Some data on Monitor Audio BX5s... thoughts?

zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Looking into Ascend some more, I realize that a friend of mine just ordered their new tower speakers. So I can go listen to those. They're outside of my budget but maybe it will give me an idea of how their bookshelf speakers sound. The measurements on the CBM-170 look impressive and they get good reviews. I might just get those. I appreciate the information and recommendations!
Keep Ascend on your short list
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Tower speakers for $700? EMPTek!

I think you may need to put these on the short list. I have not heard them personally, but everyone on AH that has heard them, has nothing but good stuff to say about them.

If I had the $700 budget and wanted towers, I would pull the trigger.

http://emptek.com/r55ti.php
 
M

Monitor_AudioGuy

Audiophyte
I would be very careful of that speaker, and not purchase without an audition. My strong hunch is that it is in the very nasty category.

The review and measurements were instructive.

I would put that speaker in the "too clever" by half category.

I think it is aimed at the pop thump market and also plays the numbers game in a cynical way.

This speaker is unusual in that it is a 2.5 way ported, with the speakers in different enclosures. The speakers have the same T/L parameters, but the fill driver does not have a phase plug as it does not need one.

Now the enclosures of the two drivers differ in volume by 100% and are tuned 1/3 octave apart. The ports are the same dimension, but one chamber has a forward facing port and the other a rear facing port.

Now, in vented speaker there is only one alignment that really works optimally.

My suspicion is that one chamber is two big and the other too small.

This has been done I suspect to claim -3db to 36 Hz with small drivers.

I would bet that the fill (BSC) driver is tuned in an extended bass alignment. These have poor transient response and droop early.

So the bass/mid enclosure is too small to lift the droop. This might be attractive on some pop music but in other genres will be awful.

I suspect phase is a mess. In the area of maximum reinforcement of the drivers the cones and ports are in phase with the drivers, but a cycle behind.

So between the cones and the ports there is a lot of room for phase additions and cancellations.

Designing a speaker like this is very difficult. My TLs are dual, but the two lines use different drivers, and tuning is half and octave apart, and the phase angles between lines and ports only 90 degrees and not 360. Even then, this was a very difficult design.

The next issue is that by my calculation the crossover for the fill driver is too low.

I would bet that nasty droop in the 250 to 650 Hz range is real. This will make the speaker thin, in a vital part of the midrange. This will be disguised to the casual listener by the 100 Hz thump, which I also strongly suspect is real. It is quite possible that the crossover to the fill driver was made too low on purpose to help disguise the 100 Hz peak. That will fool a lot, but not experienced listeners.

The next issue is generic to Monitor audio. This is not a huge problem, but when I auditioning speakers from this stable I'm aware of it.

They use very rigid ceramic coated, magnesium alloy cones.

Now rigidity in the pass band has the advantage of excellent dispersion.

The downside of rigid cones is that they eventually do break up, and when they do you get a massive break up mode.

This break up mode is hard to deal with. I use similar cones from SEAS. This break up is a big problem. When I have auditioned MA speakers, I can hear some residual of the break up mode. You can see the residual of the break up mode in the frequency response. It is largely suppressed, but it is still visible, peaking at around 6 to 7 KHz, just were you would expect from a rigid driver this size.

Another issue is that the impedance has not been quoted honestly. I agree with the reviewer, that this speaker is a 3.5 ohm speaker and not an 8 ohm one. The impedance is low where most of the power response is.

One last point, contrary to what is expressed here, auto Eq programs do not put speakers right.

Speaker response aberrations are always associated with other problems such as retained energy and phase errors. Frequency response correction can sometimes make an improvement, but will never make a bad speaker a good one.

You have to be careful with speakers, as there are far more bad speakers than good ones, with a boat load of dreadful speakers in abundance.
Wow! Who is this "i only look specs and numbers" nerd? Pls go listen to speakers and then come back saying was it good or not. This kind of crap doesn`t tell how the speaker sound in real. I can give you 8 reviews/test where BX5 is smashing the competitors and rave comments how good it sounds in every way for the price. This nerd thinks Monitor Audio would really make a bad speaker. Pls kid, maybe it`s time to change hobby. Nobody cares your numbers or jargon. Take number of speakers to home and listen with your favourite music/movies and then make your decision.

By the way new Bronze line should be out in couple of days. You can google it by
Monitor Audio Introduces the Bronze Series also Facebook has pic of the white colour Bronze and specs/info coming soon. They have really made these better, prepare to blow your mind. It`s going to be top of the class again for MA.
 
M

Motrek

Junior Audioholic
Wow! Who is this "i only look specs and numbers" nerd? Pls go listen to speakers and then come back saying was it good or not. This kind of crap doesn`t tell how the speaker sound in real. I can give you 8 reviews/test where BX5 is smashing the competitors and rave comments how good it sounds in every way for the price. This nerd thinks Monitor Audio would really make a bad speaker. Pls kid, maybe it`s time to change hobby. Nobody cares your numbers or jargon. Take number of speakers to home and listen with your favourite music/movies and then make your decision.

By the way new Bronze line should be out in couple of days. You can google it by
Monitor Audio Introduces the Bronze Series also Facebook has pic of the white colour Bronze and specs/info coming soon. They have really made these better, prepare to blow your mind. It`s going to be top of the class again for MA.
You might like how they sound but wouldn't you be worried that you're not listening to music/movies as they were intended, if the speakers don't measure right?

In the end, I went with a pair of Ascend CBM-170s. I like Ascend's design philosophy but didn't want to step up to their towers.
 
M

Monitor_AudioGuy

Audiophyte
You might like how they sound but wouldn't you be worried that you're not listening to music/movies as they were intended, if the speakers don't measure right?

In the end, I went with a pair of Ascend CBM-170s. I like Ascend's design philosophy but didn't want to step up to their towers.

There is always people who stares too much the numbers. I have so many reviews from different countries. There is well known guys who have reviewed these. I bet someone would heard something, if there really is something wrong in the design filosophy/measurements etc. But no, all reviews/test they praise the BX5. Why? Because it is good speaker for the price. What makes me angry, is this guy haven`t even listen the speakers and he calls these crap.

"I think it is aimed at the pop thump market and also plays the numbers game in a cynical way."

"My suspicion is that one chamber is two big and the other too small."

"I would bet that the fill (BSC) driver is tuned in an extended bass alignment. These have poor transient response and droop early."

"I suspect phase is a mess. In the area of maximum reinforcement of the drivers the cones and ports are in phase with the drivers, but a cycle behind."

"I would bet that nasty droop in the 250 to 650 Hz range is real."

This TLS guy is throwing some random things by hunch. He hasn`t even listened the speakers or he doesn`t really know how they are build.

This guy is hilarious, aimed at the pop thump market. :D Monitor Audio has made over 40years speakers. And the BX line is/was very popular in many countries. Top in their price class. Why in the world they would make bad speaker, because this price range is super popular?!

Maybe it`s time to pick the speakers by ears, not some numbers. TLS guy surely doesn`t like Monitor Audio, silver/gold/platinum. Nope, they are all bad. o_O
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
Numbers are a good place to start. If you don't like the specs, then move along. I see no harm in that.

I agree that TLS can be a bit harsh very often. But, go look at his pics of his gear and his DIY speakers before you pass judgment on his opinions. He has been deep into this hobby for longer than I have been on this planet! He is absolutely one of the best resources out there for info on a wide variety of audio topics, but his tact is not always the best.
 
M

Motrek

Junior Audioholic
...
This guy is hilarious, aimed at the pop thump market. :D Monitor Audio has made over 40years speakers. And the BX line is/was very popular in many countries. Top in their price class. Why in the world they would make bad speaker, because this price range is super popular?!

Maybe it`s time to pick the speakers by ears, not some numbers. ...
You're not really making your point. Just because speakers are popular doesn't mean they are good.

I know the BX5s get a lot of good reviews, that's why I wanted them in the first place. And notice that this Polish review in question also says they sound very good.

But I can't audition the speakers, and I'm not a professional audiophile anyway. I don't trust my ears to know if something sounds "right" instead of just "good." I'm not sure I trust any human to tell me if a speaker sounds right. So I have to go by scientific measurements and it seems like these speakers measure poorly. It also doesn't help that the manufacturer's specifications are apparently inaccurate.
 
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