Speaker Cable Length

[Miniperl]

Hello,
I’m thinking of replacing my subwoofer with a model that has speaker level inputs due to connectivity challenges with my integrated amplifier, streamer & dac. My integrated amp does have 2 sets of binding posts. A & B. My current subwoofer is positioned between my main speakers next to my audio rack. My main speakers are connected to my amp with 5 foot lengths of cable. I have a somewhat small room. The mains a 6 feet apart. If I connect the new sub to my amp with 2-3 foot length of speaker cable, will that cause any problems, like phase for instance? I would appreciate any courteous, constructive feedback. Thank you.

 

[flyboylr45]

Short answer, NOPE.

 

[everettT]

Hello,
I’m thinking of replacing my subwoofer with a model that has speaker level inputs due to connectivity challenges with my integrated amplifier, streamer & dac. My integrated amp does have 2 sets of binding posts. A & B. My current subwoofer is positioned between my main speakers next to my audio rack. My main speakers are connected to my amp with 5 foot lengths of cable. I have a somewhat small room. The mains a 6 feet apart. If I connect the new sub to my amp with 2-3 foot length of speaker cable, will that cause any problems, like phase for instance? I would appreciate any courteous, constructive feedback. Thank you.

What sub, what integrated amp? It's always better to use coax no matter what some manufacturer says, ie REL. Using the A+B is the wrong solution even if you wanted to use speaker cable, which isn't shielded. You would want to run the A out to the sub, and then the sub out to the mains. If your integrated has a sub or main out use it.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hello,
I’m thinking of replacing my subwoofer with a model that has speaker level inputs due to connectivity challenges with my integrated amplifier, streamer & dac. My integrated amp does have 2 sets of binding posts. A & B. My current subwoofer is positioned between my main speakers next to my audio rack. My main speakers are connected to my amp with 5 foot lengths of cable. I have a somewhat small room. The mains a 6 feet apart. If I connect the new sub to my amp with 2-3 foot length of speaker cable, will that cause any problems, like phase for instance? I would appreciate any courteous, constructive feedback. Thank you.

A & B outputs are parallel outputs and not discrete. So it all hangs on what the impedance of those speaker level inputs is. I suspect they are high impedance, but I don't know. Speaker level inputs are in general a poor choice. I suspect you have an old two channel receiver with no sub outs or bass management. Those units were not built for the current era.

 

[Miniperl]

I have a new Denon PMA1700NE that has no sub or pre-outs. I would be purchasing the RSL Speedwoofer 10S MKii.

 

[everettT]

I have a new Denon PMA1700NE that has no sub or pre-outs. I would be purchasing the RSL Speedwoofer 10S MKii.

Unfortunately the speaker level is your only option. As I mentioned, you need to feed the subwoofer with the A output of the Marantz and then feed your speakers from the RSL. If you haven't purchased the Marantz yet you may want to reconsider your options.

 

[Miniperl]

The new RSL I’m considering has speaker level inputs. No speaker level outputs. This whole problem stems from the fact the the WiiM Ultra that I’m using as a streamer has a sub output. But I have the WiiM set to fixed output so I can control the volume from the Denon. By having the WiiM set to fixed output, the line level & the sub output is also set to fixed, which has those outputs at 100 and maxed out. This makes my existing RSL Speedwoofer 10E sub very loud & boomy. It’s now difficult to integrate the sub with my main speakers. Unless I turn the gain down on the sub to 8:30 to 9:00. Even then I find myself constantly adjusting it through the WiiM app. I thought by switching to a subwoofer with speaker level inputs, it would integrate better with my main speakers. But as usual, it’s always easier said than done. Thank you for your input.

 

[everettT]

The new RSL I’m considering has speaker level inputs. No speaker level outputs. This whole problem stems from the fact the the WiiM Ultra that I’m using as a streamer has a sub output. But I have the WiiM set to fixed output so I can control the volume from the Denon. By having the WiiM set to fixed output, the line level & the sub output is also set to fixed, which has those outputs at 100 and maxed out. This makes my existing RSL Speedwoofer 10E sub very loud & boomy. It’s now difficult to integrate the sub with my main speakers. Unless I turn the gain down on the sub to 8:30 to 9:00. Even then I find myself constantly adjusting it through the WiiM app. I thought by switching to a subwoofer with speaker level inputs, it would integrate better with my main speakers. But as usual, it’s always easier said than done. Thank you for your input.

Sorry I kept calling it a Marantz, brain is still on turkey. How do you have the WiiM connected? I understand your issue but as @TLS Guy mentioned there could be an impedance issue. You can try it but it might present your speakers with a half load which isn't good. I'd start with low volume since you don't have a way to high pass your speakers.

 

[Miniperl]

The WiiM is connected to an SMSL RAW DAC1 via usb then into the Denon via rca out from the SMSL. The fact is, I love the sound I’m getting from this setup through my Monitor Audio Silver 300 7g speakers. The Denon is a great amp IMO. I just wish it had a set of pre-outs. The owners manual said I can connect a subwoofer with speaker level inputs to either speaker A or B on the amplifier. Maybe I’ll give it a shot. Thanks again for your time and insight.

 

[highfigh]

The WiiM is connected to an SMSL RAW DAC1 via usb then into the Denon via rca out from the SMSL. The fact is, I love the sound I’m getting from this setup through my Monitor Audio Silver 300 7g speakers. The Denon is a great amp IMO. I just wish it had a set of pre-outs. The owners manual said I can connect a subwoofer with speaker level inputs to either speaker A or B on the amplifier. Maybe I’ll give it a shot. Thanks again for your time and insight.

The speaker level input is high impedance, so it won't have a large effect on the Denon.

If you love the sound from your Monitor speakers, why do you need a subwoofer which, as you're finding, isn't just a lug and play- you'll also have to deal with correct placement and other considerations. IMO, a pair of really good or great speakers should be enough to provide very good low freqwuency response without needing to learn to setup and control the DSP and if you look at the specs for your speakers AND the sub, you won't be adding much, but that's not as easy to know because the Monitor specs show the in-room response with -6dB. They need to provide graphs.

The good part- this sub has 0-180 degree phase control, so placement will be easier than if it had a 0/180 degree switch.

Look at the rear of the Denon for impedance info- it's below the binding posts.

 

[Miniperl]

The WiiM is connected to an SMSL RAW DAC1 via usb then into the Denon via rca out from the SMSL. The fact is, I love the sound I’m getting from this setup through my Monitor Audio Silver 300 7g speakers. The Denon is a great amp IMO. I just wish it had a set of pre-outs. The owners manual said I can connect a subwoofer with speaker level inputs to either speaker A or B on the amplifier. Maybe I’ll give it a shot. Thanks again for your time and insight.

The speaker level input is high impedance, so it won't have a large effect on the Denon.

If you love the sound from your Monitor speakers, why do you need a subwoofer which, as you're finding, isn't just a lug and play- you'll also have to deal with correct placement and other considerations. IMO, a pair of really good or great speakers should be enough to provide very good low freqwuency response without needing to learn to setup and control the DSP and if you look at the specs for your speakers AND the sub, you won't be adding much, but that's not as easy to know because the Monitor specs show the in-room response with -6dB. They need to provide graphs.

The good part- this sub has 0-180 degree phase control, so placement will be easier than if it had a 0/180 degree switch.

Look at the rear of the Denon for impedance info- it's below the binding posts.

The speaker level input is high impedance, so it won't have a large effect on the Denon.

If you love the sound from your Monitor speakers, why do you need a subwoofer which, as you're finding, isn't just a lug and play- you'll also have to deal with correct placement and other considerations. IMO, a pair of really good or great speakers should be enough to provide very good low freqwuency response without needing to learn to setup and control the DSP and if you look at the specs for your speakers AND the sub, you won't be adding much, but that's not as easy to know because the Monitor specs show the in-room response with -6dB. They need to provide graphs.

The good part- this sub has 0-180 degree phase control, so placement will be easier than if it had a 0/180 degree switch.

Look at the rear of the Denon for impedance info- it's below the binding posts.

The speaker level input is high impedance, so it won't have a large effect on the Denon.

If you love the sound from your Monitor speakers, why do you need a subwoofer which, as you're finding, isn't just a lug and play- you'll also have to deal with correct placement and other considerations. IMO, a pair of really good or great speakers should be enough to provide very good low freqwuency response without needing to learn to setup and control the DSP and if you look at the specs for your speakers AND the sub, you won't be adding much, but that's not as easy to know because the Monitor specs show the in-room response with -6dB. They need to provide graphs.

The good part- this sub has 0-180 degree phase control, so placement will be easier than if it had a 0/180 degree switch.

Look at the rear of the Denon for impedance info- it's below the binding posts.

The speaker level input is high impedance, so it won't have a large effect on the Denon.

If you love the sound from your Monitor speakers, why do you need a subwoofer which, as you're finding, isn't just a lug and play- you'll also have to deal with correct placement and other considerations. IMO, a pair of really good or great speakers should be enough to provide very good low freqwuency response without needing to learn to setup and control the DSP and if you look at the specs for your speakers AND the sub, you won't be adding much, but that's not as easy to know because the Monitor specs show the in-room response with -6dB. They need to provide graphs.

The good part- this sub has 0-180 degree phase control, so placement will be easier than if it had a 0/180 degree switch.

Look at the rear of the Denon for impedance info- it's below the binding posts.

This is what’s printed below the binding posts on the Denon, “Impedance: A or B 4-16 ohms. A & B 8-16 ohms. Bi-wiring 4-16 ohms”. The RSL Speedwoofer 10S MKii is rated at 4 ohms nominal. So I suppose connecting that sub via speaker level inputs would be a no go? I do love the sound I’m getting from this setup, but there are some recordings that would benefit from a sub.

 

[highfigh]

This is what’s printed below the binding posts on the Denon, “Impedance: A or B 4-16 ohms. A & B 8-16 ohms. Bi-wiring 4-16 ohms”. The RSL Speedwoofer 10S MKii is rated at 4 ohms nominal. So I suppose connecting that sub via speaker level inputs would be a no go? I do love the sound I’m getting from this setup, but there are some recordings that would benefit from a sub.

.

I know what's on the Denon.

The 4 Ohm rating of the RSL is for the driver, not the input- I don't believe I have seen a speaker level input that was 4 Ohms.

I sent an e-mail to RSL about this and they sent the basic "It won't damage the equipment, etc" reply.

 

[lovinthehd]

.

I know what's on the Denon.

The 4 Ohm rating of the RSL is for the driver, not the input- I don't believe I have seen a speaker level input that was 4 Ohms.

I sent an e-mail to RSL about this and they sent the basic "It won't damage the equipment, etc" reply.

I was wondering what RSL would say. I expected as much, doubtful anything in this gear would be an issue with the proposed use.

 

[Miniperl]

I appreciate you taking the time to investigate and reply. I did call Denon and explained what my intentions were. The person I spoke to, who sounded about as knowledgeable as I do, said that the amplifier is designed to run 2 sets of speakers at the correct impedance if needed. Not a pair of speakers and a powered subwoofer.

 

[everettT]

I appreciate you taking the time to investigate and reply. I did call Denon and explained what my intentions were. The person I spoke to, who sounded about as knowledgeable as I do, said that the amplifier is designed to run 2 sets of speakers at the correct impedance if needed. Not a pair of speakers and a powered subwoofer.

I'm not sure what load is going to be shown to your mains if running it this way and as I mentioned, just start slowly to be safe. I'm assuming that it will be ok this way and Denon (FWIW) seems to think so. Really disappointed that they did leave even a preout for the mains at that price point.Good luck and hope it all works out for the best!

 

[lovinthehd]

I appreciate you taking the time to investigate and reply. I did call Denon and explained what my intentions were. The person I spoke to, who sounded about as knowledgeable as I do, said that the amplifier is designed to run 2 sets of speakers at the correct impedance if needed. Not a pair of speakers and a powered subwoofer.

Yeah the initial phone person in customer service likely doesn't know much beyond a script. The impedance value of the sub's input is generally much higher than for a speaker (as was said, the 4 ohm rating is between the driver and the sub's amp). Too bad they can't be bothered with even a mere sub pre-out in so many integrated amps, let alone bass management.

 

[highfigh]

I was wondering what RSL would say. I expected as much, doubtful anything in this gear would be an issue with the proposed use.

They replied later- the input impedance is 20K ohms.

 

[highfigh]

Yeah the initial phone person in customer service likely doesn't know much beyond a script. The impedance value of the sub's input is generally much higher than for a speaker (as was said, the 4 ohm rating is between the driver and the sub's amp). Too bad they can't be bothered with even a mere sub pre-out in so many integrated amps, let alone bass management.

The worst part is in who decides what will be offered in new models- it's likely a case of "Marketing strikes again!".

 

[Eppie]

@Miniperl a lot of back and forth for a simple question. As mentioned, the speaker level input on the sub is high impedance, so will not affect the output of your amp. Some subs have speaker in and speaker out for convenience, but the output is not a requirement. The connections are in parallel, so effectively the speaker input and output are connected together. Likewise, the A + B speaker terminals on the amp are in parallel, so using the B terminals for the sub us fine.

Length of wire will not cause any phase issues, just keep the positive and negative terminals correct on each end. What will potentially cause phase issues is the placement of the sub so use the phase switch or phase control on the sub to adjust for that.

 

[Miniperl]

@Miniperl a lot of back and forth for a simple question. As mentioned, the speaker level input on the sub is high impedance, so will not affect the output of your amp. Some subs have speaker in and speaker out for convenience, but the output is not a requirement. The connections are in parallel, so effectively the speaker input and output are connected together. Likewise, the A + B speaker terminals on the amp are in parallel, so using the B terminals for the sub us fine.

Length of wire will not cause any phase issues, just keep the positive and negative terminals correct on each end. What will potentially cause phase issues is the placement of the sub so use the phase switch or phase control on the sub to adjust for that.

Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to read the thread and reply.