so their cooking cables now. . .

[mustang_steve]

Not the point. It isn't "this product" or "that product". It's whatever thought not immediately registering with the collective consciousness. Somebody pounces and everyone else venoms in. It has nothing to do with cable cookers (which seem silly to me), it's the pervasive outlook that nothing new could be any good. I mean new thought, not the new model year.

People (generally) need to be more open minded. That is VERY true here. Precluding evolution precludes evolution. If your knee-jerk reaction to anything you don't understand is "snake oil", you'll never progress in the hobby. If that's good enough for you, great. Just don't expect to ever be better than you are today.

Skepticism is good, even necessary. Just don't let it rule the day.

True, but the problem is how rarely anyone tries to prove why their stuff is better in a relevant manner. As in 20-20khz, and measurable. Too much of it does come off as "voodoo". We hear about ancient theories, philosophies, and irrelevant measurements (skin effect in audio cables for example), that it does harden us to generally look at anything new with a "that's novel, now what's wrong with it?" attitude.

I used to think DVD-A was incredible (I listened to it on my PC, the audigy2ZS supports it), Then later I found out why: the way the card works pretty much molests the crap out of any 16-bit signal (everything has to be 24 bit for their d/a conversion)...so now I'm using a media player that does the upsampling on my CPU to 24-bit. So now that I heard both (metallica black album) side by side on the computer using the "improved upsampling", they don't sound very much apart at all, even on very nice output equipment (Creek OBH-11 amp and Grado SR-125 headphones), so I've pretty much wrote off DVD-A for now. The thing was the card was nerfed to make 24-bit native signals sound better, which is utter crap.

I guess my point for going way off-topic above was that sometimes what improved is not what we think it is...in that case the "improvement" was really something else getting "reduced". I think lots of things in audio today are like this...mostly reducing the wallet instead of improving the sound. If they can prove it otherwise, in a scientific manner, maybe I would buy that space rock to put on top of my speakers in golden dish....who knows?

 

[miklorsmith]

Monster

Here's an example: I needed some cheapish, decent speaker cable that I could hide in my living room. Reluctantly and because of a lack of options, I bought a 50-foot spool of Monster XP cable at the Shark for $35. Kinda pricey for cable-by-the-foot, but I needed some. Upshot? It's pretty nice stuff. Nice teflon pipe inside, and the cable is wrapped in teflon before putting the outer jacket on. Plus, it's the most flexible, workable cable I've ever used.

Not to defend their business practices, but pretty nice stuff. Paid a little more and not too bummed about it. But the way they and Boise are slammed around here, you'd think they were killing kids.

Anything tweaky is laughed out of dodge around here. Amplifiers are thought to be immaterial to playback quality because no DBT has ever shown them to be different. CDP's are indistinguishable. Pretty much anything related to playback has little to nothing to do with sound quality, save speakers and acoustics. And, all based on theoretical ideas, not experience. And, getting back to my original point, building a system out of theory and expectation rather than ground-zero adaptation will severely limit ability to achieve the original goals, whatever they are.

And, anybody seeking reality that doesn't seriously investigate quality high-efficiency isn't seriously serious.

 

[mustang_steve]

True enough. I doubt that the teflon pipe does anything actually relevant, but their XP series cable is pretty nice stuff. I used to use it myself.

Nowadays I just use some K&B cable for one reason: I wanted something where visible runs won't look too bad, and making my own was very close to the cost of just buying it from them...so there I went. Plus at the end of the day it was still 12ga "zip" cable...nothing voodoo about it. For my two-channel setup it's still bulk 12ga, but that system is in my bedroom and can look as crappy as I want, so long as it sounds great

 

[racquetman]

So to sum up . . .

. . . "We mock what we don't understand." I don't know who said that, but I know I've heard it before. This definitely is true is some instances.

Here's an example: I needed some cheapish, decent speaker cable that I could hide in my living room. Reluctantly and because of a lack of options, I bought a 50-foot spool of Monster XP cable at the Shark for $35. Kinda pricey for cable-by-the-foot, but I needed some. Upshot? It's pretty nice stuff. Nice teflon pipe inside, and the cable is wrapped in teflon before putting the outer jacket on. Plus, it's the most flexible, workable cable I've ever used.

Not to defend their business practices, but pretty nice stuff. Paid a little more and not too bummed about it. But the way they and Boise are slammed around here, you'd think they were killing kids.

Anything tweaky is laughed out of dodge around here. Amplifiers are thought to be immaterial to playback quality because no DBT has ever shown them to be different. CDP's are indistinguishable. Pretty much anything related to playback has little to nothing to do with sound quality, save speakers and acoustics. And, all based on theoretical ideas, not experience. And, getting back to my original point, building a system out of theory and expectation rather than ground-zero adaptation will severely limit ability to achieve the original goals, whatever they are.

And, anybody seeking reality that doesn't seriously investigate quality high-efficiency isn't seriously serious.

 

[mustang_steve]

The thing though is most "experience" is purely anecdotal.

Now, how can someone tell on the internet if this anecdotal information is actually true, or is just in the mind of the person advising about it?

My belief is anything that changes the end sound, for better or for worse, can be measured scientifically. That's what i look for...unfortunately not many are willing to do such things, since that puts their gear in the most brutal of comparisons against competing products.

Given we all give some anecdotal advice from time to time, but shouldn't a manufacturer's claims be a bit more....defined?

 

[miklorsmith]

The Rub

True. That something works for someone else, or doesn't, won't guarantee any result. But, correctly stated, hard-hitting journalism isn't stepping up either.

It's a question of philosophy. Allowing possibilities instead of precluding them will ultimately provide better results. Skepticism is OK, but shouldn't rule the day. Does vibration control work? Why not build some nearly free roller bearings to find out. Put a brick on top of your CDP. Reversible. Try cleaning all your AC/speaker/RCA interfaces. Head down to a local hi-fi shop and let them show you a SET system. Ask that shop to let you demo a set of $200 interconnects.

None of these things cost much if anything but they are instructive and if they don't work, you'll Know it. There is mystery in the world and in hi-fi for those willing to admit it.

 

[mustang_steve]

True, however just accepting it as "working" but not knowing why won't help in terms of advancing in this field.

I agree sometimes things that don't make sense work, however there has to be a good reason why. I know it's a bit philosophical, but after all, when you get into experientation, that's all there is if there are no measurements to go by.

I just wish there were more measurements for this stuff that could be used to determine what could go well together. I already know about how some speakers require certain receivers/amps to sound it's best (given that implies the receiver/amp in particular has some design flaws if it's for any reason other than either power output or damping factor). However for me to see cables beyond RLC and noise rejection, I would have to see more something more, as I have always been skeptical of cables.

To me vibration damping may matter on tube gear (I never owned any tube gear and I don't plan on starting just to prove this), however it's biggest gain is on analog sources, but even that can be questionable. Thing is it takes tremendous force to jar frniture hard enough to make things skip....i can see wanting damping for a record player, but for a CD player it seems a bit much....keep in mind most CD players already have their entire transport rather nicely damped...so why damp transistors? If it's skipping, maybe it's too close to the speaker? I know back as a teenager my CD player skipped under loud passages, but that was my fault for having it four inches from a speaker with an 18" woofer being fed a few hundred watts....I doubt many audiophiles would do something like I did back then....at least I hope not

 

[furrycute]

Did someone same dampening?

I have a cheap solution that wont cost thousands of dollars.

Go to your nearest Home Depot, pick up a couple of extra large size limestone for a few bucks. Put a nice piece of table cloth over your CD player. Put the bricks on top of the table cloth. There is no way in the world you can lift up that CD player up without straining your back There you have it, world class dampening that doesn't cost an arm and leg.

 

[forty-five-rpm]

Hi all. I have just read thru all of this thread and wasn't aware that cable-cooking had already been a topic. I have been very amused by the topic. I am astounded to find yet another bull**** hi-fi scam emerging, this one, I 'm ashamed to say, from my own country.

Check this out and die LAUGHING!!!!!

(scroll down their page to "Cable Cooking")

http://www.nzmadeaudio.co.nz/index.html

"CABLE-COOKING" - AAAAGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! That outfit is just too-much!

I am going to get on the scam bandwagon too. I am going to the local $2 Shop to buy some Made-in-Taiwan RCA-RCA cables which sound just fine, and then paint them in a nice earthy-green shade. I will then repackage them as "ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY AUDIO CABLE". then I will add this blurb on the packaging... "This cable has been coated in a special protective laquer by especially trained technicians to prevent absorbtion of free-radical ions from the surounding air. This highly scientific procedure improves the overall "sonic-quality" in high-end audio systems by maintaining the delicate balance of friendly ions around your interconnect cables. Hear previously inaudible sound-nuances in your precious recordings that will leap out and astound you!! " Do not substitute for inferior product - also helps save the planet".

Original price:$2
Extra materials to repackage: $4
Retail price: don't want to be greedy, say $400 each?
Potential market: worldwide=unlimited high-end audio enthusiasts/suckers

Potential profit: $394 x ???????? - at least I aim to be a millionaire!

PS I know an audio nutter who insists that his system sounds better after arranging all interconnects to run in ruler straight lines, except that where they must bend to plug in, all bends must be exactly 90 degrees. And we won't even mention the gold plated connectors etc etc.
He's nuts.


"There's one born every minute"