Small living space: help me understand what I need

Alamar

Alamar

Full Audioholic
Now, the conclusions from my own preliminary research say that I should just get a HTIB and forget about the rest. If i were to do this, the Onkyo HT-S907 seems to be the appropriate choice (ignoring the fact it has a DVD player). I won't bore you with the details, but this is just to give you an idea.
I'm not much of a HTiB kind of guy. When I was shopping for speakers for my apartment and didn't care much for HTiB systems. They either sounded "imprecice/foggy" [I don't know the right term to describe my impression]. The also didn't have a good response over a wide variety of frequencies.

1. I really do not care about output power/ decibel level. In fact, high levels of this is rather undesirable given my living conditions. Intuition suggests that if I compromise on this, I should be able to get good quality speakers that cost less than ones intended to deliver a lot of power. Is this correct?
Your living space is small enough that I wouldn't think that output level should be much of a factor in your decision. Even hard to push speakers with a budget [decent 400$ receiver] will probably be loud enough for an apartment.

2. There don't really seem to be speakers with great sound quality (frequency response, distortion) at relatively low output level. Am I wrong? After all, how loud can I make it in a 16'x11' apartment room?
You should be able to find plenty of speakers that are "budget" speakers that have decent quality. I would think that a good set of budget speakers may actually sound better if it was quiet.

Of course my ears will not reflect your tastes .... Also you get what you pay for ....

3. If I'm wrong on the above, can someone give counter examples?
I would suggest that you do some listening tests. I would look around for speakers that are getting decent reviews and see if you can listen to them to see what you like.

4. If I were to purchase speakers separately (and not as a 5.1 or whatever), then is there any reason why front L/R speakers are different from surrounds?
If you listen to pure stereo modes [2 channel music] then it's not necessarily a bad idea to make sure that the entire set of front speakers are high quality. For music many people that I know only use their fronts and the surrounds never get a workout.

This is good enough reason by itself to at least consider higher quality fronts than surrounds.

5. What is the minimum speaker configuration I need to start off and be able to add to later on? 2.1? 2.0? 3.1? (2.1 + center).
There are too many variables to answer for you. If it were me the absolute minimum that I'd start at would be a 2.1 system esp. if I were on a budget. Inexpensive speakers don't sound good to me without bass management. YMMV.

However if you're a music primary sort of guy I'd check out the bookshelf speaker shootout review that Audioholics had recently. This is esp. true if you want to start out with a 2.0 system that sounds OK until you can buy more components.

6. Big sound on movies are not too important to me. I do like my music to reproduce accurately though.
I guess a lot depends on the budget you have for speakers. If you're a 90%
music guy then I'd consider getting the best 2.1 or 2.0 system that you could afford and then add the rest of the pieces later.

The only problem with my suggestion [for me ... maybe not you] is that I like to get speakers that are as closely timbre matched as possible. When you buy your music speakers keep that in mind. I like to stay with the same manufacturer and [if possible] model of speakers so that sound effects that move between speakers don't sound jarring as the move from one speaker to the next.


BTW: Take my opinions with a grain of salt ... I'm a newb. However I do have a 5.1 system in my apartment so I do have some experience there.
 
A

alexsound

Audioholic
Hi.. I live in a small apartment in suburban USA. I think I've already made things very bad simply by telling you this.

I'm looking for a HT system. Nothing exquisite. I will be getting a 42" plasma TV (I wanted something smaller to keep it in proportion to my space, but not too many other choices make economic sense). Let's assume that I'm also getting a respectable DVD player with 720p upconverting capability.

Now, the conclusions from my own preliminary research say that I should just get a HTIB and forget about the rest. If i were to do this, the Onkyo HT-S907 seems to be the appropriate choice (ignoring the fact it has a DVD player). I won't bore you with the details, but this is just to give you an idea.

However, I am one to spend a little more if the gains in quality are significant.
So assuming that I buy a similar ($400 or less) AVR from Onkyo or someone, what choices do I have for speakers? Please keep in mind the following:

1. I really do not care about output power/ decibel level. In fact, high levels of this is rather undesirable given my living conditions. Intuition suggests that if I compromise on this, I should be able to get good quality speakers that cost less than ones intended to deliver a lot of power. Is this correct?

2. There don't really seem to be speakers with great sound quality (frequency response, distortion) at relatively low output level. Am I wrong? After all, how loud can I make it in a 16'x11' apartment room?

3. If I'm wrong on the above, can someone give counter examples?

4. If I were to purchase speakers separately (and not as a 5.1 or whatever), then is there any reason why front L/R speakers are different from surrounds?

5. What is the minimum speaker configuration I need to start off and be able to add to later on? 2.1? 2.0? 3.1? (2.1 + center).

6. Big sound on movies are not too important to me. I do like my music to reproduce accurately though.

Thanks for reading my long-winded post.
My 2 cents.
Onkyo 575 or 605 for your receiver/amp.
Infinity Beta 20's fronts, C250 center (you can add surrounds later)
since it sounds like music reproduction is more important to you, I would go
without a sub (for now)
The Infintiy Beta's are about to be discontinued, or actually have been discontinued by Infinity, but are still widely available, and you can pick them up off the WEB, from a reputable dealer fairly cheap.

The Beta 20's have 6" woofers, and for a small speaker (they are actually kinda bulky for having a 6" woofer) they have very good bass response. They have excellent low level resolution, and excellent imaging. The C250 is the matching center for these.

In my opinion, you would be hard pressed to find better high frequency performance, hell, overall performance than these speakers can provide for the money. You can always add a sub and surrounds later, if you want.
 
A

AbyssalLoris

Audioholic
Ok, I read that other thread. Thanks. I also take the advice of Avaserfi and others. Thanks again.

So the receivers may not be speced 'honestly' by some manufacturers. The lesson I learn is:

1. Look carefully into the spec of an AVR to see whether it defines the full bandwidth output power or at a single frequency.

2. Look at what speaker resistance (or impedance) it is driving at that output power rating.

These two I already kinda-knew because a power rating only makes sense if you know the load impedance and also because said impedance as well the amp's output voltage/current depends on frequency. But I did not suspect that manufacturers would be dealing with this in an underhanded manner. Thanks for alerting me to this.

3. Output power rating may not be for all channels being driven simultaneously.

That last one, I did not think of at all. It is absurd to advertise a 7.1 AVR while specifying its single channel output power! Very un-cool.

I might have to take a look into the manual of the Onkyo 605 (or whatever it is called) that I was considering. In any case, I think I'll nail down my speakers and then find a reasonable AVR to fit it.

So, to come back to the point, I have shortlisted some speakers I'd like to look into based on the reviews, ratings and other information I have found online, not to mention their prices, sizes, looks (I know those last two have a lot of you shaking your head in disbelief) and what not.

The question is where do I get my hands on these? Best Buy and other such stores do not appear to carry brands like the ones I'm looking at. There may be one or two specialty AV stores that carry speakers like these. Can anyone recommend stores in the greater Chicago area? Please keep in mind that I'm only looking at what are probably the cheapest bookshelves made by each of these manufacturers.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
A

AbyssalLoris

Audioholic
That was a great article. Very illuminating. Plenty of things are much clearer now. I have a few comments after reading the article, but it is way too late in the night to post those. I guess I will return tomorrow.
 
A

AbyssalLoris

Audioholic
Been a busy couple of days for me (started new job). I can't remember what comments I had about the article and am too tired to go back and figure it out.

In any case, here are the bookshelves I am shortlisting (in no particular order). They are all around the $300/pair price point. Deciding the price limitation helped me reject many contenders.

1. Monitor Audio R90/BR1 (unsure about prices, but shouldn't be too far from my range)
2. Mordaunt Short Avant 902i ($350)
3. PSB Alpha B1 ($280)
4. AV123 Onix Reference 0.5 ($300)
5. Axiom Audio M3 v2 ($330)

In addition to these, I also considered the following, though I am somewhat disinclined to pick one of them (for various intangible reasons):

6. Mirage Nanosat/Omnisat series
7. Ascend Acoustics CBM170
8. Definitive Technology Pro Monitor 800

There were many other contenders also, but the above are the ones I like (before even listening to them). I haven't yet gone about trying to audition any of these and my only foray into an AV store brought me face to face with a Polk RTi6, which would also be in the same category. I didn't have a chance to really test it that day as the store was closing, but I'd appreciate anything anyone can tell me about how it would compare to my shortlist.

So please feel free to share your opinions, your favorites and any information you might have about peculiarities of any speaker in my shortlist that I should know of.

Also, if I've missed any great choices in the same playing field, please let me know. I do intend to go out (maybe next weekend) to try and listen to some of these speakers.
 
A

AbyssalLoris

Audioholic
Please feel free to post opinions on the above.

In the meanwhile, can anyone in the Chicago area direct me to some good (where I can listen without being hassled) AV stores? It would be great if these tend to carry some budget bookshelves (in my price range - $300-350 a pair). This weekend will give me a chance to go check out some speakers. Weekdays are all but impossible (I live and work in the suburbs).
 

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