Small 5.1 satellite setup

[Swerve]

I'm helping a friend set up his family room with a 5.1 small speaker setup. He wants the speakers to be small to meet his wife's decor criteria (some nice little Bose ones) but wants a decent sounding setup as well. Also, he'll be focussing bigger and better (and more expensive) equipment in his basement media room in the not so near future.

He's got a Harman Kardon AVR-354 that he'll be using in this setup.

So far, I've suggested he go and spend a Saturday listening to a bunch of small speakers that meet his size criteria with the same music CD and BluRay movie so that he can sample a few options and see what he likes sound and price wise, before taking the next step.

Without listening to any myself, I'm thinking he should be safe listening to Energy, Paradigm, and maybe Klipsch product.

Here's some options I'm thinking of so far for him based on his current yet somewhat flexible budget.

Energy Take 5 Classic (newegg 179 right now) + Energy ESW-C8 sub
4 Energy RC Minis + 1 RC Mini Center + Energy ESW-C8 sub
Paradigm Cinema 70CT
Klipsch HDT500

What are your opinions of these?
What else is out there that you would suggest that's comparable to these?

Thanks for your input!

 

[sholling]

I'm not familiar with the Paradigm but none of the others. What the Klipsch and Energies that you list have in common is that the speakers crossover to the sub at 150hz - way too high.

First choice: 3x Energy Take FPS as L,R, & C; 2x Energy Take SAT as surrounds; and 1x Hsu STF-2. Total $1030 plus S&H.

Second choice: 3x Energy Take LCR instead of the larger FPS, 2x Energy Take SAT as surrounds; and 1x Hsu STF-2.For about $1000 plus S&H.

What they have in common is that they would look great and all cross over to the sub at 80hz, and the Hsu STF-2 is a lot more sub. If money were tight and I were him I would go with an $800 3.1 system for now using a good set of L, R, & C speakers and add in the surrounds later.

If those don't fit the requirements then look at some of these other options.

Third choice: Klipsch Quintet SL 5.0, and the same Hsu STF-2 linked above. Total $750 plus S&H. They would look great and the 3 fronts would crossover at 80hz, the surrounds crossover at 120hz so the receiver would have to allow individual crossover points for each location. Some receivers do and some don't. Klipsch tend to be bright so I'd try to listen to a set and make sure he likes them before buying. Mini review

 

[Seth=L]

H/K's mid line receivers do allow for separate cross-over points to be set, which improves things.

 

[flippo]

mirage os3 satellites

take a look at Mirage. I love the sound. You will need a sub but what satellite won't

 

[alphaiii]

If you have the $$, I would say the RC-Minis would be well worth it over the Take Classic.

And with the RC-Mini setup, you could crossover the RC-Mini @ 120Hz, and the RC-Mini Center at 100-110Hz.


And I agree with sholling....look at some other subs. A good, compact option (and cheaper option) is the Energy ESW-V8, which would be a significant step up over the entry level ESW-C8. Also, the HSU STF-1 is a good pick if the budget is tight or you need a "smaller" sub... but for more sub, the HSU STF-2 would be a great option.

 

[alphaiii]

Second choice: 3x Energy Take LCR instead of the larger FPS, 2x Energy Take SAT as surrounds; and 1x Hsu STF-2.For about $1000 plus S&H.

What they have in common is that they would look great and all cross over to the sub at 80hz...

I doubt the Take LCR can play to 80Hz, and am certain the Take SAT needs to be crossed over higher than that.

The RC-Mini and RC-Mini center have very similar specs (-3db at 80Hz and 78Hz respectively) to the Take SAT and LCR (80Hz and 75Hz), and I have no doubts they are better speakers with better drivers....and their ratings are very optimistic.

I'd say the Take LCR and Take SAT would need roughly the same, if not slightly higher crossover settings as the RC-Mini/Mini Center.


Given that the pricing is roughly the same (check Vann's for deals on the RC speakers) - the RC-Mini/Mini Center is a much better option IMO than the Take SAT/LCR.... all around better speakers - larger better woofer, MDF cabinets with real wood veneer, same tweeter as the rest of the RC-series....

 

[sholling]

I doubt the Take LCR can play to 80Hz, and am certain the Take SAT needs to be crossed over higher than that.

I have no way of knowing other than published specs. It looks like it would be best to crossover the SAT at 90 or 100hz because of a bit of roll off at the low end of the rated frequency response of 80hz - 23khz. Do you have some other information on these? Based on the published specs it looks like the LCR should be ok crossing over at 80 or better yet 90hz. The RC-Mini is rear ported meaning you can't wall hang it and get any bass, however if all 5 were shelf mounted they would be a good choice as well.

I'll revise my recommendation - if it were me looking for a high WAF second system I'd buy the FPS for the very few extra dollars and the LCR as satellites.

Take FPS:

• System Type: Magnetically Shielded, 2-way horizontal or vertical speaker
• Frequency Response: 60 - 23 kHz +/-3dB
• Recommended Amplifier Power: 15 - 200 watts (RMS / Channel)
• Components: Chambered 1" Aluminum Dome, Dual 4-1/2" Elliptical Surround woofers in cast baskets with Dual 4-1/2" Elliptical Surround passive radiators
• Impedance: 8 ohms nominal / 4.5 ohms minimum
• Useable Bass Response (-10db Anechoic): 55 Hz
• Sensitivity (anechoic): 90dB
• Sensitivity (2 speakers in a typical room): 93dB
• Crossover Point: 2.2kHz
• Overall Dimensions: 6-1/2" x 24-3/4" x 4-1/4"
• Weight: 11 lbs
• Finishes: Silver
• Warranty: 5 years

Take LCR:

• System Type: Magnetically Shielded, 2-way Bass Reflex, Front Vented horizontal or vertical speaker
• Frequency Response: 75 - 23 kHz +/-3dB
• Recommended Amplifier Power: 15 - 135 watts (RMS / Channel)
• Components: Chambered 1" Aluminum Dome, Dual 3-1/2" Elliptical Surround woofers
• Impedance: 8 ohms nominal / 4.5 ohms minimum
• Useable Bass Response (-10db Anechoic): 75 Hz
• Sensitivity (anechoic): 88dB
• Sensitivity (2 speakers in a typical room): 91dB
• Crossover Point: 2.2kHz
• Overall Dimensions: 12-1/2 x 6-1/2 x 4-1/4"
• Weight: 7.8 lbs ; 3.5 kg
• Finishes: Silver

Take SAT:

• System Type Magnetically Shielded, 2-way Bass Reflex, Front Vented
• Frequency Response 80 - 23 kHz +/-3dB
• Recommended Amplifier Power 15 - 125 watts (RMS / Channel)
• Components Chambered 1" Aluminum Dome, 3-1/2" Elliptical Surround woofer
• Impedance 8 ohms nominal / 4.5 ohms minimum
• Useable Bass Response (-10db Anechoic) 85 Hz
• Sensitivity (anechoic) 87dB
• Sensitivity (2 speakers in a typical room) 90dB
• Crossover Point 2.2KHz
• Overall Dimensions 8-1/8" x 6-1/2" x 4-1/4"
• Weight 5.3 lbs ; 2.4 kg

RC-Mini:

• System Type Bass Reflex, Rear Vented
• Frequency Response 80Hz-23000Hz +/- 3dB
• Recommended Amplifier Power up to 150 watts RMS
• Components 1" Aluminum Dome Tweeter, 4-1/2" Kevlar Ribbed Elliptical Surround Woofer
• Impedance 8 ohms nominal, 4 ohms minimum
• Useable Bass Response (-10db Anechoic) 70 Hz
• Sensitivity (anechoic) 88dB
• Sensitivity (2 speakers in a typical room) 91dB

 

[alphaiii]

My comments are based on reviewers' measurements and owner experience with Energy speakers in general.

For instance....owners of the RC-Mini and RC-Mini at AVS have routinely states that Audyssey sets the crossover's for these speakers at 120-150Hz and 110-120Hz, respectively. This would suggest the rolloff is much higher than the stated specs, particularly for the RC-Mini.

Not only can I not imagine the lesser quality 3.5" woofer in the Take SAT giving further low-end extension than the 4.5" kevlar woofer of the RC-Mini when cabinet size is relatively the same.... but also take a look at the specs for the Take SAT. Energy lists the anechoic boundary (-10dB) at 75Hz. So the -3db @ 75Hz spec is not anechoic, but "typical" in-room response...and it would seem an optimistic spec at that. And, the -10db anechoic rating for the RC-Mini is actually lower at 70Hz.

It certainly isn't uncommon for manufacturers' specs to be optimistic...and while I am a big fan of Energy's RC-series...I still don't think the listed specs are necessarily accurate.

Also, many of the AVS owners are using the RC-Mini wall mounted (using the mounting bracket)... so even with rear wall bass reinforcement, Audyssey is still setting the xover to 120-150Hz.

BTW, I'm not sure I understand why you say you can't wall mount the RC-Mini. These speakers don't pump out alot of bass, so they have plenty of breathing room with the supplied wall mount bracket. Yes, they can't be put flat on the wall with a keyhole mount....but the advantage of the bracket is that it allows some flexibility in positioning/direction of the speaker, and doesn't limit it to flat on the wall placement.

 

[Swerve]

Thanks for all the great information everyone!

I really like energy speakers. My brother's got connoisseur RC70 mains and an RC mini center... soon he'll upgrade his center to an RC LCR but I still like the set up as is. This feedback confirms the direction I believe my friend should take.

To me, this is looking like the way to go at the moment: Take LCR 3.1 with ESW-V8

I'm not sure about the passive radiators... the FPS line seems to be the only ones that Energy uses them in... That and their size likely won't fit the criteria.

First choice: Hsu STF-2

How do you compare the HSU at 349 to the Energy ESW-V8 at 225? Is the HSU worth the extra 125? Not really a lot more, but that could make the difference between getting rears now or later...

take a look at Mirage. I love the sound. You will need a sub but what satellite won't

thanks, but too expensive

 

[alphaiii]

How do you compare the HSU at 349 to the Energy ESW-V8 at 225? Is the HSU worth the extra 125? Not really a lot more, but that could make the difference between getting rears now or later...


thanks, but too expensive

I would think the STF-2 would be a substantial difference over the ESW-V8. The STF-1 and ESW-V8 would be more comparable, although I'd bet the HSU still has an edge in output.


As for Mirage, there aren't really any deals on the OS3 right now. There are, however, very good deals on the OMD series at Vanns.

3 OMD-5 across the front would actually give a speaker you could cross over at/under 100Hz, and would be much better quality over the Take LCR. Of course, they are a larger speaker, and 3 would cost $600 without a sub.

 

[alphaiii]

Thanks for all the great information everyone!

I really like energy speakers. My brother's got connoisseur RC70 mains and an RC mini center... soon he'll upgrade his center to an RC LCR but I still like the set up as is. This feedback confirms the direction I believe my friend should take.

To me, this is looking like the way to go at the moment: Take LCR 3.1 with ESW-V8

I'm not sure about the passive radiators... the FPS line seems to be the only ones that Energy uses them in... That and their size likely won't fit the criteria.

Passive radiators are a way to get some extra bass extension out of sealed cabinets - an alternative to ports that allows for smaller cabinets. My guess is Energy went with the larger 4.5" driver/passive radiator combo in the Take FPS to keep the low profile small cabinet size, but still give better bass extension that the smaller, dual ported Take LCR.

If you are going to consider the FPS for your friend, I'd recommend checking out the Mirage OMD-5 for the same price.

If you are considering the Take LCR setup, I still recommend three RC-Mini Centers (which is actually an LCR and can be used horizontal or vertically) as a better quality speaker in the same price range. Yes you lose that "flat panel" look, but you'd be getting a better speaker. Of course, it looks like the Rosenut is the only option for that left at Vanns.

Of course, if you friend wants small satellite style, then 3 RC-Mini in cherry for $100 each (from Vanns) is my recommendation.

 

[alphaiii]

One more thing... if you friend was placing these speakers in a cabinet/bookshelf, then the Take LCR then may become a better option than the RC-Mini Center. This because the rear porting of the RC-Mini is not optimal for enclosed placement.

 

[sholling]

I think the best thing is to get out and give a to the RC Mini and the FPS and the LCR. Speakers are so subjective that the buyer really should get out and listen and see what he likes. I'd also have him look at the Klipsch.

As far as the subwoofer goes how big is the room?

 

[Swerve]

As far as the subwoofer goes how big is the room?

It's about 20x12' with openings to the dining room and entrance closet. I know with larger rooms, you need a sub with more output to fill the room, but I don't think he's looking for all that bass in the family room. That being said, the HSU STF-2 could move downstairs into his media room (18x12, walls all around) and it would be perfect in there, so it wouldn't be a wasted expense.

Yes, he'll need to get out there and listen to them all and choose the ones he likes, but he will have this guidance

 

[alphaiii]

I think the best thing is to get out and give a to the RC Mini and the FPS and the LCR. Speakers are so subjective that the buyer really should get out and listen and see what he likes. I'd also have him look at the Klipsch.

Very true. I should have phrased my recommendations more along the lines of...don't discount these speakers in your search.