Small Room needing speaker advice

[sjdgpt]

It is time for new speakers!!!!

And since the rest of the equipment is getting a bit old, why not just upgrade the entire system.

Unfortunately, I suffer from small room disease that is why I need some advice.

The room is a converted bedroom that is 11' by 13' with 8' ceiling, two windows, a small closet and doorway opening into a hallway.

The room is small, but it only has to seat two people!!

Due to furniture considerations, the ideal placement for the speakers will be on the long 13' wall. This long wall will also be used for TV system. The TV will be placed in the middle of the 13' expanse directly in front of the window (thick heavy drapes makes the room nearly dark even with direct sunlight against the window). As you are looking at the TV, the shorter 11' wall to the left is covered by bookcases, except at the point farthest from the TV which has a small window, again covered with heavy drapes. The wall behind the viewers/listeners is also covered with bookcases, except the far right corner where the doorway is located. The right wall has another book case, and the doors to the small closet, and the door position should the door be open.

Yes, somebody has a thing for bookcases. 6' tall bookcases filled with all kinds of ceramics, glass, and surprisingly, quite a few books.

The floor is covered with a very dense high grade carpet and heavy pad.




The question that I have are pretty simple.

What speakers to get?


Musical tastes run from Vivaldi and Handel to Billy Joel and Stevie Nicks, with a smattering of jazz and heavy metal thrown in to confuse the neighbors in the surrounding houses that are trying to listen in.

Movies... "Casablanca" is the finest movie ever made, but I don't think we need to worry about the Dolby sound track. And my second favorite movie is "Mister Roberts", which again suffers from the lack of a Dolby sound track. Oh sure, I watch the Star Wars, Star Treks, Jurassic Parks, Saving Pvt Ryan, and the latest Disney releases, but my favorite movies tend to actually have a lot of dialogue .


My first choice of speakers are the Polk LSi 15's with the LSiC, and two LSi 7's for surround. Sound quality must always be the the primary consideration, but other factors such as the height of the towers comes into play, and then there is WAF. While I dont have a WAF problem, a nice furniture grade appearance (actual veneer rather than vinyl laminate) is appreciated by everybody .

But I have a great concern that I am actually getting too much speaker for my room size. Is that possible? Having too much speaker?


By my computations, I can have the front of the LSi 15's about 30" from the front wall, and the center of the midranges about 60" to 72" apart (TV system with LSiC between the LSi 15's), and the seating between 72 and 84" from the front of the speaker, leaving 6" to 18" behind the seating area to the bookcases behind, and a generous spacing to the side walls.

Moving down to a smaller speaker, such as the LSi 9, would have approximately the same dimensions.

With the LSi 15's, considering my tastes in music and movies, how important would a sub really be? Especially considering the small room size?


Are the LSi 15's going to be overbearing for this room? Should I move down to the LSi 9's? And then, would a sub be that critical for the LSi 9's, considering the room size and the bass boost that could be generated from placing the LSi 9's closer to the rear wall?


Are there other speakers on the market that would have similar tall towers, good physical appearance (veneer not vinyl) and last but not least, great sound that would work in this small room?


Electronics haven't been totally decided. The primary selection has been narrowed down to the Denon 3805. Yes, I have read all the comments, pro and con, about receivers and the Polk LSi's, but the bottom line is that I have a 20 year old 2 channel NAD amp laying around, gosh darn, should the need arise.

How serious is the NAD amp? Back in it's day it was rated to 100w/channel into 8 ohms, 200(?)w/ch into 4 ohms, stable down to 2 ohms, and a huge whooping peak power with the soft clipping circuit, and was used to power my old Infinity RS4's... Emit Tweeter, 3" soft dome midrange, dual 8" woofers and 86 or 87db of efficiency in a 4ohm speaker. If the NAD could handle the RS4's, I think it can handle the Polks.


Is anybody using the Denon 3805 with the Polk LSi speakers in a small or medium room without using a sub, and can the receiver handle the demands of something on the order of the sonic booms on "U-571" at a volume level that would wake the neighbors? How about at volumes levels that won't get you slapped by the WAF? Are you happy with the bass output for music, especially for bass heavy organ or choir works?


Thanks for reading, and I hope I was clear enough in my descriptions and questions to generate some nice responses.

 

[cbraver]

If you want to stick with the Polks, maybe get a pair of the 9s and consider a Sunfire True Sub or Pinnacle's compact ones.

If your willing to stray from Polk a bit, I always highly recommend M&K S150s and other M&K products....but they are not as pretty. In your case, you should really consider Dynaudio's products. Fantastic sounding and a wide range of options. The Audience and maybe the contour series seem to be within your budget.

Good luck! Sounds like you got a really cool room to work with. Lots of character.

-Chad

 

[nm2285]

The Polk's are a nice choice (I used their tweeter in a DIY speaker just recently and love it). Asking for other options is a death trap. In this price range, you have an unbelievable amount of choices. Go to your retailers and listen to as many as you can.

The LSi 15s you have chosen may be a bit of overkill. I see no reason you need the towers in such a small room. In fact, you could easily step all the way down to the LSi 7s and add a sub. Make sure the sound is still to your liking with this combo. If you end up with the 15s, I certainly wouldnt think you'd need a sub.

My main suggestion outside of the Polks would be Energy Connoisseur series (C-3 for bookshelf, C-5 for floorstanding). They're outstanding speakers. Very flat and natural, yet very musical. They should go well with a 3805.

Don't worry about the 3805. As you stated, the NAD amp will be quite a monster if needed. Also, if you choose the smaller speakers and a sub, you can set the main speakers as "small" so that the receiver doesn't have to worry about the low-end and can save some of its power.

Hope this was helpful!

 

[sjdgpt]

Thanks for the advice

Yes the towers seem like over kill, but by time I factor in stands, the risk of toppling from a run in with a vacuum cleaner, or worse, my own big butt, the towers seem like a good option.

And that is my concern... over kill.

Some speakers just dont sound worth a flip at low volume levels, and in that room moderate volume levels may be too much to handle.


Unfortunately, I dont have an audio dealer in town, or the next town, or the next town. I can make a day trip and visit two or three respectable dealers, but I want to have an idea about their equipment choices before I get there.


Thanks all

Hopefully by Xmas the new system will be chosen and in place.

 

[cbraver]

Yes the towers seem like over kill, but by time I factor in stands, the risk of toppling from a run in with a vacuum cleaner, or worse, my own big butt, the towers seem like a good option.

You just need a good set of stands. My M&K stands (unfortunetly they only fit M&K speakers) weigh around 60lbs I believe, each! They are actually made by York (the barbell company). If you were to lean on my S150s on those stands, you still can't put the thing over. All the weight is at the bottom of the stand.

Anyways. I'm still going to restress M&K speakers in your application. The S150s might be overkill for your room, but they offer some smaller speakers that offer awesome sound. They might just be black, but they are really fantastic speakers and are not too ugly. If you want, you can even paint them as I have seen done before (M&K says it's ok to do as well).

-Chad

 

[willy65000]

Mike, It's verry easy to overpower a small room with large speakers. I actually have a smaller room than yours and I struggle with this problem as well. I want a big full range tower but then I end up gettin boomy bass. I've had good luck with small driver speakers for music and then I just dial in the sub as needed for movie watching. The whole polk LSi line has gotten some great reviews although I have not listened to them yet. If you're interested, a friend of mine has a week old set of Pinnacle BDC 1200's that he couldn't afford in the first place. Verry nice with multiple small drivers. Great for a smaller room. They retail for like $1200.00 and I Think he's asking around $800.00. Verry nice looking curved wood enclosure.

Good luck,

Bill

 

[sjdgpt]

Thanks Willie

Thanks for the advice.

I wasn't totally sold on the Polk's and have been shopping other companies, and in a strange twist, I have been receiving basically the same info from those speaker companies... basically it is possible to overpower a room. Everybody says it can be done, BUT I would be better off not.

Thanks for confirming that bass output is an issue with the towers in the small room.

Now, I am just looking for a bookshelf type speaker that has a very solid low end, great mid range, and smooth treble. The Polk LSi 9's seem to fit that bill, but I am still not convinced. And since my plan is buy these speakers to last me more than a few years, I am more than willing to continue to look for the perfect sound and appearance.

 

[willy65000]

Paradigm studio 40 V3. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome.

 

[Nick250]

Speaking of overkill, why the heck do you need a 3805 for in that small room? I suggest the 2105 or even the one below the 2105 whose model number I cannot think of, would fill the bill for you very nicely. I promise you there would be no audible difference in sound or volume level between these three. Now if you want the 3805 because it has better "toy value" and money to is not tight, go for it. I can totally understand. I get these urges myself. But IMHO in these forums there is a lack of understanding that the choice of receiver has very little impact on the sound you hear at home. You want your system to sound great, then it's speaker choice, room acoustics and proper set up that make up 99% of what you hear and that is where one needs to put their time and energy. Sorry for the rant sjdgpt, because it is not directed specifically at you, I have been wanting to say this in the forum for a while.

Getting back to speakers, I have three Paradigm Studio 20s as my mains and center and Paradigm Mini Monitors as my surrounds in a small room and I love the sound for both music and movies.

Good luck and enjoy!

IMHO, YMMV, yadda yadda

Nick

 

[sjdgpt]

Hey Nick, no problem.

The 3805 is not the choice because of "power". It is simply them there bells and whistles that just make life soooooo much fun.

Kind of like picking out a wife from the mail order bride magazine, do you pick out the one with the .....

Ah, you get the idea.

 

[Nick250]

Hey Nick, no problem.

The 3805 is not the choice because of "power". It is simply them there bells and whistles that just make life soooooo much fun.

Kind of like picking out a wife from the mail order bride magazine, do you pick out the one with the .....

Ah, you get the idea.

I understand completely