Speaker Advice - B&W 684's?

[DoK]

I've come across a pretty good deal on a set of B&W 684's, but I'm a little concerned the speakers won't be able to produce enough sound to fill my room.

They will be going into my living room, which is 18' x 21' x 8'. I don't have any carpet (other than an area rug), and the floors are laminate wood.

I currently have JBL studio series S310 main speakers, which play plenty loud, but I find that they are lacking for anything that isn't heavy metal.

The speakers would be used for metal, blues, jazz, classical music, rock, and for watching movies and TV. These speakers would be paired with a Velodyne 10" sub and a Harman Kardon HK3480 (to be upgraded this month to a Yamaha RX-A2010).

Any help is appreciated.

 

[agarwalro]

Can you bring them home to try them out and return them if not satisfied?

 

[GranteedEV]

You can really do better, plain and simple.

 

[Nuance AH]

What is your budget, Dok, and will these be part of a 5.1 package? If you can bump the budget to $1600 these will literally slaughter those B&W's. If played side-by-side the 684's will break into 1000 pieces, leaving a large mess on the floor.

philharmonicaudio.com

The Philharmonic 1

 

[nxcuongvn]

Usually B&W series are hungry for power and 684 is not an exception.Another choice is Wharfedale Diamond 10.7 and i'm sure that the sound is better than B&W684.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Usually B&W series are hungry for power...

As GranteedEV and Nuance eluded to (and I agree), the B&W series are not hungry for more power. They are just hungry for a better design team to make them more accurate with better on-axis FR and smoother off-axis FR.

"Hungry for more power" translates to "not sounding great to me" or "buy different speakers" in my book.

 

[kini]

PSB Image T6 would be a much better choice IMO.

 

[agarwalro]

You can really do better, plain and simple.

+1. The only reason I did not say this is, we don't know at what price the OP is getting the B&W.

If you can bump the budget to $1600 these will literally slaughter those B&W's. If played side-by-side the 684's will break into 1000 pieces, leaving a large mess on the floor.

No question. But, at 21" deep and need an additional 24-48" behind them for proper placement, I don't think these are for someone looking to put them in a living room HT. No comment on WAF .

I'd recommend the Salk SongTower QWT which will cause the 684's to break into 950 pieces and be much easier to integrate into the room and much higher WAF too.

 

[DoK]

Thanks for the help, guys.

The deal is actually really good. Pair of B&W 684's, Velodyne DEQ-10R, and Integra 2-channel receiver for $700.

No, I don't get to return the speakers if I don't like them, but I'm reasonably certain I could sell the B&W's and Integra receiver on eBay, keep the Velodyne DEQ-10R, and still turn a profit.

I'll continue saving up for a set of Paradigms. I don't have any experience with B&W, and you have provided me some valuable insight.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks for the help, guys.

The deal is actually really good. Pair of B&W 684's, Velodyne DEQ-10R, and Integra 2-channel receiver for $700.

No, I don't get to return the speakers if I don't like them, but I'm reasonably certain I could sell the B&W's and Integra receiver on eBay, keep the Velodyne DEQ-10R, and still turn a profit.

I'll continue saving up for a set of Paradigms. I don't have any experience with B&W, and you have provided me some valuable insight.

IMO, If you are set on getting the Paradigm, you might as well just stick with the B&W. Well, as long as they sound great to you, you are good to go.

 

[Nuance AH]

The recommended Salks and Philharmonic speakers are far better than the Paradigms too. You owe it to yourself to check these speakers out. There is nothing better for the money IMO.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The recommended Salks and Philharmonic speakers are far better than the Paradigms too. You owe it to yourself to check these speakers out. There is nothing better for the money IMO.

Do you think it's the crossover?

I mean most Paradigm have excellent measurements. But InTheIndustry, you, GranteedEV, another audiophile colleague of mine, and I just don't seem to enjoy their sound as much as the measurements would indicate.

 

[Nuance AH]

Do you think it's the crossover?

I mean most Paradigm have excellent measurements. But InTheIndustry, you, GranteedEV, another audiophile colleague of mine, and I just don't seem to enjoy their sound as much as the measurements would indicate.

Probably a combination of drivers, crossover and cabinet design. But yeah - I think the quality of the crossover has a lot to do with it. Dennis is one of the best in the business IMO (if not THE best).

 

[fuzz092888]

I'd also like to point out that 24-48" of space behind isn't an absolute requirement for the Philharmonics. That's one of the beauties of the speakers you can adjust to taste with fill and distances from the wall. There is a ton of flexibility and while the aesthetics may not be for everyone, the performance is really as good or in most cases better than the competition for the price. HT or music, these would fit the bill and then some.

That being said the suggestions above are all excellent. If you're set on the paradigms and you like how the b&ws sound then there's no point in raising your budget and buying blindly. However, I will say, IMHO the risk on the Phils or the salks would be worth it.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'd also like to point out that 24-48" of space behind isn't an absolute requirement for the Philharmonics.

I agree. I think they would sound great even with 3" of space.

These Philharmonic speakers are quite foolproof in terms of SQ - they just don't know how to sound bad.

 

[GranteedEV]

most Paradigm have excellent measurements. But........don't seem to enjoy their sound as much as the measurements would indicate.

I think for starters it's the crossover. I think the drivers don't "behave as one" even if they measure flat on the forward axis. Their websites state 3rd order crossovers, which furthers my suspicions. What you get is that "right up next to you" presentation instead of the "behind and beside the speakers" presentation. Some people love it.. but to me it's just not.. cool enough <_<;;;

I also think the non signature stuff doesn't seem to measure all that great at all. The monitor and studio lines seem to measure pretty boom n tizz, which sounds like paradigm to me.

I also suspect their boxes aren't tuned very well.

 

[GranteedEV]

Paradigm Studio 10 v5 shows a lot of 2-8khz energy as well as a bit of a peak from 70-200hz.

Studio 60 v5 shows a big dip in the upper mids as well as some 3-6khz question marks. 90-300hz also look a bit elevated.

 

[DoK]

GranteedEV, for my own edification, can you explain to me what those graphs indicate and how they should be used? I would assume that, ideally, the SPL should remain fairly constant as frequency increases.

 

[GranteedEV]

GranteedEV, for my own edification, can you explain to me what those graphs indicate and how they should be used?

Just a frequency response graph. Tells you if the speaker is voiced to accurately reproduce sound, or voiced to sell speakers to the unassuming.

How to use them? Well don't waste your time with anything that reminds you of ski trips to the Rockie Mountains or horse saddles, etc. If both resolution and scale are not inadequate and it's flat as your budget can handle, then go and audition it.

I would assume that, ideally, the SPL should remain fairly constant as frequency increases.

Well there's two correct trains of thought:

1) SPL should remain constant given a specific voltage input, within 4db (+/- 2db) from 100hz to 10khz. Also try to understand the general trends.

2) Mostly the same, but with leeway for a slight reduction in SPL as frequency rises above 1khz, simply because some recordings are bright.

 

[honeymonster]

As the B&W 684 is still a current model, could you not have a listen to them at a local dealer with some favourite CD's before you make the purchase?