Sound setup for 35 x 12 room

[Bartleby]

I've been reading more about Canton and I really like what I see (I have kind of a bias for German made products). Do you have any experience with their 50k center unit? That would put me over budget, but I could probably wait on a TV if I could get fantastic audio to a place where I don't need to upgrade

 

[Pogre]

I don't think you can do much better than either the Cantons or the BMRs. I was gonna get there eventually! But yeah, those are both very, very nice speakers. I whole heartedly agree.

 

[Pogre]

Another question. With cars, and with lenses, it's the last 5 percent of performance that leads to skyrocketing price. Is it that way with audio gear too?

Yes, definitely. I think the both Canton Reference 9.2 and BMR Monitors are at the tippy top of where you really start seeing diminishing returns. To do even a little bit better would cost quite a bit more and would be incremental, imo. I've been drooling all over Canton speakers lately and this is exactly where I was planning to steer you as well. I'm pretty in line with everything @VMPS-TIII suggested. It's like he was channeling my thoughts almost, lol.

If you're interested there are a few different pairs Canton speakers that have been keeping this thread pretty lively for a while. You might find some helpful info in there, or at least join the conversation! I think @KEW is on a mission to buy a pair of everything Canton they have at AC4L so he's heard quite a few by now!

Canton Vento vs Chrono SL (models with ceramic tweeters)

I just wanted to set the record straight on the difference between the Vento and Chrono SL models that have the Ceramic tweeter! I have both, the Vento 820.2 and the Chrono SL 536.2. These are bookshelf models which have the same driver complement except the Chrono has a 7" woofer while the...

forums.audioholics.com

 

[KEW]

... I just listened to this over YouTube compression and on my crappy pixel 3 speakers and I'm blown away.

Reality check!
What you are saying here is that you were blown away by the sound quality of your Pixel 3 speakers because unless the B&W are worse (probably not), those tiny Pixel 3 drivers are what determines the level of sound quality you will hear (since they are the weakest link in the chain)!
You are in for a treat when you get some real speakers!

 

[Pogre]

Reality check!
What you are saying here is that you were blown away by the sound quality of your Pixel 3 speakers because unless the B&W are worse (probably not), those tiny Pixel 3 drivers are what determines the level of sound quality you will hear (since they are the weakest link in the chain)!
You are in for a treat when you get some real speakers!

Yeah, boy... how did I miss that?! lol.

You can't judge how a speaker sounds listening to it with other speakers!

 

[Bartleby]

Edited - I won't make a defense. Good point. They two I listened to did sound very different, but damn if I'm gonna start an audio fight with a bunch of audiophiles. I came here to learn.

More importantly, it looks like the dc line on speakers are all on sale for half off while the k line on the website are full price and I can't find the dc line there. I assume this means the dc line is last generation? Are there any significant differences between the generations?

 

[KEW]

I've been reading more about Canton and I really like what I see (I have kind of a bias for German made products). Do you have any experience with their 50k center unit? That would put me over budget, but I could probably wait on a TV if I could get fantastic audio to a place where I don't need to upgrade

That is a really nice center speaker, but it is mono and you would lose the sound stage afforded by stereo and if music is important to you, you want that. That is also part of the problem with a soundbar is they are typically around 36" long (giving you about 30" separation between the left and right speaker) and usually have drivers that max out around 3". Those are big compromises to sound quality!If you sit 6 feet away from the speakers, you would want about 6' between the speakers to give you a good soundstage!
Help me understand your room!
Is this new construction? A converted container for a "tiny house"? A trailer (not likely with 12' ceilings)? An apartment (perhaps converted in an older home)?
The reasons I am asking is to know:
1) Do you have easy access to install wiring in the walls ceiling? Do you have the skills to place wiring in wall? Do you mind exposed wires running around your room, under carpet, etc.
2) How close are the neighbors? I would generally steer you away from spending more of your budget on the deeper, more powerful subs if you are going to be pissing off neighbors (but if that is your thing, we can set you up)!

 

[Bartleby]

This will be new construction, but it's a ways off yet. I'm going to be starting a boutique medical cannabis company and the reason the space is relatively small is because I just plain don't need much space and smaller square footage means cheaper overall means I can do it sooner. I'm hoping to do a SIPS construction, though I haven't nailed down a hard quote yet to see if it's affordable. If so, they will precut holes for wiring.

At any rate, noise complaints from neighbors are the least of my worries. I do plan to be out in the country.

Also, volume is not hugely important to me. I mean, my hearing isn't what it used to be, but I'm not planning blasting to the bump and grind.

 

[Bartleby]

I was asking about that unit with the intent to pair it with two side units...

However, now I'm debating on getting one of their DC towers. I think we are looking at huge discount because it isn't easy to service (small dealer pool) and it's last gen. But I'm looking at the 3.2 DC and thinking that looks like a terrific value

 

[KEW]

I was asking about that unit with the intent to pair it with two side units...

However, now I'm debating on getting one of their DC towers. I think we are looking at huge discount because it isn't easy to service (small dealer pool) and it's last gen. But I'm looking at the 3.2 DC and thinking that looks like a terrific value

Ahh! You are serious about increasing your budget! Cool!
Just to make sure, we are talking $3000 each for the 3.2's while the bookshelf model are priced per pair!
With only 12' room depth, I would ultimately go with a 5.2.4 system! As Pogre pointed out, you don't have to get it all at once! With a pair of the 3.2's and the Denon (3600 or 4500) you'll have an amazing music system! I've also found that with good speakers, you can get away with a phantom center, so don't think you have to have a center speaker to enjoy. Given you have expressed a penchant for music over TV/HT, I think it makes sense for you to consider buying the best stereo speakers you can afford and you can still finish off your HT using great sounding but much less critical speakers to save some of the money you splurged on the main (stereo) speakers.

 

[KEW]

As a matter of general curiosity, what do you usually listen to now - what type of system/ear buds/whatever?
What do you use for your source - Streaming (tidal, pandora, etc) or CD player, etc?

 

[KEW]

I was asking about that unit with the intent to pair it with two side units...

However, now I'm debating on getting one of their DC towers. I think we are looking at huge discount because it isn't easy to service (small dealer pool) and it's last gen. But I'm looking at the 3.2 DC and thinking that looks like a terrific value

Speaker failures are not at all common. Back in the 70's most tweeters were extremely fragile and easily blown, but today's designs can handle much more abuse (but don't take that as a challenge)! Trust me, if you end up using 3.2's in your room without playing them at truly insane levels, you will never have an issue. Still it is a consideration; call Accessories4less and ask them about how it would work.

 

[Bartleby]

As a matter of general curiosity, what do you usually listen to now - what type of system/ear buds/whatever?
What do you use for your source - Streaming (tidal, pandora, etc) or CD player, etc?

I drive truck for a living right now, saving up for my pint size luxury home/ "garden." What I listen to now is my Pandora station that I've finally trained just right and stock pixel earbuds. It's not good, especially with the truck running (if you don't know, semi truck cabs are not well insulated for sound... At least in my experience).

I also have one of those Bose kneckband things - forgot the name. The earbuds sound better and don't need to be charged, so the Bose thing collects dust. It also sounds... Weird, but I couldn't explain precisely how. Muddled maybe? Distorted? IDK.

 

[Bartleby]

Okay so are the 3.2s overkill for my space? In reading various reviews I saw that tower speakers are best placed some distance from the wall. I can't have these things sitting in the middle of the walkway. Are they going to be okay close to the wall?

 

[Bartleby]

Ahh! You are serious about increasing your budget! Cool!
Just to make sure, we are talking $3000 each for the 3.2's while the bookshelf model are priced per pair!
With only 12' room depth, I would ultimately go with a 5.2.4 system! As Pogre pointed out, you don't have to get it all at once! With a pair of the 3.2's and the Denon (3600 or 4500) you'll have an amazing music system! I've also found that with good speakers, you can get away with a phantom center, so don't think you have to have a center speaker to enjoy. Given you have expressed a penchant for music over TV/HT, I think it makes sense for you to consider buying the best stereo speakers you can afford and you can still finish off your HT using great sounding but much less critical speakers to save some of the money you splurged on the main (stereo) speakers.

Yes on price. I was budgeting about 6k for a new TV. So if I kill that, it boosts my audio budget to 10k. That's a max not a target. But getting really high quality speakers for 6k that used to cost... I don't recall off hand if they were 16k or 20k but either way.... Seems pretty good to me.

I was also looking at Sennheiser hd820's and their hdv820 amp. But that's about 4k, and the 3.2s seem like a better value even if more expensive.

@KEW thanks! My father finally broke down and got a new pair of speakers, but he before that he had the same ones for like 30 years. I figure it will be important to get them with some kind of warranty to just make sure they work after shipping and so on, but it does seem unlikely they would break.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

Okay so are the 3.2s overkill for my space? In reading various reviews I saw that tower speakers are best placed some distance from the wall. I can't have these things sitting in the middle of the walkway. Are they going to be okay close to the wall?

There are two reasons why I would be hesitant to use the Vento Reference 3.2 in this space. #1 The 3.2 is 16.5" deep. I would want to locate them 18" away from the wall. That puts the fronts out 3' where they start to encroach on the walkway. #2. The 3.2 requires significant power to get them going. That means more money for amplification and a less intimate sound for my seating area.

If I wanted to upgrade my speakers I would go with the Focal Electra 1008 BE. The Focal Beryllium tweeter delivers crystal clear highs and a tight midrange for $3,000. I would add the HSU sub to enhance bass. The beauty of the Focal Electra is it sounds great at low volume as well as loud and requires less amplification. This setup saves me money while being more versatile for the space and sounding great.

 

[Bartleby]

Thanks for the suggestion! I'm not going to take the focal Electra for perhaps a stupid reason; I am biased towards German engineering. I feel like if I got these I'd be like they sound great don't they, but they are French made. I don't know.... It sounds dumb to me, but.... It's my system so I get to be prejudiced. German, Swiss, japanese, American. That's where I like to source stuff. *Shrugs

I will take your suggestion about the 3.2's though. I'm going back to an earlier suggestion for the 9.2's and looking to supplement those with the 866.2 centers and a base unit

 

[Pogre]

Thanks for the suggestion! I'm not going to take the focal Electra for perhaps a stupid reason; I am biased towards German engineering. I feel like if I got these I'd be like they sound great don't they, but they are French made. I don't know.... It sounds dumb to me, but.... It's my system so I get to be prejudiced. German, Swiss, japanese, American. That's where I like to source stuff. *Shrugs

I will take your suggestion about the 3.2's though. I'm going back to an earlier suggestion for the 9.2's and looking to supplement those with the 866.2 centers and a base unit

Canton make very nice speakers. Even if you don't have a "good" reason for your preference they're a great choice and I don't think you'll be missing out. At this level good, accurate speakers tend to sound more alike than different.

 

[Bartleby]

So let's talk receiver / amps;

Is it true I should go for double what the manufacturer says? Is this accurate;
1 x 9.2 @ 125-200amps = 400amp service
1 x 9.2 @ 125-200amps = 400amp service
1 x 866.2 @ 125-200amps = 400amp service
1 x sub 650 @ 200-350amps = 700amp service
Total amps needed: 1900

Or is the larger number, not double the larger number what I should shoot for 200 each for 9.2 and 866.2 plus 350 for sub: total 950amps

 

[Pogre]

So let's talk receiver / amps;

Is it true I should go for double what the manufacturer says? Is this accurate;
1 x 9.2 @ 125-200amps = 400amp service
1 x 9.2 @ 125-200amps = 400amp service
1 x 866.2 @ 125-200amps = 400amp service
1 x sub 650 @ 200-350amps = 700amp service
Total amps needed: 1900

Or is the larger number, not double the larger number what I should shoot for 200 each for 9.2 and 866.2 plus 350 for sub: total 950amps

No, it's not necessary go for double and I think you mean "watts", not "amps".

What I said before about receivers still applies. I prefer Denon or Marantz with Audyssey XT32 for room correction. As far as power goes you have to double your power for every 3 dB gained so differences of 20 or 30 watts really doesn't amount to much. Most AVRs in that range will have plenty of power to get good and loud.

Like I said, new models are coming out soon so I'm sure there are gonna be some price cuts on current models. For Denon I'd be looking at the AVR X3***H models and up and for Marantz the SR6*** and up.