single 8" vs. dual 6.5"

[just-some-guy]

i have a pair of 12" 3 way KLH speakers in my garage. 100wpc reciever. no need for a sub, and clear/loud sounds. imo, they are hardly crap.

 

[WmAx]

I might not have the best bedside manner, but I don't waste time dancing around the issue(s). Those Sony speakers might be fine for a workshop or garage to play back ground music, but that's about the extent of it.

Budget is no excuse. I recommended a speaker in that price range that is VASTLY superior in both build quality and objective performance, and will work fine for music full range.

If you are stuck on towers, and you expand your budget to $250, you can get a pair of Infinity Primus P252 speakers. These are also far superior to the Sony speakers in every way. In fact, they sound more natural/hi fidelity than many speakers that cost 3 or 4x more. Not surprising if you realize how these were designed(in a lab using blinded rotation testing of the competitors with many trained listening subjects). They can be used full range for music, but for ultimate potential, use a high grade subwoofer with them. You can also increase SQ by simply putting a high quality acoustical dampening material in them; the stock material is insufficient to the job.

-Chris

 

[KEW]

For the record, KLH is a pretty old name and over the years has made speakers which represented excellent quality for the price and speakers which you regretted spending $20 at Best Buy for.
The K in KLH stood for Kloss as in Henry Kloss who is probably most famous as designer of the original Advent speakers. He also contributed to the design of several other speakers which were well respected. However, he has absolutely no association with today's KLH.
It is a shame how another company will buy a well-respected name and milk it's reputation.

Without specifying the model (and date of manufacture) any comments about KLH are useless.

Cheers,
Kurt (who's first real speakers were KLH 6V's bought in 1974).

 

[just-some-guy]

It is a shame how another company will buy a well-respected name and milk it's reputation.

Without specifying the model (and date of manufacture) any comments about KLH are useless.

think ALTEC LANSING. maybe JBL ?

mine KLH's are BB specials. but for the price, they are great.

 

[TLS Guy]

Assuming the drivers are within 1/2 wavelength of their shortest fq., they are functionally a single driver, and what we need to look at is surface area.

6.5" = 3.25in*3.25in*Pi = 10.6*Pi in^2
x2 drivers = 21.2 in^2

8" = 4in * 4in * Pi = 16*Pi in^2

So the dual 6.5" has more surface area and should, all else being equal, be the better LF driver.

Of course, the reality is there's a *lot* more to account for.

Surface area does not have anything to with it. Fs and Qts everything. Adding drivers does not increase bass extension only power handling.

However using two drivers makes diffraction compensation easier, so the speaker will have a better mid and upper bass output, usually, if correctly designed.

Really looking at the Fs of a driver pretty much sets the lower extension possible. If it is a low Qts driver low frequency cut off will be significantly above Fs. For driver with a Qts between 0.35 and 0.42 it is usually possible to get F3 fairly close to Fs.

 

[yepimonfire]

the KLH's i got were B-PRO6 models, the woofers sounded fantastic, but the tweeters are ****. and ive been to KLH's website, they dont have a good selection at all, mostly poorly made bookshelfs with way to many "novelties"

 

[njedpx3]

Also consider Cambridge Audio S-30

Utter trash.

Get Behringer B2031P. It is VASTLY superior. You won't do better for the money, anywhere.

If you have , or will buy subwoofer(s), the Behringer B2030P is a better option. However, the B2030P is designed expressly to be used with subs, so it does not LF extension. The B2031P is designed to work without subs, but you give up a bit of mid-range resolution in exchange for the LF extension.

-Chris

I agree and disagee. The Behringer 2030Pis a great speaker , much much better than the two Sony speakers you are looking at.

However, I humbly dispute the statement "You won't do better for the money, anywhere". I will put Cambridge Audio S-30s up against the 2030Ps anyday.

The Cambridge Audio S-30 is about the same as the Behringer 2030P but comes in a little neater, cleaner, more asthetic package. You can get them in black or a natural wood finish.

The are around $199 -$219 a pair .http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CAS30 BLK

A review: http://www.testfreaks.com/hifi-speakers/cambridge-audio-s30/


I also have them installed as the primary speakers in my National Woods Cabin

However, restating, I agree with WmAx (Chris) the Behringher 2030Ps are aslo excellent speakers.


Peace and Good Sound,

Forest Man


P.S.- An inexpensive but great sounding subwoofer is the Dayton SUB-120 HT for as little as $120 from Parts Express http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-635&source=googleps

 

[yepimonfire]

i have a set of bookshelfs that are extremly similar to those, exact same size etc. but the cabinets are made of thick material (not sure what kind) and the inside is heavily acoustically cushioned, they sound really really good, but they need a subwoofer.

 

[lsiberian]

7.1 music sound unecessary. Surrounds are not that important and I'm sure the Sony speakers would be fine. They are junk by no means. Consider the cost and then listen to them. My Father-in-law has similar speakers which he really likes. He has no clue about what I consider good sound, but he likes his setup and that's all that really matters. This isn't life or death. Sure the Behringers would smoke the system he's looking at, but if he insists on the Sony's he should get them. I'd do the duals. You can add a sub later to take care of the low stuff.

 

[KEW]

i have a set of bookshelfs that are extremly similar to those, exact same size etc. but the cabinets are made of thick material (not sure what kind) and the inside is heavily acoustically cushioned, they sound really really good, but they need a subwoofer.

While the driver size doesn't tell the entire story, I believe your statement above is largely correct (as inferred to the S-30's).
Discussion of the 2030P (and the S-30) is pertinent only if you decide to add a subwoofer.

Chris (WmAx) recommended the 2031P instead of the 2030P because it has the larger woofer (8-3/4") to provide competent full-range bass.

Chris is very knowledgeable, and if he says these speakers (and the Infinity Primus P252) are more accurate, it is a safe bet that they are. We like to think that the most accurate reproduction of the source is best.
On the other hand, if you have listened to several speakers and are confident the Sony speakers are right for your own ears, no one can argue that. Our main concern is that down the road you will hear "better" speakers and regret buying the Sony's.

Here is a comparison of the Behringer 2030P (which is similar to the 2031 except for the size of the woofer) to other speakers, in case you are interested:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/budget-bookshelf-shootout-2009

Cheers,
Kurt

PS: On the KLH's, I don't know the details of who owned the rights to the name when. I only know that in the mid '70's they represented good value across their entire product line.
In later years, I have heard KLH's that were very good (considering price) and others that were not-so-good! A friend bought a pair of KLH's which were discounted to $20/pr at BB for use as a garage speaker. After he listened to them, he just threw them in the trash can. They were that bad!

 

[yepimonfire]

within a 250 budget range the sony's sounded best, havent had the chance to listen to any infinitys at that price. i honestly dont have any clue as to why you think they are so bad, they are good, especially for the price, i wanted a speaker that could produce full bass, and high clear treble, without compromising on midrange, these can do that. they can go very loud without distortion as well. my issue with 2 way bookshelfs with huge woofers is they seem to lack good mids. ive also been to quite a few symphonys in the past, while i dont regularly listen to that type of music, i know it is a good reference music because it is un-amplified. they seemed to reproduce it quite well.

 

[bandphan]

within a 250 budget range the sony's sounded best, havent had the chance to listen to any infinitys at that price. i honestly dont have any clue as to why you think they are so bad, they are good, especially for the price, i wanted a speaker that could produce full bass, and high clear treble, without compromising on midrange, these can do that. they can go very loud without distortion as well. my issue with 2 way bookshelfs with huge woofers is they seem to lack good mids.

Where do you live?

 

[yepimonfire]

massachusetts

 

[bandphan]

You ought to look for used speakers like these TL speakers. Very solid low output and a coaxial mounted tweeter. For $60 and if you could get them for $100 or under shipped, you would satisfy a few of your needs.

 

[bandphan]

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/ele/1610203134.html

http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/ele/1606935115.html

http://boston.craigslist.org/sob/ele/1602263329.html

on and on and on

 

[JerryLove]

Surface area does not have anything to with it. Fs and Qts everything. Adding drivers does not increase bass extension only power handling.

"nothing to do with it" sounds like hyperbole. Where are my 2" sub-woofers?

I've no doubt it's more completx than I've stated (in fact, I knew that going in), and yes SPL factors in (my 2" woofers are in headphones), but I don't think saying that size is irrellevent is accurate either.

OTOH, size is the *only* trait offered.

 

[yepimonfire]

it has to do with the mount of air your trying to move just like you may be able to use a 10" driver for bass in your home, it would be useless in a concert system applied outdoors.

 

[WmAx]

it has to do with the mount of air your trying to move just like you may be able to use a 10" driver for bass in your home, it would be useless in a concert system applied outdoors.

Well, not exactly. Horn loaded 10" subs using high quality drivers can produce plenty of SPL for outdoor concerts.

-Chris

 

[yepimonfire]

but the horns increase the amount of air that can be moved.

 

[TLS Guy]

but the horns increase the amount of air that can be moved.

Only in a sealed system, open baffle or IB is the loudspeaker cone radiating the bass. A cone radiating the LF is actually the least efficient way of going about it. Loudspeaker cones couple poorly to air. In all other loading there is acoustic transformation going on. What I mean by this is that there is transformation from pressure to displacement. This is most efficient in the horn.

In a ported enclosure the lowest frequencies radiate from the port, not the speaker cone. In fact at box tuning the speaker cone virtually stops still, and then decouples below that and stops being an effective radiator.

You seem to have no concept of how a speaker actually works. Speaker size per se does not enter into low frequency extension. There are plenty of 15 and 18 inch drivers that will not play a note below 60 Hz. This is common in high powered pro drivers. The reason they have to produce spl and have large high flux density magnets. There is an inverse relationship between flux density and low frequency extension. Also they have to be robust and so compliance is usually on the low end.

So yes, there are plenty of 5" drivers that have a lower bass extension than some 15" woofers.