Soundproofing my basement

S

Sanyobusiness

Enthusiast
#1
So I'm setting up my basement as my record player poker lounge. It's not a finished basement, so the hvac vents run along the ceiling, exposed, and transfer all the sound of me jamming out down there to every room in the house. Sound leaking into the first floor isn't such a big deal, but if SWMBO is on second floor sleeping, the vents carry that sound up to her room like a metal drum, and if there is one thing I know it is that I don't want angry wife yelling down the stairs for us to quiet down. Is there a product that I could wrap the exposed vents with that would minimize this issue? Or is that a lot of work without much effect? Or is finishing the ceiling and covering joists, vents and all the way to go?

I've done searches for sound proofing AC vents, but most everything I can find is for recording studios to minimize sound of the ventilation system itself coming in to the recording studio. I'm just trying to prevent sound from my stereo and poker buddies from getting into the vents.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
1,163 9 15
#2
If you can do a drop ceiling with sound proof tiles, that's about as good as you can do. Sound will travel thru vents, but that shouldnt be the bigger concern. The exposed ceiling would probably horrible.
 
S

SRL Acoustics

Enthusiast
Ratings
3 1 3
#3
The only thing that would mitigate your problem is to
1. Abandon the central AC for the basement bight the bullet and get stand alone AC for the basement.
2. Cover all metal surfaces of duct in basement ceiling with mass loaded vinyl such as Dynamat.
3. Put in suspended ceiling with medium density rock wool insulation and high mass tiles.

This is a good start. I can help you more with the room acoustics if you wish.
 
S

Sanyobusiness

Enthusiast
#4
The only thing that would mitigate your problem is to
1. Abandon the central AC for the basement bight the bullet and get stand alone AC for the basement.
2. Cover all metal surfaces of duct in basement ceiling with mass loaded vinyl such as Dynamat.
3. Put in suspended ceiling with medium density rock wool insulation and high mass tiles.

This is a good start. I can help you more with the room acoustics if you wish.
Not exactly sure what you mean by 1. The HVAC system doesn't actually vent air into the basement itself (which doesn't really need it) — that's just where the forced air fan & heating unit are located, along with all the vents along the ceiling of the basement that go up into the upper rooms. It's not something I could move without an insane amount of money and construction.

The Dynamat is basically what I was thinking of, except I didn't know a name to look for, or how effective it would be... Something to stop the sound from vibrating the vents, and then travelling up them and coming out the vent registers in the bedrooms on the 2nd floor. Seems kind of thin though. The stuff I just looked up is only 0.067" thick... or are there different thicknesses?

Personally I'd like to avoid doing a drop ceiling, partly because the vents are below the floor joists so they wouldn't be covered by the drop ceiling anyway, and partly because if I make the basement too comfy, taxman will decide it's "living space" and jack up my property taxes. ;) Might be worth it though. The walls are still bare cinder block, so that's got to be addressed too. I was planning to cover them with fancy stucco, but now that I'm thinking more about soundproofing, I've begrudgingly had to abandon that plan.

So what should I do with the walls, keeping in mind that I'm not a millionaire?
 
Matthew J Poes

Matthew J Poes

Full Audioholic
Ratings
237
#5
So I'm setting up my basement as my record player poker lounge. It's not a finished basement, so the hvac vents run along the ceiling, exposed, and transfer all the sound of me jamming out down there to every room in the house. Sound leaking into the first floor isn't such a big deal, but if SWMBO is on second floor sleeping, the vents carry that sound up to her room like a metal drum, and if there is one thing I know it is that I don't want angry wife yelling down the stairs for us to quiet down. Is there a product that I could wrap the exposed vents with that would minimize this issue? Or is that a lot of work without much effect? Or is finishing the ceiling and covering joists, vents and all the way to go?

I've done searches for soundproofing AC vents, but most everything I can find is for recording studios to minimize sound of the ventilation system itself coming in to the recording studio. I'm just trying to prevent sound from my stereo and poker buddies from getting into the vents.
Ah I am your man here! Hah. Beyond the fact that I provide engineered solutions to clients for soundproofing, I also did this myself for my own home theater.

Soundproofing an AC vent is very possible and VERY expensive. There may be half measures that help, but a total solution is likely not what you want. It costs more than stand-alone AC.

Now is your basement already soundproofed? What is the level of sound isolation between your jamming out room and the rest of the home? While HVAC can be a direct conduit that pipes the sound around, spending heroic measures on the HVAC and not having addressed anything else may be somewhat fruitless.

In any case, let's start with the theory of what we are trying to do. You don't really want to soundproof. While a commonly used term, the reality is we can't soundproof anything. Instead, the goal is transmission loss. You want to reduce the volume of the sound that is transmitted. And ducts transmit sound like you wouldn't believe (or would you, many science museums have such communication devices to show how well a pipe can pipe sound over great distances).

Some will tell you that flex duct is a solution in home theaters, but that misses the point of the problem, its not a great solution. So instead we should think about the problem, the domains that solutions fall into, and from there you can develop a solution.

There are two types of noise escape that happens with ducts, Breakout noise and transmitted noise. Breakout noise is the noise that escapes the walls of the duct itself. It is like sound that escapes through the walls. Noise that transmits through the duct is the noise that follows the duct and comes out of openings, your floor registers. Both are a problem you have.

How do you stop breakout noise? Use a rigid, massive, and solid material. Steel ducts are villified but actually good for this. The problem is that steel ducts have a resonance that causes a narrow frequency band where high noise transmission is possible. It also increases noise transfer through the duct. So to fix that you damp the duct material itself and line it with duct liner. A fiberglass material that lines the inside to absorb sound as it bounces around. To do this and not impede the flow of air, you need to increase the duct size. In my case, all of my ducts are 2-4 inches larger than needed where I added duct liner.

To stop sound from escaping into rooms, you may also want to ensure that anywhere the sound could escape is itself sound isolated. In my case, that means ensuring that the places where ducts run into floors or ceilings has some sound isolation such as MLV, Fiberglass insulation, etc. around the outside of the duct.

Duct liner is part of how you stop sound from transmitting through the duct, but it only works so well. You need to do a few other things. First, you need to decouple the duct to stop the duct itself from conducting the sound. Think about why a pair of cups and a string held taught can transmit sound and you get the problem. Damping compound helps, but is not a complete solution. Fiberglass helps, but is not a complete solution. Instead, you want to create a break in the hard ducting using something isolating. They make flexible couplers for this purpose. Flex duct with fiberglass lining could be a solution here, it allows significant breakout, so you have to be careful where you use it, but its an option. It also can impede airflow.

Ok so what are the better ways to address this problem. You need to make it so sound doesn't have a direct path between the duct openings at each register. First, I like to use expansion chambers with indirect paths. Imagine a straight duct that is broken apart with a large box many times the volume of the primary duct path. Then create an indirect path for sound to enter and exit the expansion chamber and have the entire box lined with sound insulation. I often have steel barriers put in place to block direct sound and add absorbing triangles to help absorb and reflect sound toward the walls. Expansion chambers dramatically lower the velocity of air and help improve absorption.

Mufflers: They work, but not the cheap ones that look to just be an enlarged section of duct lined with foam or fiberglass. It isn't that those don't work at all, but you need 10 feet or more to make that work at all, and it doesn't work well. Better mufflers work like my mentioned expansion boxes, they force sound through a labrynth that absorbs sound. These are REALLY expensive to have made, and they must be custom made for your needs. They are also HUGE.

Ok so what might be an inexpensive solution that you could do? Remember that I said that creating expansion chambers and indirect paths with a labrynth was a good idea? You can do this in your room too. Build a box that does this over the register. You need to be careful, maintain appropriate aspect ratio and total area, don't make any points where the air can get trapped too much or create a lot of turbulance, but this can be done. I have designed a few of these and they were built out of ductboard. I plan to make a pair of these for my home theater when I have some time.

you need to think big, however. For an 8x14 duct opening, you need the area of the path to be at least the same, and aspect ratio shouldn't change too much from that. Ideally, the area should be larger, a lot larger. The total path length needs to be 10-20 feet.

This is what I suggest doing. However, I would do it and try to address some of the other problems I mentioned. You still likely need to damp and isolate your listening room ducts from the trunk with a flex coupler and damping compound.
 
S

Sanyobusiness

Enthusiast
#6
Ah I am your man here! Hah. Beyond the fact that I provide engineered solutions to clients for soundproofing, I also did this myself for my own home theater.

Soundproofing an AC vent is very possible and VERY expensive. There may be half measures that help, but a total solution is likely not what you want. It costs more than stand-alone AC.

Now is your basement already soundproofed? What is the level of sound isolation between your jamming out room and the rest of the home? While HVAC can be a direct conduit that pipes the sound around, spending heroic measures on the HVAC and not having addressed anything else may be somewhat fruitless.

In any case, let's start with the theory of what we are trying to do. You don't really want to soundproof. While a commonly used term, the reality is we can't soundproof anything. Instead, the goal is transmission loss. You want to reduce the volume of the sound that is transmitted. And ducts transmit sound like you wouldn't believe (or would you, many science museums have such communication devices to show how well a pipe can pipe sound over great distances).

Some will tell you that flex duct is a solution in home theaters, but that misses the point of the problem, its not a great solution. So instead we should think about the problem, the domains that solutions fall into, and from there you can develop a solution.

There are two types of noise escape that happens with ducts, Breakout noise and transmitted noise. Breakout noise is the noise that escapes the walls of the duct itself. It is like sound that escapes through the walls. Noise that transmits through the duct is the noise that follows the duct and comes out of openings, your floor registers. Both are a problem you have.

How do you stop breakout noise? Use a rigid, massive, and solid material. Steel ducts are villified but actually good for this. The problem is that steel ducts have a resonance that causes a narrow frequency band where high noise transmission is possible. It also increases noise transfer through the duct. So to fix that you damp the duct material itself and line it with duct liner. A fiberglass material that lines the inside to absorb sound as it bounces around. To do this and not impede the flow of air, you need to increase the duct size. In my case, all of my ducts are 2-4 inches larger than needed where I added duct liner.

To stop sound from escaping into rooms, you may also want to ensure that anywhere the sound could escape is itself sound isolated. In my case, that means ensuring that the places where ducts run into floors or ceilings has some sound isolation such as MLV, Fiberglass insulation, etc. around the outside of the duct.

Duct liner is part of how you stop sound from transmitting through the duct, but it only works so well. You need to do a few other things. First, you need to decouple the duct to stop the duct itself from conducting the sound. Think about why a pair of cups and a string held taught can transmit sound and you get the problem. Damping compound helps, but is not a complete solution. Fiberglass helps, but is not a complete solution. Instead, you want to create a break in the hard ducting using something isolating. They make flexible couplers for this purpose. Flex duct with fiberglass lining could be a solution here, it allows significant breakout, so you have to be careful where you use it, but its an option. It also can impede airflow.

Ok so what are the better ways to address this problem. You need to make it so sound doesn't have a direct path between the duct openings at each register. First, I like to use expansion chambers with indirect paths. Imagine a straight duct that is broken apart with a large box many times the volume of the primary duct path. Then create an indirect path for sound to enter and exit the expansion chamber and have the entire box lined with sound insulation. I often have steel barriers put in place to block direct sound and add absorbing triangles to help absorb and reflect sound toward the walls. Expansion chambers dramatically lower the velocity of air and help improve absorption.

Mufflers: They work, but not the cheap ones that look to just be an enlarged section of duct lined with foam or fiberglass. It isn't that those don't work at all, but you need 10 feet or more to make that work at all, and it doesn't work well. Better mufflers work like my mentioned expansion boxes, they force sound through a labrynth that absorbs sound. These are REALLY expensive to have made, and they must be custom made for your needs. They are also HUGE.

Ok so what might be an inexpensive solution that you could do? Remember that I said that creating expansion chambers and indirect paths with a labrynth was a good idea? You can do this in your room too. Build a box that does this over the register. You need to be careful, maintain appropriate aspect ratio and total area, don't make any points where the air can get trapped too much or create a lot of turbulance, but this can be done. I have designed a few of these and they were built out of ductboard. I plan to make a pair of these for my home theater when I have some time.

you need to think big, however. For an 8x14 duct opening, you need the area of the path to be at least the same, and aspect ratio shouldn't change too much from that. Ideally, the area should be larger, a lot larger. The total path length needs to be 10-20 feet.

This is what I suggest doing. However, I would do it and try to address some of the other problems I mentioned. You still likely need to damp and isolate your listening room ducts from the trunk with a flex coupler and damping compound.
Wow! You really are my man here!

A lot of what you mentioned just isn’t in the cards, but you did bring up some things that I hadn’t even thought of that would undoubtedly help—isolating the vents on the ceiling of the basement from the vents that go up the walls with flex couplers, and damping the connection between the vents and the metal hangers they are suspended from.

Sound from the forced air system itself getting into the bedrooms isn’t much of a concern for me...in fact, it would probably help mask the sounds going on in the basement. Mostly, I just want to prevent, as much as reasonably possible, sound from the stereo and voices from vibrating the vents and going up into the 2nd floor of the house and out the registers. While it would be great if our bedroom were as quiet as a recording studio, that’s /way/ more than my goal.

As for the current state of the basement? Poured cement floor, cinderblock walls, exposed floor joists on the ceiling...basically everything that would add to the problem rather than take away from it. I was hoping there was a solution that could get reasonably good results by wrapping the vents in some type of sound blocking/vibration absorbing material that wouldnt require too much alteration of the vents. Would this mostly be a waste of time, in your opinion?
 
Matthew J Poes

Matthew J Poes

Full Audioholic
Ratings
237
#7
It probably won't do a lot. I would say there aren't cheap solutions to this one. Sound is escaping the basement everywhere.

I would suggest maybe a cheap muffler if you can. It doesn't work great but it's cheap and will help a little.

To really block much sound, you need to finish the basement.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
9,572 67 8
#8
the vents carry that sound up to her room like a metal drum,
The vents or the ducts? If it's the ducts you can have core board w/ C-H studs and thermafiber plus 2 layers of 5/8" to make a shaft wall around the ducts.

Is there a product that I could wrap the exposed vents with that would minimize this issue?
The vents can have a duct extension put on them that makes the air change directions twice. Tin knockers call them an air exchange or something like that and they have duct liner in them.
 
Matthew J Poes

Matthew J Poes

Full Audioholic
Ratings
237
#9
The vents or the ducts? If it's the ducts you can have core board w/ C-H studs and thermafiber plus 2 layers of 5/8" to make a shaft wall around the ducts.



The vents can have a duct extension put on them that makes the air change directions twice. Tin knockers call them an air exchange or something like that and they have duct liner in them.
This wouldn’t stop sound from going through the duct. The duct wall itself has similar sound stopping power to that of a single layer of drywall. It’s between about 15 STC to 30 STC for the thickest and heaviest stuff. The biggest problem facing sound transmission through ducts is typically the sound traveling down the length of the vent.

Are you sure about your term for this end box? I’ve never heard of a standard box that does this. They do make duct lined end-boxes, but they only absorb a little sound. More commonly found with linear vents but available for domestic size too.

The term air exchanger normally refers to a large fresh air exchange device that helps add fresh air without a loss of heat or cooling. It brings the fresh air up to temp before adding it to the supply side. It wouldn’t help with sound.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
9,572 67 8
#10
This wouldn’t stop sound from going through the duct. The duct wall itself has similar sound stopping power to that of a single layer of drywall. It’s between about 15 STC to 30 STC for the thickest and heaviest stuff. The biggest problem facing sound transmission through ducts is typically the sound traveling down the length of the vent.

Are you sure about your term for this end box? I’ve never heard of a standard box that does this. They do make duct lined end-boxes, but they only absorb a little sound. More commonly found with linear vents but available for domestic size too.

The term air exchanger normally refers to a large fresh air exchange device that helps add fresh air without a loss of heat or cooling. It brings the fresh air up to temp before adding it to the supply side. It wouldn’t help with sound.
The air exchange duct is shaped like a Z w/ 90 degree angles and lined so it kills sound by forcing the air/sound to change direction. I see them used on partitions between offices and on conference rooms where they have plenum ceilings. A tin knocker would know what it's called and that might be a regional name. I'm not a tin knocker.

Stopping sound from getting to the duct means there's less sound going through it and down its length. That's what the shaft wall is for and I've done plenty of that. You need a metal framer/drywaller familiar with commercial work for that. Those walls have STC ratings to recommend them.

But who knows? Maybe you're right and that doesn't stop sound.
 
Matthew J Poes

Matthew J Poes

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Ratings
237
#11
The air exchange duct is shaped like a Z w/ 90 degree angles and lined so it kills sound by forcing the air/sound to change direction. I see them used on partitions between offices and on conference rooms where they have plenum ceilings. A tin knocker would know what it's called and that might be a regional name. I'm not a tin knocker.

Stopping sound from getting to the duct means there's less sound going through it and down its length. That's what the shaft wall is for and I've done plenty of that. You need a metal framer/drywaller familiar with commercial work for that. Those walls have STC ratings to recommend them.

But who knows? Maybe you're right and that doesn't stop sound.
Your talking about enclosing the ducting itself right? Not the register/vent? If so, wrapping it does stop some sound but it’s not the dominate way sound travels down the duct.

Wrapping or enclosing ducts is usually to stop breakout noise. It’s not nothing but it’s the dominate source in a space like this.

The typical length we shoot for to attenuate sound traveling down the duct sufficiently is like 10 feet of lines area or a muffler with 10 feet of line length. Something like that. How long depends on how much attenuation and to what frequency you want to attenuate substantially down at.

This isn’t what you are calling an air exchanger is it:
https://www.troxaustralia.com/slot-diffusers/type-vsd-35-varyset-c76116efe22682fc

Or
https://www.cooleyhvac.com/Products...user-Plenum-box/Plenum-rated-ceiling-box.html
But with duct liner?

These are called end boxes or plenum boxes and they come lined with acoustic material as an option. They are used for the reason you say but they aren’t usable in a domestic hvac system. They make domestic ones but they are too small to be effective. Really the commercial ones don’t do a lot either, but you have to do everything you can to address it. If it were the only thing you did to stop noise you wouldn’t be happy, but as part of an engineered solution it’s a good idea. My end boxes are lined in my theater.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
9,572 67 8
#12
Your talking about enclosing the ducting itself right?
make a shaft wall around the ducts.
Yes, a shaft wall around the duct would enclose the duct.

The air exchange duct is shaped like a Z
The letter Z is shaped like a Z, not like a linear diffuser or a cube.

They don't say exchanger but exchange. Small difference but it sounds off with the extra 'r'.

a muffler with 10 feet of line length
Never heard the term muffler at work/construction.
 
Matthew J Poes

Matthew J Poes

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Ratings
237
#13
Yes, a shaft wall around the duct would enclose the duct.





The letter Z is shaped like a Z, not like a linear diffuser or a cube.

They don't say exchanger but exchange. Small difference but it sounds off with the extra 'r'.



Never heard the term muffler at work/construction.
Do you do soundproofing?

I’ve been providing soundproofing services for a number of years now working with professional engineering firms and never had a problem communicating. The terms I use are pretty industry standard.

I also have never found an HVAC or construction company that knows anything about this. This is why they hire me. Even the top firms hire consultants.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
9,572 67 8
#14
Do you do soundproofing?
Sound proofing, fire proofing, water proofing and bullet proofing.

I’ve been providing soundproofing services for a number of years now working with professional engineering firms and never had a problem communicating. The terms I use are pretty industry standard.
Congratulations.

I also have never found an HVAC or construction company that knows anything about this. This is why they hire me. Even the top firms hire consultants.
We use architects who put their ideas on blueprints for general contractors to send out for bids with various trades. Companies like Gilbane, Turner, Skanska and Suffolk are some of the bigger GCs doing work in Boston but smaller GCs do a ton of tenant fit outs.

I'm just a carpenter. Basically we build walls around plumbing, electrical and HVAC. Industry standard for commercial (law offices and bank offices mostly) is all I know. C-H stud shaft wall and that air exchange thing are pretty standard in my industry. STC ratings are the architects concern and of interest to me because of this audio hobby. Nobody hires me to consult on anything. I'm strictly a neck-down hire but every so often I get to ask a few questions and I'm always looking at the design of space because the designers are working on some of the most high end real estate on the planet. This ain't none of that Pennsylvania design stuff. It's what goes on in the big city.

Anything of value I had to contribute is in my first post. To recap, get a tin knocker and a metal framer.

Oh, and I've been at this for about 40 years. Plus I'm a high school graduate.
 
F

FnFancy

Enthusiast
Ratings
3
#15
Oh, and I've been at this for about 40 years. Plus I'm a high school graduate.
Holy crap, you sir had me laughing my arse off! While I've been in my trade, plumbing, for about a third of the time as you, what you're saying makes sense. I live in southern California and take part in building all those pretty sky scrapers, the new football stadium and very high end living spaces (I know that sounded yuppy, I'm not.) the one thing in common with all these HVAC systems is insulation and isolation. A dampener between hangers and ducts, wrap the duct work in insulation and maybe even cross brace it, (internally, every duct I crawl on has a "x" bracing in the middle of the section),then see where you're at. No need to throw thousands of dollars at something that can be resolved for hundreds.

Oh, I've been at my trade 13 years, and I'm a high school drop out with my GED. Ha!

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
S

Sanyobusiness

Enthusiast
#16
The vents or the ducts? If it's the ducts you can have core board w/ C-H studs and thermafiber plus 2 layers of 5/8" to make a shaft wall around the ducts.
Good point. I was being sloppy with my terms. I was calling ducts "vents". In the basement there are no vents, only ducts along the ceiling of the basement, going from the furnace to the vertical ducts up to the rooms of the house.

And just to clarify, even though I said "soundproofing" what I really meant is "sound mitigating". In short, would there be much effect by isolating the ceiling ducts from the vertical in wall ducts with rubber junctions, putting dampers between the hangers and the ducts, and possibly wrapping the ducts themselves in some kind of sound dampening material? I like the look of the exposed ducts, but if this is a lot of wasted time and energy, maybe I'll just get my wife some earplugs?
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Ratings
9,572 67 8
#19
Oh yeah, the vent in the bedroom might be a place where you can make the air change directions to kill noise eminating from it. I used a small table in front of our air return with two verticle sides blocked off using soundproof carpet tiles. It lowered the spl by a few db. It made enough of a difference that the a/c turning on didn't require the volume being turned up on the TV.





Edit: It gets pushed into the corner to cover the grill, leaving the left side open to suck air in but stopping sound from coming straight out.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic General
Ratings
547
#20
Not exactly sure what you mean by 1. The HVAC system doesn't actually vent air into the basement itself (which doesn't really need it) — that's just where the forced air fan & heating unit are located, along with all the vents along the ceiling of the basement that go up into the upper rooms. It's not something I could move without an insane amount of money and construction.

The Dynamat is basically what I was thinking of, except I didn't know a name to look for, or how effective it would be... Something to stop the sound from vibrating the vents, and then travelling up them and coming out the vent registers in the bedrooms on the 2nd floor. Seems kind of thin though. The stuff I just looked up is only 0.067" thick... or are there different thicknesses?

Personally I'd like to avoid doing a drop ceiling, partly because the vents are below the floor joists so they wouldn't be covered by the drop ceiling anyway, and partly because if I make the basement too comfy, taxman will decide it's "living space" and jack up my property taxes. ;) Might be worth it though. The walls are still bare cinder block, so that's got to be addressed too. I was planning to cover them with fancy stucco, but now that I'm thinking more about soundproofing, I've begrudgingly had to abandon that plan.

So what should I do with the walls, keeping in mind that I'm not a millionaire?
I have owned several homes with basements and actually finished two of them.

If I understand what you are working with...the blower to the HVAC unit is in the basement and all of the ductwork for this unit is in between the floor joists. Sound is traveling to the upper floor via "vents"...do you mean ductwork or air registers?

Duct work insulation is something you can buy at the local big box hardware store. If you meant sound is coming thru the air registers...I'm not real sure what can be done.

Just as a general thought...cosmetically this is not the best option but you might be able to just attach some insulation directly to the ceiling joists to give you a sound buffer.

Concrete/cinder block walls...In my 1st home, I didn't have a lot of cash...one contractor at a time, I paid professionals for HVAC (heat pump),electrical, plumbing the bath, installing a sump pump...also the tile floor. Everything else I did myself to save money.

You don't need a ton of insultation here...I used 2 x 2 stock attached them directly to the concrete wall 16" on center and filled space in 1.5" foamboard type insulation. I left it in this state for nearly 6 mos...I eventually drywalled all the walls and the ceiling.

Tax man cometh...I asked each of the subs did I need a building permit...they all said we'll do everything to code, but only if you want to pay taxes on this newly heated space.
 

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