters could yeild good sound with lower quality drivers. There are exceptions to every rule, so it is possible for the quality of the drivers to be so low that a crossover would not improve the sound much if at all.

 

[highfigh]

Hey all,

I have a couple quick questions in selecting speakers.

I know there are many attributes that define what a good speaker should have but im interested in what attributes make a speaker clear and bright sounding.

My inclination is to believe that the speaker material is most important, but im sure to get a clear sound in a system, you have to make sure the system is configured properly.

So, what make a speaker sound clear? What attributes should i look for?

One other question. If i have a 65 inch tv, does the size of the speaker matter? I see many good speakers that are bookshelf and others that are long wallmount, like definitive. Does it matter the length of the speaker or only where you point it?

Thanks all

Little, dinky speakers don't provide lower frequencies unless they're in a small space and/or the listener is close to them. The only other way they can do anything in the lower ranges is if they're placed in a position with two walls and a floor or ceiling to use the reflections to the speakers' benefit. Even then, power handling will be an issue.

There's a lot involved with getting good sound from speakers and part of it is their location. If they're on the end of a wall, quite a bit of sound that would normally be reflected toward the listener is lost because there's no wall surface to reflect from. The same happens if they're mounted on the edge of a wall, only more is lost. If the TV is on a long wall and the speakers are placed at the sides or in a LCR configuration, it can sound pretty good, but the speakers need to be high quality.

A crossover won't improve the sound from speakers, per se. A properly designed crossover, which can't even be started until the speakers' response and other characteristics are known through testing, will allow the correct frequencies to go to each driver, with attention paid to the slope of the filters, will correct losses from using a narrow cabinet baffle and may need to reverse the polarity of certain drivers because of the filters' effect on phase. Sometimes, the tweeter needs to be set back from the face of the baffle because the voice coils aren't on the same geometric plane. If this isn't done, serious phase issues will result and the sound will be very harsh.

A speaker system is a series of compromises.

 

[JerryLove]

I know there are many attributes that define what a good speaker should have but im interested in what attributes make a speaker clear and bright sounding.

"Bright" is generally a descriptor for elevated SPL in upper-mid to tweeter range. I couldn't put a specific freq. range, but let's call it 2500Hz+

My inclination is to believe that the speaker material is most important, but im sure to get a clear sound in a system, you have to make sure the system is configured properly.

Your inclanation is wrong. Speaker cones have been made of metal, rock, paper, and plasma.

Also, the entire concept of "most important" relies on the false premise that there's a lack of interdependance. Which is the most important part of a swingset: the seat, the chain, or the frame?

So, what make a speaker sound clear? What attributes should i look for?

Define "clear".

For a definition I'd use we need to talk about cabinet resonance, accurate off-axis response, cone breakup (a lack thereof), and good damping.

One other question. If i have a 65 inch tv, does the size of the speaker matter? I see many good speakers that are bookshelf and others that are long wallmount, like definitive. Does it matter the length of the speaker or only where you point it?

Speaker size has no relationship to TV size.

However, if you are using a THX standard, then you are at least 98" (7.5 ft) from the TV... setting your minimum room size at 8'x5'. There is a relationship between speaker size, room size, and listening volume (though there are several other variables involved).

 

[lsiberian]

There are three main components that make a speakers
The Drivers, the enclosure, and the crossover.

These days drivers are normally excellent, but Infinity and B&W are the top driver makers in the midrange band for sure. Tweeters have all sorts of directions, but soft dome and planar are easily distinguished. Woofer technology has improved a lot.

Enclosures need bracing and damping. Both are labor intensive so few speakers do this well. A knuckle wrap test can be helpful.

The crossover is voiced for the design room normally. Not your house so keep that in mind. Crossover issues can be corrected with EQ, but it is still nice to have a quality crossover. Speakers with a sensitivity above 90 probably don't have a complex crossover. There are always exceptions, but it is a general rule to guide you.

At the end of the day I suggest going with a reputable brand with good customer service. Good placement and setup can make even the cheapest good speakers(behringer 2030p) amazing.

 

[Pyrrho]

Hey all,

I have a couple quick questions in selecting speakers.

I know there are many attributes that define what a good speaker should have but im interested in what attributes make a speaker clear and bright sounding.

My inclination is to believe that the speaker material is most important, but im sure to get a clear sound in a system, you have to make sure the system is configured properly.

So, what make a speaker sound clear? What attributes should i look for?

One other question. If i have a 65 inch tv, does the size of the speaker matter? I see many good speakers that are bookshelf and others that are long wallmount, like definitive. Does it matter the length of the speaker or only where you point it?

Thanks all

As others have said, speaker material is not the most important. If it were, all speakers (or at least all expensive speakers) would be made from whatever material was best. For a speaker to sound clear, generally one wants low distortion (particularly in the midrange, where human hearing is most sensitive) and a flat frequency response (on whatever axis one is positioned relative to the speaker).

As for speaker size, generally speaking, with conventional speakers, one needs about a 5" woofer (or larger) to go down flat to below 80 Hz, the THX recommended frequency for blending the sound with a subwoofer. If you want really good sound, look for a speaker whose -3dB point is 80Hz or lower if you want to be unable to locate your subwoofer by sound alone (which one ought not be able to locate by sound alone in a properly set up system).

In practice, one generally is best served by listening to a variety of speakers with all of the different types of music one will listen to, and select the ones that sound the best to one. This is because all speakers are a compromise between various attributes (there is no such thing as a perfect speaker, though more tends to be compromised at the lower end of the price spectrum, and also when attempts are made to make the speaker very small or very slim in order to be unobtrusive in the room). And it is also due to the fact that speaker manufacturers do not list all of the relevant attributes of a speaker, and most people would be unable to understand them even if they were presented, so listening is the way to decide. You can, of course, also read reviews if you want, though I recommend only using reviews that involve actual measurements and use them only for suggested speakers to audition for oneself, not for actually making a final decision.

 

[j_garcia]

Here is the short answer (and more or less the same thing that Pyrrho is saying): go listen to a bunch speakers. The more you listen to, the more of a feel for what characteristics there are that you like and that will let you pick the speakers that sound most appropriate for you.

 

[cerwinmad]

Speaker choice is such a personel thing, it is hard to base a buying decision on anothers preference (except subwoofers, good bass is good bass!) for example, i wanted HUGE volume and impact, so i went with my Cerwin Vegas for my H/T, many would balk at the idea, but for what i wanted and the intended use, they are perfect. musically they are ok, definitely better out there, but for sheer exsplosive volume on movies, i couldnt find better for the price. smaller, better speakers would not suit me, but would suit the music lover perfectly.