Speaker Cables for "Bright" Systems?

[PghDude]

Hello: I've been lurching around here for some time now as I am making a few upgrades to our HT system. I do now need to run new cables to all 5 speakers and the sub.

Prior to going through these threads, I must confess, I likely would have dropped much more cash than I should have on about 120' or so of something. Now, I'm thinking I'll probably go with 12 akg BlueJeans, primarily because I have been surrounding by SoundKing-looking wires for a few decades now.

My question though, is I have a "bright" receiver (Yamaha RX-V795) with "bright" Infinitys. Other than sticking with copper over anything silver (which I doubt I would spring for at this point anyways), is there anything I should consider for avoiding a potentially harsh sounding system?

Any thoughts or advice is appreciated. Lastly, I should mention that I am not on such a tight budget that I would not consider something more expensive than what I've listed above, I just don't want to be wasting money if I do. Thanks.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hello: I've been lurching around here for some time now as I am making a few upgrades to our HT system. I do now need to run new cables to all 5 speakers and the sub.

Do you need new cables because the old ones no longer reach? If so, get the same cables but longer

Now, I'm thinking I'll probably go with 12 akg BlueJeans, primarily because I have been surrounding by SoundKing-looking wires for a few decades now.

That is not a good reason to switch cable brands, unless you just want better looking or different looking cables and they are visible all the time.


My question though, is I have a "bright" receiver (Yamaha RX-V795) with "bright" Infinitys. Other than sticking with copper over anything silver (which I doubt I would spring for at this point anyways), is there anything I should consider for avoiding a potentially harsh sounding system?

Firstly, the Yamaha is not a bright receiver. Cannot speak about the speakers response, but your room has a whole lot to do with sound and no cable will cure that problem. There is absolutely nothing wrong with copper cables, ZERO. Has nothing to do with sound of cables that do not exist.

You need to do something with your rooms acoustics to solve your problems.

I just don't want to be wasting money if I do. Thanks.


You would be wasting with more expensive cables that cannot solve your problems Spend your money on room acoustics, or even different speakers on top of the room acoustic fix. You may need both fixed.

 

[PghDude]

Thanks for the reply "mtrycrafts". I am replacing the cables as what I have is 16 guage I believe and all the lengths were cut routing the cables a different general way then I will be this time.

As to your thoughts regarding my room's accoustics, frankly, I can't reply to them as I simply don't know yet. The room this is going in is approx 22'x14' and wall-to-wall carpetted. What I have now is my initial foray into HT, though I've been constantly tinkering with my 2-channel system(s) for years. To gain the WAF (real or perceived) I purchased the Klipsch Quintet system back before the price fell to 1/2 or less and it fell into the HTIB catergory perhaps. Sound fine for what they are, actually surprisingly so, but still clearly a sat(micro at that)/sub sounding system. All I know about that Yamaha is what it sounded like with them and I have no complaints.
As I recently pulled a pair of Infinity Overture 1's out of 2-channel service, I decided to put them to use. Still small, but withe more or similar such speakers, should have a greater room presence and still be able to do my upgrade for 3, and not 4, digits. The 1's will be my rears, Overture 2's will be the fronts (once they arrive) and I have yet to unbox the NOS Overture CC.

As to the accoustics, I have learned that I need to experiment more and not simply commit them to the most aesthetically unobtrusive locations.

I guess to end this saga, I was inquiring as to whether I was taking my "new found" simplization of the whole "speaker cable issue" too far. I was happily ready to plunk down $40 or so for new wiring. I read your thoughts as primarily "are you sure you need to?" which I appreciate. You have answered my question. (Sorry for the book.)

 

[jaxvon]

I would definitely go for some 10ga or 12ga speaker cable. At higher lengths, 16ga can actually cause signal attenuation due to resistive loss. The best place to get 12ga, in-wall rated wire (Belden 5000UE) is Westlake Electronic. It isn't sexy looking cable, but it's high-quality, good for running in-wall, and will have nice low resistance, inductance, and capacitance.

If you have to make the cables look prettier, check on getting some TechFlex from Parts Express or Westlake and some shrink tubing. This of course is purely for aesthetics.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I guess to end this saga, I was inquiring as to whether I was taking my "new found" simplization of the whole "speaker cable issue" too far. I was happily ready to plunk down $40 or so for new wiring. I read your thoughts as primarily "are you sure you need to?" which I appreciate. You have answered my question. (Sorry for the book.)

How long will your new cables need to be? 16 ga would be fine to 25ft or so, 14 ga longer. No need for fancy, expensive wires to meet your needs

 

[MAGNUMMAN]

For bright systems I always recommend any cable in the Cardas line. Cardas cables are warm sounding and very musical. Another approach would be to dump your Yamaha and at least get a decent A/V reciever like a NAD or Cambridge. I would also dump the Infinitis and get some good speakers like Epos, Dynaudio, Quad, Monitor Audio, etc.

 

[Privateer]

Cables do not make a difference.

 

[MDS]

As the Audioholics say 'Only poorly designed cables make a difference'. Not saying Cardas cables are poorly designed, but if they are 'warm', then by design they roll off the highs quickly (excessive capacitance or inductance??).

It's better to tame the brightness of the room than to buy cables that are intentionally made to impart their own characteristic sound.

 

[mtrycrafts]

For bright systems I always recommend any cable in the Cardas line. Cardas cables are warm sounding and very musical. Another approach would be to dump your Yamaha and at least get a decent A/V reciever like a NAD or Cambridge. I would also dump the Infinitis and get some good speakers like Epos, Dynaudio, Quad, Monitor Audio, etc.

His Yam is just fine
Do you have specs for those Cardas cables? Maybe it is just urban legend what people try to claim for them

 

[PghDude]

Thanks to all who responded

For bright systems I always recommend any cable in the Cardas line. Cardas cables are warm sounding and very musical. Another approach would be to dump your Yamaha and at least get a decent A/V reciever like a NAD or Cambridge. I would also dump the Infinitis and get some good speakers like Epos, Dynaudio, Quad, Monitor Audio, etc.

I appreciate the thoughts of you and all others who responded. While your suggestion that I buy all new equipment was no doubt meant to be constructive, I am looking to upgrade what I have w/o breaking the bank and using speakers otherwise collecting dust. If I were to start from scratch, I do think my system would look significantly different. I do think it will now fill the room with sound whereas my previous system simply could not.

Prior to posting, I had intended to simply buy 12 guage Belden cable. I do not know how the Infinity Overtures will sound with my Yamaha, but was just curious as to whether my "new" belief that cable is cable, so long as it is not defective, was too simplistic. In any event, I went ahead and spent about $22 for 120' of the Belden wire from Westlake, no doubt saving considerable $$ from what I would have done a few months previous.

Thanks again.

 

[pikers]

I would definitely go for some 10ga or 12ga speaker cable. At higher lengths, 16ga can actually cause signal attenuation due to resistive loss. The best place to get 12ga, in-wall rated wire (Belden 5000UE) is Westlake Electronic. It isn't sexy looking cable, but it's high-quality, good for running in-wall, and will have nice low resistance, inductance, and capacitance.

If you have to make the cables look prettier, check on getting some TechFlex from Parts Express or Westlake and some shrink tubing. This of course is purely for aesthetics.

Problem is, it will choke bass more than treble.

MITs cables are generally thought to (purposefully) roll-off the upper end. Better in your case, not so much to others...

 

[gene]

Do you have specs for those Cardas cables?

We measured Cardas cables in Speaker Cable Face Off II I believe. They were merely average in performance and a tad pricey IMO.

Another approach would be to dump your Yamaha and at least get a decent A/V reciever like a NAD or Cambridge.

Thats an interesting comment about decent considering Yamaha receivers typically have superior bass management, noise floor and processing to the alternative ones you mentioned. As we have shown in our reviews, the upper end Yamaha's have very competent amp sections and pretty much all of them have great preamp sections too.

Before dumping more money on equipment or "magical" cables, I strongly suggest addressing speaker placement and room acoustics issues. It's odd that people first recommend buying more gear before getting the basics right, especially the one that has the most impact on sound - your room.

 

[korgoth]

he's smart..


and yeah, 14 guage is fine for 25 feet or less...

go get some cable at home depot or anywhere.. the difference in sound will probobly not be audible even to professional ears.

 

[BMXTRIX]

he's smart..


and yeah, 14 guage is fine for 25 feet or less...

go get some cable at home depot or anywhere.. the difference in sound will probobly not be audible even to professional ears.

Sure it will be audible...

as long as they see the brand of cable BEFORE they are asked to give an opinion on sound quality.

GENE: Thanks for an excellent response. I couldn't have said it nearly as kindly as you.

 

[mtrycrafts]

MITs cables are generally thought to (purposefully) roll-off the upper end. Better in your case, not so much to others...

I'd like to see the frequency response plot on those cables first before jumping to conclusions about the box on it.
The two patents that MIT has is for RFI control, not to roll off your 20kHz signals.

 

[mtrycrafts]

As the Audioholics say 'Only poorly designed cables make a difference'. Not saying Cardas cables are poorly designed, but if they are 'warm', then by design they roll off the highs quickly (excessive capacitance or inductance??).

In a speaker cable, it is the inductance that would roll off the high end, lots of it. I doubt Cardas has that much.

Excessive capacitance in a speaker cable can force a poorly designed amp to oscillate. Naim is know to do this and needs low cap cables, or goodby.

 

[pikers]

I'd like to see the frequency response plot on those cables first before jumping to conclusions about the box on it.
The two patents that MIT has is for RFI control, not to roll off your 20kHz signals.

Then explain why it happens. This outside perspective of well-known truisms by people that know the gear (not Scientific American) make me chuckle.

Scientists always look for ways to test a hypothesis. DBTs with MIT are easy, easy, easy.

Again, it isn't necessarily a positive, as it depends on what speakers you have.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Then explain why it happens.

You cannot handle the truth.
But, have you heard imagination? Brain trickery?



Scientists always look for ways to test a hypothesis. DBTs with MIT are easy, easy, easy.


Yes, very. Have you done one? Can you demonstrate it?


Again, it isn't necessarily a positive, as it depends on what speakers you have.

Actually, it doesn't depend on this. But what else is news?

 

[pikers]

Then explain why it happens.

You cannot handle the truth.
But, have you heard imagination? Brain trickery?



Scientists always look for ways to test a hypothesis. DBTs with MIT are easy, easy, easy.


Yes, very. Have you done one? Can you demonstrate it?


Again, it isn't necessarily a positive, as it depends on what speakers you have.

Actually, it doesn't depend on this. But what else is news?

It doesn't depend on this? Is there a reason why you're allowed to post ridiculous things like this, or are you a moderator?

If you have a bright speaker and want better cabling for other reasons, you would select the correct MIT product. There are others that do this, but they're known for it.

Your prodding is simply flame-bait, but then you've been know for that for years...

 

[mtrycrafts]

It doesn't depend on this? Is there a reason why you're allowed to post ridiculous things like this, or are you a moderator?

Do you see a 'moderator' with my moniker?

What is ridiculous? Why? Please explain. Could it be that you are mistaken???

If you have a bright speaker and want better cabling for other reasons, you would select the correct MIT product. There are others that do this, but they're known for it.

Actually, if you have a bright speaker, as you say, you would do effective fixes for it, not speaker cables. It just cannot do what you are wishing it could do.
Maybe your room is too bright? Have you thought of EQing yoru room???

Your prodding is simply flame-bait, but then you've been know for that for years...

Years??? You just got here. And, if you know me from some other place, I guess the years didn't increase your knowledge base in audio science and reality. Not my fault.