Sony 295 ES / Elite Screens 120 tensioned

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RedCharles

Audioholic
I'm new to projectors.

I found a Sony 295 ES on Amazon warehouse for $3400 and a ceiling mounted 120" motorized tensioned screen for $500 (normally 1500) on Amazon warehouse. The 295 ES had a tear in the cardboard box, but it's brand new. I set it up and it works fine. I'm still in the return window.

I'm going to remodel a downstairs bedroom into a living room/home theater set up, and realistically, I might not get this done until October.

I bought the projector to test whether I was going long throw or ultra short throw. And I discovered that I have just enough room to project a 120 inch screen (projector central's tool was off by six or seven inches). I planned on sending the projector back. I didn't think it would make a 120 image in that space, but it did. And I'm actually pretty impressed with the image. The 295 ES is not the latest hardware anymore, but I feel like it's a good deal. Is it a good deal? Should I put it away for a few months and build my home theater or look for a better deal?
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
It seems “videophiles” might laugh at the Sony 295ES’s black levels/contrast and probably rank it below the JVC NX5 and Epson 6050UB and older JVC models.

But if you have seen both the JVC‘s and Epson’s and think the Sony performs amazing, that’s what matters at the end of the day.

Same thing with speakers, subwoofers, and AVR/AVP/amps. Everything is relative. And the only thing that matters is your opinion.

As for me, I would never buy another lamp projector. I love laser projectors. Never going back. :D
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
It seems “videophiles” might laugh at the Sony 295ES’s black levels/contrast and probably rank it below the JVC NX5 and Epson 6050UB and older JVC models.

But if you have seen both the JVC‘s and Epson’s and think the Sony performs amazing, that’s what matters at the end of the day.

Same thing with speakers, subwoofers, and AVR/AVP/amps. Everything is relative. And the only thing that matters is your opinion.

As for me, I would never buy another lamp projector. I love laser projectors. Never going back. :D
I have only had low and mid range Epson 1080p projectors simply because we put alot of hours on them and I don't want to pay $500 per lamp, which seems to be the average cost of lamps for higher end projectors. Laser has definitely piqued my interest!
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I have only had low and mid range Epson 1080p projectors simply because we put alot of hours on them and I don't want to pay $500 per lamp, which seems to be the average cost of lamps for higher end projectors. Laser has definitely piqued my interest!
The main issue, as usual, is cost. :D

The least expensive non-Ultra Short Throw (UST) 4Ke laser PJ's are the DLP-1chip Laser from JVC ($3700) and LG ($3K).

Vava has the $2700 UST 4Ke Laser DLP-1.

The prices go way up from here for Laser 4K (4096 x 2160, 8.3 million pixels) and Laser 4Ke (4096 x 2160, 4.6 million pixels), especially for 3LCD and LCoS.

But I am hooked on Lasers. So I can't go back to Lamps. :D

Another cool thing I've learned about Laser is the half-life. With some Laser PJ, you can do Custom Lamp Power (30%-100% Power). So at 100% power, the Laser should last 20,000 HRS. But when you go to 30% Power, the Laser should last 71,000 HRS.

40% Power = 61,000 HRS (if 100% is 8,500 Lumens, 40% is 3,400 Lumens)
50% Power = 47,000 HRS (if 100% is 8,500 Lumens, 50% is 4,250 Lumens).
 
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R

RedCharles

Audioholic
Ive spent more time with the sony. It's not very bright. Color and contrast and motion handling are better than my Vizio P75, but it's not as bright as I would like.

My wife would prefer a UST, but I think my kids will destroy it. Is there anything wrong with a UST?

Projector central liked the long throw LG cinebeam.

It seems none the lasers I've looked at are true 4k.

It also seems like all the ust laser projectors
have poor blacks and weak contrast ratios.

The Samsung lst9 9r whatever costs $6500 and iirc it's only 1500ish pixels vertically and only has a 1000 to 1 contrast ratio.

I would like to use the jvc nx5 but it can't do a 120 inch screen in my space.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
UST projectors have issues with edge to edge focus uniformity and brightness uniformity. The severe projection angle is a major issue. As well, if the screen has ANY flaw in it, this will be extremely visible with UST projectors. I would stick with standard throw models if at all possible in any home setup. UST is for family rooms that have zero retro access for cabling. ALWAYS leave things in place so you can retro in new HDMI cabling!!!

Yes, Sony isn't terribly bright. I think many of the manufacturers have some lost concept of a 'huge' screen being 100" or even 120", but Sony has often appeared 'dim' IMO compared to some others. Still, the contrast and sharpness of the Sony tends to be excellent.

Not sure of the pricing as a good deal or not at this point. I know my JVC that I got brand new for under $2,000 was a incredible deal. But, at $3,000 you can get a brand new Epson 5050, so that is really the competition to consider if looking at that price range.
 
R

RedCharles

Audioholic
So if I take it correctly, you have the laser, e shift 4k, JVC nz3. I see it's very bright, but is the contrast acceptable?

My wife wants me to disappear whatever long throw I get into the ceiling. I should not have shown her a video of one of those motorized lifts. So a UST is tempting because it will mean less work. I am ripping that room down to the studs, so I will be starting fresh, running new wires etc. I wanted to buy and test the equipment before I started building so I can build that room to the equipment.

The more I spend the more I have to work. My budget is under 6k. I really would like to get the JVC NX5, but I don't think I have enough distance to project a 120 inch image. On paper the 295 shouldnt even be able to do, but it does. I could move a wall back and make the nx5 work, but man, so much work just to double the contrast.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
If you are going down to studs, then you may want to consider putting a soffit in or some way to hide the projector. A lift can be SUPER expensive. I'm not sure what type of room this is, but I am blessed with a wife that doesn't come into the basement often, and certainly gets that a projection space is quite different than any other space in the home. The walls were painted burgundy and we had dark grey ceilings and carpet in the room. This made our basement rec-room area a great theater space.

If going to studs, make sure you zone the lighting into no less than two zones. Maybe more as necessary.

If I could get a high contrast model for under $3,000 I would go that route. If I didn't already have good audio equipment, I might go with a even cheaper model and ensure I put a great audio system into the room first. A good projector has a limited lifespan. Good speakers/subwoofer can last for decades and still sound great.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
...is the contrast acceptable?
Just like with the Sony PJ, you need to see for yourself. Check out the Epson vs JVC vs other brands.

Manufacturers can list whatever specs they want for contrast and brightness. But trust your eyes.

If the pictures looks very bright to you, if the blacks and contrast details look great to you, if the colors look awesome to you, that is what counts.
 
R

RedCharles

Audioholic
I did some research on how to brighten the image. I learned how to adjust the HDR settings on my UBP-820. Then I learned how to access a secret menu on the 295ES where I turned off zone convergence and pumped the RGB from 138 to 152. I also adjusted a few other normal settings. This was based on one users settings posted in an owner thread on another forum. Night and day difference.

I don't even have to run it in high lamp anymore to get the level of brightness I want. I'm pretty satisfied with the picture. And I really like the menus and remote. So I'm 90% sure I'm going to keep it.

Pretty excited to start tackling the project. I'll post a new thread when I get started. Thanks for the replies.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
I did some research on how to brighten the image. I learned how to adjust the HDR settings on my UBP-820. Then I learned how to access a secret menu on the 295ES where I turned off zone convergence and pumped the RGB from 138 to 152. I also adjusted a few other normal settings. This was based on one users settings posted in an owner thread on another forum. Night and day difference.
It would be great if you would repost that info here. It is often difficult to find specifics of a decent setup on any website, so posting your exact steps and such would be awesome. I always include a link to the original thread just to give credit where credit is due.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I did some research on how to brighten the image. I learned how to adjust the HDR settings on my UBP-820. Then I learned how to access a secret menu on the 295ES where I turned off zone convergence and pumped the RGB from 138 to 152. I also adjusted a few other normal settings. This was based on one users settings posted in an owner thread on another forum. Night and day difference.

I don't even have to run it in high lamp anymore to get the level of brightness I want. I'm pretty satisfied with the picture. And I really like the menus and remote. So I'm 90% sure I'm going to keep it.

Pretty excited to start tackling the project. I'll post a new thread when I get started. Thanks for the replies.
Well good job! :D

Just don't go over to that other forum where guys will spew tons of hearsay about how the Sony doesn't have enough contrast/black level.

As long as you can get it to look awesome, that is what counts 100%.
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
The main issue, as usual, is cost. :D

The least expensive non-Ultra Short Throw (UST) 4Ke laser PJ's are the DLP-1chip Laser from JVC ($3700) and LG ($3K).

Vava has the $2700 UST 4Ke Laser DLP-1.

The prices go way up from here for Laser 4K (4096 x 2160, 8.3 million pixels) and Laser 4Ke (4096 x 2160, 4.6 million pixels), especially for 3LCD and LCoS.

But I am hooked on Lasers. So I can't go back to Lamps. :D

Another cool thing I've learned about Laser is the half-life. With some Laser PJ, you can do Custom Lamp Power (30%-100% Power). So at 100% power, the Laser should last 20,000 HRS. But when you go to 30% Power, the Laser should last 71,000 HRS.

40% Power = 61,000 HRS (if 100% is 8,500 Lumens, 40% is 3,400 Lumens)
50% Power = 47,000 HRS (if 100% is 8,500 Lumens, 50% is 4,250 Lumens).
That's less than the JVC's I was interested in! I just don't want a $500 per year or two years operating cost with those lamps!

Do you find that the lasers perform similarly to lamps when using the reduced output settings? I could never tell a difference with my pj's when using Max power vs Eco mode/reduced power. So I always use ECO, but that still only gets me about 3000-5000 hrs.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
That's less than the JVC's I was interested in! I just don't want a $500 per year or two years operating cost with those lamps!

Do you find that the lasers perform similarly to lamps when using the reduced output settings? I could never tell a difference with my pj's when using Max power vs Eco mode/reduced power. So I always use ECO, but that still only gets me about 3000-5000 hrs.
I can easily see the difference between full power mode vs Economy mode. But economy mode can still be very bright. It helps when the full power mode is 6,000 Lumens, 7,000 Lumens or 8,500 lumens. Then the lower power modes will still be brighter than some $60,000 Native 4K Laser Projectors at their full power modes. :D

One important difference about laser is that the laser brightness stays ABOUT the same throughout the half-life of the laser. With lamps, the lumens will down significantly over time. After 2,000 HR, the brightness usually goes down significantly. For me, that’s about every year. :eek:

Another thing about lamps is that the replacement lamps never seem to be as good as the original lamps, even when they’re the same brand. And it seems the 3rd replacement lamp is even worse.

At least this has been my experience with previous PJ lamps (SharpVision, Optoma, BenQ). I have never replaced a JVC lamp (NX5). So it may be as good as new for the JVC.

Another factor we haven’t forgot about is total picture quality and contrast/black levels.

The picture quality and contrast has to be excellent to our eyes in comparison to the best. We all know this. :D
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
I can easily see the difference between full power mode vs Economy mode. But economy mode can still be very bright. It helps when the full power mode is 6,000 Lumens, 7,000 Lumens or 8,500 lumens. Then the lower power modes will still be brighter than some $60,000 Native 4K Laser Projectors at their full power modes. :D

One important difference about laser is that the laser brightness stays ABOUT the same throughout the half-life of the laser. With lamps, the lumens will down significantly over time. After 2,000 HR, the brightness usually goes down significantly. For me, that’s about every year. :eek:

Another thing about lamps is that the replacement lamps never seem to be as good as the original lamps, even when they’re the same brand. And it seems the 3rd replacement lamp is even worse.

At least this has been my experience with previous PJ lamps (SharpVision, Optoma, BenQ). I have never replaced a JVC lamp (NX5). So it may be as good as new for the JVC.

Another factor we haven’t forgot about is total picture quality and contrast/black levels.

The picture quality and contrast has to be excellent to our eyes in comparison to the best. We all know this. :D
On my 2K Epson's, I cannot tell the difference in Full power mode vs Eco, nor can I tell the difference on the multiple lamps I have replaced with. Maybe thats a nod to Epson making their own lamps, or the PJs are already not detailed enough to make a difference. LOL!
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
On my 2K Epson's, I cannot tell the difference in Full power mode vs Eco, nor can I tell the difference on the multiple lamps I have replaced with. Maybe thats a nod to Epson making their own lamps, or the PJs are already not detailed enough to make a difference. LOL!
Maybe Epson, JVC and Sony make high quality lamps and the replacements are just as good as the originals.

Can’t wait till I get my new Epson laser 4K projector. Will have to start an Epson Projector Owners Thread when I do. :D
 
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panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
Maybe Epson, JVC and Sony make high quality lamps and the replacements are just as good as the originals.

Can’t wait till I get my new Epson laser 4K projector. Will have to start an Epson Projector Owners Thread when I do. :D
I know that with my ancient mitsubishi HC4000 the lamp modes made a good difference, but contrast suffered in the brightest mode.

I'm interested to see what you think of your newest laser PJ.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I know that with my ancient mitsubishi HC4000 the lamp modes made a good difference, but contrast suffered in the brightest mode.

I'm interested to see what you think of your newest laser PJ.
The new Epson laser 4K 6,000-lumen PJ has been on my mind for the past few months. Very excited to get my hands on it. Should be getting it in the next few weeks. :D
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
The new Epson laser 4K 6,000-lumen PJ has been on my mind for the past few months. Very excited to get my hands on it. Should be getting it in the next few weeks. :D
Which model is this? I haven't seen anything directed at the home market which does this level of light output. I'm actually a bit disappointed that no manufacturer has really focused on putting out a high-brightness laser model with a lean towards home theater. It would work great for those in brighter rooms who are using .6 gain ALR screens and want true home theater performance for after dark viewing, or for those with a larger screen.

I will say that I saw Epson's L1500 projector, with 12,000 lumens, on a 180" screen in a room with an entire wall made of glass and it completely blew me away. It was the first time I've seen a projector on a large screen in a commercial space which I really thought had enough firepower for the screen it was being used on. Massive projector, but super fun to look at.

Interestingly, while looking around just now, I saw that Epson also have a native 4K LCD large venue install projector. I didn't realize that Epson had any native 4K LCD panels out there. This does look like their only model. With 12,000 lumens it looks to be a heck of a beast. At 81 grand, it isn't going into my setup anytime soon.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Which model is this? I haven't seen anything directed at the home market which does this level of light output. I'm actually a bit disappointed that no manufacturer has really focused on putting out a high-brightness laser model with a lean towards home theater. It would work great for those in brighter rooms who are using .6 gain ALR screens and want true home theater performance for after dark viewing, or for those with a larger screen.

I will say that I saw Epson's L1500 projector, with 12,000 lumens, on a 180" screen in a room with an entire wall made of glass and it completely blew me away. It was the first time I've seen a projector on a large screen in a commercial space which I really thought had enough firepower for the screen it was being used on. Massive projector, but super fun to look at.

Interestingly, while looking around just now, I saw that Epson also have a native 4K LCD large venue install projector. I didn't realize that Epson had any native 4K LCD panels out there. This does look like their only model. With 12,000 lumens it looks to be a heck of a beast. At 81 grand, it isn't going into my setup anytime soon.
Yeah, $81K is bit above my pay-grade. :D

But I guess the $81K Epson L12000QNL Native 4K 12,000-Lumen competes with the $88K Sony GTZ380 Native 4K 10,000-Lumen PJ.

The new Epson 4Ke-HDR HDCP-2.3 (4096 x 2160 resolution, 4.6 million pixels) model I have ordered is the EB-PU1006 (6,000 Lumen).

I was going to get the PU1008 (8,500 Lumen), but I figured 6,000-Lumen is more than enough for a 100% darkened HT room. The other 2 models in the line-up are the PU1007 (7,000-Lumen) and PU2010 (10,000-Lumen).







 
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