Speaker advice needed

S

SteveHy

Audiophyte
Getting ready to put 10-12 k in a budget system (starting from ground zero!) and was looking at DT 9080x as the main speakers. However, a sales rep has me looking at the Maggie 1.7 instead. I’ve read reviews that say the 3.7i is a significantly better speaker. But bigger in an unpowered speaker means more power required. My question is that, since hearing that Maggie 3.7 take lots of expensive power, can lesser power get reasonably good sound quality from them? Or, should I stick with a smaller speaker? Any recommendations on these components? Can anyone provide opinion(s) on this?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Actually smaller speakers tend to need more power (see Hoffman's Iron Law). Then again some designs just have low sensitivity and perhaps low impedance so as to need particular attention paid to amplification. IIRC Magnepans have middling sensitivity and are 4 ohm nominal. Believe the Magnepans could be fussier about proper placement, too, as a further consideration. Is this a 2ch system for music only or also surround and for movies or music or both? Neither brand has made my acquaintance except perhaps in passing here and there, neither particularly grabbed me.....
 
MalVeauX

MalVeauX

Full Audioholic
Hi,

Well, it starts with the room and ends with the room. Your speakers are not going to transform magic from a poor acoustically treated room with poor placement. And what you hear, is mostly the room. So start with the room. What size room? What are the surface materials, dimensions, furniture and things in the room? What is the distance from your intended speaker location to the listening position(s)?

Very best,
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Maggies are an eccentric speaker. They beam quite narrowly and have a very small sweet spot. Furthermore, they are a dipole speaker, so they have a greater amount of late reflections than ordinary speakers. I also think that their argument of being a 'quicker' speaker because of the diaphragm construction to be bogus. What is more is that they are pretty light on bass output. I hope you hate deep bass, because with Magnapan speakers, you aren't getting any. And yes, you will also need an amplifier that is very comfortable with low impedance loads for Maggies.

As for Deftech DT speakers, that is another eccentric one with a "bipole" design that will also have a much higher ratio of late reflections compared to regular speakers. I would tend toward that one over the maggies since it will have a wider sweet spot and some actual bass. It won't need a beefy amp either. Personally I would go for the Deftech Demand series over the DT series. The Demands measure very well and is more of a conventional loudspeaker, and a very good one.

If you are looking for a speaker for a single listening position, I would take a hard look at the Polk Legend L800s. That will give you a great sound experience and leave you will left over money for a good amp and pre-amp. Some other good brands are RBH, Revel, Monitor, JBL HDI, Dali, SalkSound, Focal, among others. The Perlisten R5t speakes look promising. Paradigm's new Founder series look promising. JBL's HDI-3800 is a pretty killer speaker. Revel's F226Be is an excellent speaker.
 
S

SteveHy

Audiophyte
Actually smaller speakers tend to need more power (see Hoffman's Iron Law). Then again some designs just have low sensitivity and perhaps low impedance so as to need particular attention paid to amplification. IIRC Magnepans have middling sensitivity and are 4 ohm nominal. Believe the Magnepans could be fussier about proper placement, too, as a further consideration. Is this a 2ch system for music only or also surround and for movies or music or both? Neither brand has made my acquaintance except perhaps in passing here and there, neither particularly grabbed me.....
Actually smaller speakers tend to need more power (see Hoffman's Iron Law). Then again some designs just have low sensitivity and perhaps low impedance so as to need particular attention paid to amplification. IIRC Magnepans have middling sensitivity and are 4 ohm nominal. Believe the Magnepans could be fussier about proper placement, too, as a further consideration. Is this a 2ch system for music only or also surround and for movies or music or both? Neither brand has made my acquaintance except perhaps in passing here and there, neither particularly grabbed me.....
Really appreciate your reply! Room is 14x30 carpet floor not much on walls. What does grab you in the $6 k/ pair range?
 
S

SteveHy

Audiophyte
Maggies are an eccentric speaker. They beam quite narrowly and have a very small sweet spot. Furthermore, they are a dipole speaker, so they have a greater amount of late reflections than ordinary speakers. I also think that their argument of being a 'quicker' speaker because of the diaphragm construction to be bogus. What is more is that they are pretty light on bass output. I hope you hate deep bass, because with Magnapan speakers, you aren't getting any. And yes, you will also need an amplifier that is very comfortable with low impedance loads for Maggies.

As for Deftech DT speakers, that is another eccentric one with a "bipole" design that will also have a much higher ratio of late reflections compared to regular speakers. I would tend toward that one over the maggies since it will have a wider sweet spot and some actual bass. It won't need a beefy amp either. Personally I would go for the Deftech Demand series over the DT series. The Demands measure very well and is more of a conventional loudspeaker, and a very good one.

If you are looking for a speaker for a single listening position, I would take a hard look at the Polk Legend L800s. That will give you a great sound experience and leave you will left over money for a good amp and pre-amp. Some other good brands are RBH, Revel, Monitor, JBL HDI, Dali, SalkSound, Focal, among others. The Perlisten R5t speakes look promising. Paradigm's new Founder series look promising. JBL's HDI-3800 is a pretty killer speaker. Revel's F226Be is an excellent speaker.
Really appreciate you comments! I just read a review of 20 speakers that said the Polk L800 blows everything else away in term of sound stage realism. I’m onto something now! Just need to find quality mates for power, media sources, etc. thanks!
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Field Marshall
Is this stereo only or are you planning on doing surround sound? In all honesty you've got a lot of great options for speakers within that budget. After listening to and now owning Salk's I'm very partial to the Raal tweeters. They sound even better than they look, and I could talk for days about how gorgeous they are to look at.
 
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic General
first what type of usage is this for ?
Theater ? Music ??
I’d look at jtr or power sound, should crush def red technology. Huge soundstage don’t take big amps , anything should power them .

Ascend Sierra, and tons of online brands ... chane
I’d expect surround sound to be better for music also , those brands have nice subwoofers.
Maggie’s aren’t as good as either , but some people love them for music ...inefficient
Expect to spend a fortune on amps ..

Or get professional cinema horn speakers, even try pa audio speakers.
Try not to be manipulated by salesman they only want a commission usually , and not everything in store is good . I’d get you cheapest Maggie’s online try them out if you want . I’f you prefer rotating speakers , horn speakers are impressive for music also .

I wouldn’t go alll in for 3.7 as who knows if you even like them , maybe you like box speakers better . They need powerhouse subs as they don’t produce much bass ,
I’d research online a lot before purchasing..
 
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stalag2005

Full Audioholic
On Friday I will be going to my dealer for a listen to the new Paradigm founders series. I have a thread started about bookshelf speakers on point. If I were you, the combinations of the Paradigm Premier series with Founders series should be looked at for their price points.



Both speaker series I posted are worthy of a good look. I have mine attached to an Anthem MRX-740 and love the sound which is clear and faithful to the recordings as originally collected. If there are flaws in the recording, it is not the fault of the speakers of the caliber I am mentioning here. It is very easy with your budget to put together a great 7.1 surround sound system.

Given this, there is a lot of love here for SVS subwoofers of which I own an SB-3000. My Paradigm X-12 is better and is on my 7.1 system in my living room.

Given the above, without the subwoofer for $12500 I could suggest all founders edition speakers for a 7.0 system

2 100F for fronts
3 70CLR for the center channel (one speaker) and the front surrounds
2 40B for the rear surround sound speakers (you don't need a huge speaker for the rear surrounds.

If budget becomes a concern or you want to spend in different directions, you can modify the above or pick premier level speakers. I run the following in my 7.1 system in my living room

2 800F premier series
2 MiniMonitor v5 for my surrounds
2 25S Prestige for my rears
1 45C Prestige for my center
1 X12 Defiance subwoofer
And all the above Paradigm speakers are attached to the aforementioned MRX-740.

Given my system that I put together over time and then upgraded selected components, I IMHO have a great system. Note I don't have all of one line but have mixed different Paradigm lines and still get awesome sound. Paradigm is good that way.

The new Founders series replaces the Prestige line.
 
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stalag2005

Full Audioholic
To add to this, IF I were to buy all new I would consider the following based on what I have heard.

2 Premier 800F fronts $2000/pair
4 Founders 40B for the front and rear surrounds at $4400 for all 4
1 Founders 70LCR for the center channel at $1700
1 X12 Defiance subwoofer $1300
1 Anthem MRX-740 to drive this $2700

This entire system is $12,100 USD and IMHO would sound great for what you are looking to do.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Really appreciate you comments! I just read a review of 20 speakers that said the Polk L800 blows everything else away in term of sound stage realism. I’m onto something now! Just need to find quality mates for power, media sources, etc. thanks!
Big discussion about those in another thread. From what I gather they're amazing if set up properly. They are very particular about setup and placement and don't match well with certain amps tho. Far more than a typical speaker, so make sure you do some homework on them before you pull the trigger. I don't have much to add other than that. Shady gave you a great list of suggestions. All great companies.
 
DigitalDawn

DigitalDawn

Full Audioholic
Take a look at Triad. www.triadspeakers.com

I highly recommend Triad Speakers. Triad is a Portland-based company that hand builds speakers in just about every configuration you can imagine. They will even color match the speakers and grills to match the paint on your walls. In addition to InRoom speakers, Triad has In-Wall and angled InCeiling speakers and subwoofers that work amazingly well for spaces in which you have no floor space, or when you wish to hide the speakers from view. The company has speakers in many different price ranges, starting at $300 per speaker.

While not a household name, Triad is a favorite of custom installers and has won numerous industry awards. The company is also a prototype partner for Dolby, helping to design speaker systems for immersive audio. Most recently, Triad Gold Monitor speakers won Best of Show, at this past CEDIA Expo in Denver.
 
K

keepr88

Junior Audioholic
On Friday I will be going to my dealer for a listen to the new Paradigm founders series. I have a thread started about bookshelf speakers on point. If I were you, the combinations of the Paradigm Premier series with Founders series should be looked at for their price points.



Both speaker series I posted are worthy of a good look. I have mine attached to an Anthem MRX-740 and love the sound which is clear and faithful to the recordings as originally collected. If there are flaws in the recording, it is not the fault of the speakers of the caliber I am mentioning here. It is very easy with your budget to put together a great 7.1 surround sound system.

Given this, there is a lot of love here for SVS subwoofers of which I own an SB-3000. My Paradigm X-12 is better and is on my 7.1 system in my living room.

Given the above, without the subwoofer for $12500 I could suggest all founders edition speakers for a 7.0 system

2 100F for fronts
3 70CLR for the center channel (one speaker) and the front surrounds
2 40B for the rear surround sound speakers (you don't need a huge speaker for the rear surrounds.

If budget becomes a concern or you want to spend in different directions, you can modify the above or pick premier level speakers. I run the following in my 7.1 system in my living room

2 800F premier series
2 MiniMonitor v5 for my surrounds
2 25S Prestige for my rears
1 45C Prestige for my center
1 X12 Defiance subwoofer
And all the above Paradigm speakers are attached to the aforementioned MRX-740.

Given my system that I put together over time and then upgraded selected components, I IMHO have a great system. Note I don't have all of one line but have mixed different Paradigm lines and still get awesome sound. Paradigm is good that way.

The new Founders series replaces the Prestige line.
Did you get a chance to listen to the founder series speakers? If so which ones and what are your thoughts??
 
S

stalag2005

Full Audioholic
On Friday I will be going to my dealer for a listen to the new Paradigm founders series. I have a thread started about bookshelf speakers on point. If I were you, the combinations of the Paradigm Premier series with Founders series should be looked at for their price points.
The reason I shouted is under lined and is colored in red. RTFM IS IMPORTANT!!!!!
 
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stalag2005

Full Audioholic
Nope never heard of RTFT (or RTT or RTDT or other variations :) ), but RTFM is just confusing....
The operant idea is the read and comprehend. I get perturbed when that fails in grey matter!
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
If you are looking for a speaker for a single listening position...
C’mon, Shady, why on gods earth would anyone in their right mind want a speaker that only sounds good in a SINGLE position, requires much work to sound great and cost plenty of money when there are so many other choices? :D

I know @PENG and @Irvrobinson and others have already raised this very valid question.
 

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