Speaker advice for a newbie, unorthodox approach?

[mfrankwilson]

Just getting started to design a new installation in family room with TV. Not sure if I’m looking for primarily two channel listening or grow to include also “home theater” including the TV.
I’m hoping to not reconfigure the room seating arrangement drastically (WAF), so that immediately presents compromises, as seating is not well aligned for where I would foresee mounting the two main speakers.
Also, hoping to not intrude into the room much, I’m exploring my options for surface mounting speakers on front wall.
What obvious trade-off’s or errors am I making if I’m looking at using what are primarily marketed as bi-pole, surface-mount surround speakers, to use as my main front speakers? My initial studying suggests the bipole configuration should partially make up for seating that is “off-center” in the room, because of their wide radiation pattern. Also, since they are designed for surface mounting, that I will not drastically compromise their performance if I mount on the front wall.
What obvious mistakes does this approach make?
I’ve been studying Floyd Toole’s third edition, and this approach occurred to me.
Thanks in advance from a newbie.

 

[shadyJ]

Just getting started to design a new installation in family room with TV. Not sure if I’m looking for primarily two channel listening or grow to include also “home theater” including the TV.
I’m hoping to not reconfigure the room seating arrangement drastically (WAF), so that immediately presents compromises, as seating is not well aligned for where I would foresee mounting the two main speakers.
Also, hoping to not intrude into the room much, I’m exploring my options for surface mounting speakers on front wall.
What obvious trade-off’s or errors am I making if I’m looking at using what are primarily marketed as bi-pole, surface-mount surround speakers, to use as my main front speakers? My initial studying suggests the bipole configuration should partially make up for seating that is “off-center” in the room, because of their wide radiation pattern. Also, since they are designed for surface mounting, that I will not drastically compromise their performance if I mount on the front wall.
What obvious mistakes does this approach make?
I’ve been studying Floyd Toole’s third edition, and this approach occurred to me.
Thanks in advance from a newbie.

Do you have a diagram of the arrangement? How far off center will you be seated? It's not normally encouraged to use bipole or dipole surround speakers as front left rights. Won't a decent on-wall speaker suffuce? Here is an example. Here is a fancier one. Here is a nice one. A dipole or bipole speaker used as a front is bound to have a lot of oddities in the response at nearly any angle.

 

[Pogre]

Do you have a diagram of the arrangement? How far off center will you be seated? It's not normally encouraged to use bipole or dipole surround speakers as front left rights. Won't a decent on-wall speaker suffuce? Here is an example. Here is a fancier one. Here is a nice one. A dipole or bipole speaker used as a front is bound to have a lot of oddities in the response at nearly any angle.

Boy, both the Pixel and the SV-661W look very nice! I don't see a price on the Pixels but I know Legacy products aren't in everyone's range, lol.

 

[mfrankwilson]

diagram of the room.

 

[Verdinut]

IMO, you just have an egoistic spouse. I wouldn't let her run me! So many women boss their spouse. In a couple, there shouldn't be a boss!
I'm divorced and so happy to be.

 

[shadyJ]

diagram of the room.View attachment 33662

That is a tough spot, acoustically speaking. I would just get some on-walls, but don't expect any miracles. Hopefully you have space for a subwoofer, because on-walls don't tend to have much in the way of bass.

 

[mfrankwilson]

Boy, both the Pixel and the SV-661W look very nice! I don't see a price on the Pixels but I know Legacy products aren't in everyone's range, lol.

Do you have a diagram of the arrangement? How far off center will you be seated? It's not normally encouraged to use bipole or dipole surround speakers as front left rights. Won't a decent on-wall speaker suffuce? Here is an example. Here is a fancier one. Here is a nice one. A dipole or bipole speaker used as a front is bound to have a lot of oddities in the response at nearly any angle.

I’ll be pretty far off center. I did post a diagram. BTW, thanks for your thoughtful response. I’ll study those speaker suggestions. A decent on-wall speaker may very well suffice.

 

[mfrankwilson]

That is a tough spot, acoustically speaking. I would just get some on-walls, but don't expect any miracles. Hopefully you have space for a subwoofer, because on-walls don't tend to have much in the way of bass.

I’m expecting I will need a sub, I’ve currently got a sub with my existing soundbar, probably not an optimal location inside the entertainment center. Thanks for your response. I realized it’s a pretty suboptimal arrangement, that’s part of why I was considering such a non traditional solution. I’m not expecting a miracle, but hoping for pretty good sound. My standards are not necessarily that high.

 

[mfrankwilson]

IMO, you just have an egoistic spouse. I wouldn't let her run me! So many women boss their spouse. In a couple, there shouldn't be a boss!
I'm divorced and so happy to be.

Appreciate your opinion. I’m approaching this as a technical problem with difficult constraints.

 

[Verdinut]

Appreciate your opinion. I’m approaching this as a technical problem with difficult constraints.

I understand your situation.
Eighty years ago, that kind of situation did not arise. At the house, the man was the bread winner and the woman had nothing to say. Now, both usually work and, with most couples, the boss is the woman. There should be discussions and compromises to reach a win-win agreement.

 

[mfrankwilson]

I understand your situation.
Eighty years ago, that kind of situation did not arise. At the house, the man was the bread winner and the woman had nothing to say. Now, both usually work and, with most couples, the boss is the woman. There should be discussions and compromises to reach a win-win agreement.

And 80 years ago we did not have the range of technical solutions we have now. "HiFi" was pretty different 80 years ago.

 

[Verdinut]

And 80 years ago we did not have the range of technical solutions we have now. "HiFi" was pretty different 80 years ago.

Eighty years ago, HiFi was just slowly starting commercially. At home, we had a big 1934 Deforest-Crosley floor radio console. It contained two 10" speakers using electromagnets powered by a 20 watt amplifier. Of course, the frequency response was far from being linear and it did not go much beyond 5 kHz if it did. No hiss and no HF distortion!

 

[lovinthehd]

Technical solutions only do so much for your seating position being poor, and can't see positioning speakers well for that particularly, altho speakers on either side of most tvs would still be an improvement on tv speakers. At least not without moving some furniture. Is the bar mobile? Seats? TV?

 

[Pogre]

I wouldn't want to put much money into a setup like that. To purchase nice gear and neuter it with bad placement just seems counter intuitive to me.

 

[mfrankwilson]

Technical solutions only do so much for your seating position being poor, and can't see positioning speakers well for that particularly, altho speakers on either side of most tvs would still be an improvement on tv speakers. At least not without moving some furniture. Is the bar mobile? Seats? TV?

Current TV sound is passable, using a 3.1 soundbar (Boston Acoustics TVee model 30.), stereo sound through the soundbar not so much. Bar is not movable, that is a built-in counter top, leading into an adjoining room 16' x 14'. seats and TV could be moved, but not without muscles. Seats are located for socializing and TV viewing. Cable and power are along the wall where the TV is now.

 

[CoryW]

Just getting started to design a new installation in family room with TV. Not sure if I’m looking for primarily two channel listening or grow to include also “home theater” including the TV.
I’m hoping to not reconfigure the room seating arrangement drastically (WAF), so that immediately presents compromises, as seating is not well aligned for where I would foresee mounting the two main speakers.
Also, hoping to not intrude into the room much, I’m exploring my options for surface mounting speakers on front wall.
What obvious trade-off’s or errors am I making if I’m looking at using what are primarily marketed as bi-pole, surface-mount surround speakers, to use as my main front speakers? My initial studying suggests the bipole configuration should partially make up for seating that is “off-center” in the room, because of their wide radiation pattern. Also, since they are designed for surface mounting, that I will not drastically compromise their performance if I mount on the front wall.
What obvious mistakes does this approach make?
I’ve been studying Floyd Toole’s third edition, and this approach occurred to me.
Thanks in advance from a newbie.

From what my Father used to say, “ Son, there is no substitute for cubic inch”. That works very well for audio. What about hanging electrostats right on the wall. I’ve seen some that look like wall decoration. You would need a good amp to make them open up. Rbh makes a really great in wall system that I used for years. It’s very forgiving and easy to install. For all you studs out there that rule your castle, I treasure my wife and give her the dignity she deserves as an equal partner. In turn, she’s be very calm about my obsession. If you like being alone, you ain’t doing it right. Nope.

SI-760 BAFFLE ASSEMBLY

Signature 2-way Baffle Assembly for SI-760 in-wall speaker • black satin finish • dual 6.5" black-anodized aluminum woofers; soft dome tweeter • In-wall cabinet or Retrofit Bracket required / sold separately • Grille optional / sold separately (PRICE PER SINGLE)

rbhsound.com

 

[mfrankwilson]

From what my Father used to say, “ Son, there is no substitute for cubic inch”. That works very well for audio. What about hanging electrostats right on the wall. I’ve seen some that look like wall decoration. You would need a good amp to make them open up. Rbh makes a really great in wall system that I used for years. It’s very forgiving and easy to install. For all you studs out there that rule your castle, I treasure my wife and give her the dignity she deserves as an equal partner. In turn, she’s be very calm about my obsession. If you like being alone, you ain’t doing it right. Nope.

SI-760 BAFFLE ASSEMBLY

Signature 2-way Baffle Assembly for SI-760 in-wall speaker • black satin finish • dual 6.5" black-anodized aluminum woofers; soft dome tweeter • In-wall cabinet or Retrofit Bracket required / sold separately • Grille optional / sold separately (PRICE PER SINGLE)

rbhsound.com

Interesting suggestion. Thanks, I'll take a look.

And hanging Electrostat's on the wall is also interesting. Getting enough power should not be difficult, just need to pay attention.

I'm not sure I quite followed your comment about not doing it right, but assume it is positive advice.

 

[lovinthehd]

Current TV sound is passable, using a 3.1 soundbar (Boston Acoustics TVee model 30.), stereo sound through the soundbar not so much. Bar is not movable, that is a built-in counter top, leading into an adjoining room 16' x 14'. seats and TV could be moved, but not without muscles. Seats are located for socializing and TV viewing. Cable and power are along the wall where the TV is now.

I'd just stick with what you've got unless you can rearrange....or get a pair of headphones or another room or....

 

[Pogre]

From what my Father used to say, “ Son, there is no substitute for cubic inch”.

There's no replacement for displacement!

 

[MrBoat]

Stow the speakers when not in use. Pull them out to a more optimum arrangement when you want the best performance. I do this often since I rotate between several different approaches to music listening frequently enough. Sometimes I set up a near field arrangement pretty much point blank. It tends to work in any room. At least with the bass reflex designs I tend to gravitate towards. I can honestly say that in over 40 years at this, I have yet to be held back by a room, or someone else's (or my own, for that matter) idea of some agreeable aesthetic.

The idea of a music rig having to be permanently, and rigidly installed, was brought on by some OCD'd engineers. Having to share space with others not into the same things, just takes a bit of creativity outside of what's trendy, these days.