Signing Off...

[slipperybidness]

Been busy all day, but funny you mentioned that. As it turned out, the Amazon cables helped but only conditionally. I got to playing a video game Saturday night and the noise came back full force. Again bad enough to hear at my seating position. Out of frustration I went back to the cheater power cable. The amp is grounded via the RCA cables going to the PC (verified with my multimeter), so it's electrically safe as long as I remember to turn off, unplug and disconnect things in the right order.

Essentially the amp is reproducing EMI and RF noise from the computer itself. That noise is traveling on the - wire of the cables while the music is traveling on the + wire. High CPU usage, high GPU usage (hence when I fired up a game) are creating this whine, and I suspect this house we moved into has crap electrical wiring which is leading to ground issues. I'll be researching this further and trying to find a solution that doesn't involve pulling ground pins out of power cables.

Do you have optical out or HDMI audio out from the mobo?

Use that instead. Otherwise, even a cheap sound card with optical output will likely get you around the situation.

This is a common issue. The easy solution is to get the audio signal outside of the computer chassis in the digital domain, then do the DAC. Computer chassis is a terrible place for an analog signal!

Also, consider adding a GFCI, like one of those devices that you should be using with tools outdoors.

 

[panteragstk]

Do you have optical out or HDMI audio out from the mobo?

Use that instead. Otherwise, even a cheap sound card with optical output will likely get you around the situation.

This is a common issue. The easy solution is to get the audio signal outside of the computer chassis in the digital domain, then do the DAC. Computer chassis is a terrible place for an analog signal!

Also, consider adding a GFCI, like one of those devices that you should be using with tools outdoors.

This. SO much. Analog out from an internal sound card just isn't the way to do it anymore. I use HDMI/Display Port whenever possible. Especially since Windows will pretty much to real time PCM encoding unless the source is set to pass-through. I use foobar2000 and have great results using their plugins.

I've also got a USB DAC/Amp for my desktop speakers that works very well. I did have an old school Creative/Cambridge Soundworks analog 4 channel surround speaker system that I used for almost 20 years. That thing was excellent until I got TONS of RF interference from inside my PC chassis. That or it was going out due to age.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

The Xonar (not cheap by any means, trust me) has a digital out (coaxial i think). So I should run that to an external DAC and then to the amp? Just checking to be sure. I do have an isolator on order but if that fails me it’s helpful to know what to try next.

It’s a no-go on the GFCI outlet. I know I won’t get it approved through the rental agency, and witht he age of this house I don’t know if it has aluminum wiring like the one we just sold. If you’ve never tried to fit a GFCI outlet plus three Alumiconn connectors into a single gang box, you haven’t lived. I did that once, and there’s nothing that could compel me to go there again.

 

[slipperybidness]

The Xonar (not cheap by any means, trust me) has a digital out (coaxial i think). So I should run that to an external DAC and then to the amp? Just checking to be sure. I do have an isolator on order but if that fails me it’s helpful to know what to try next.

It’s a no-go on the GFCI outlet. I know I won’t get it approved through the rental agency, and witht he age of this house I don’t know if it has aluminum wiring like the one we just sold. If you’ve never tried to fit a GFCI outlet plus three Alumiconn connectors into a single gang box, you haven’t lived. I did that once, and there’s nothing that could compel me to go there again.

Yes, try the optical output on your Xonar! Almost certainly this will resolve your noise issue. If not, then I think it gives you enough evidence to know for certain that the problem is not due to the PC, and you need to keep looking. When you use the optical out, you bypass the fancy DAC that you payed for in the Xonar, but if that kills the noise then the problem is resolved.

You misunderstood my statement about the GFCI.

I'm talking about using one of these, if you did the ground lift, this device may add a little safety back to your setup.
https://www.amazon.com/3-Outlet-Outdoor-Extension-Watts-Wire/dp/B01N6AEEIK/ref=sr_1_18_sspa?keywords=gfci+for+tools&qid=1571225677&sr=8-18-spons&psc=1&smid=A3PLDRHEGFPMID&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzUzVKSlVBTzE5V0FVJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjIxNDE3MVMxUkU1TEZLUFdEWiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMjQ5NDM4Q1NHWEQzSFNCMzU0JndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfbXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

 

[Kvn_Walker]

I guess I'm so old school that I didn't know how passe sound cards have become. Now I'm looking at DAC's whereas a few weeks ago I was looking at amps. So far the Cambridge DacMagic 100 looks the most like what I'd want.

Gives me 3 different combinations to try: sound card coax + DAC, computer USB + DAC, and sound card RCA + isomax. May the best (or least noisy) sound win!

At least whatever I don't keep will be easy to resell...

 

[panteragstk]

I guess I'm so old school that I didn't know how passe sound cards have become. Now I'm looking at DAC's whereas a few weeks ago I was looking at amps. So far the Cambridge DacMagic 100 looks the most like what I'd want.

Gives me 3 different combinations to try: sound card coax + DAC, computer USB + DAC, and sound card RCA + isomax. May the best (or least noisy) sound win!

At least whatever I don't keep will be easy to resell...

In all honesty, the days of pci/pci-e internal sound cards is pretty much over. There just isn't a point anymore. Most if not all motherboards now come with at least optical out and HDMI/DVI/DP. That eliminates the need for any DAC unless you aren't plugging directly into a receiver (I'm not).

Modern PCs are MUCH easier to deal with when it comes to audio now that all video cards can pass through pretty much any type of audio. USB DACs are nice and simple too.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

Soon as I get home I will check my motherboard but I don't recall it having onboard digital. USB should be the same anyway right? All 1's and 0's?

 

[panteragstk]

Soon as I get home I will check my motherboard but I don't recall it having onboard digital. USB should be the same anyway right? All 1's and 0's?

The only thing you may run into, depending on the age of your board, is that a DAC will require at least USB 2.0. Maybe 3.0, but I doubt it. The only way you'd run into issues is if your hardware is quite old.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

It's circa 2016 so it has USB 2 and 3 ports. Geez we move here and suddenly I run into problems I never knew I had! Always something messing up!

 

[panteragstk]

It's circa 2016 so it has USB 2 and 3 ports. Geez we move here and suddenly I run into problems I never knew I had! Always something messing up!

Gotta love it. You're good for whatever. Let us know what you end up with.

 

[slipperybidness]

Soon as I get home I will check my motherboard but I don't recall it having onboard digital. USB should be the same anyway right? All 1's and 0's?

Are you running an AVR? Or a pre/pro? Does it have HDMI inputs, Digi Coax, or Optical Inputs?

What I'm getting at--Does your AVR or pre-pro already have a built in DAC???

If it does, just use that, don't bother with the external dedicated DAC.

In theory, yes, USB is fine. Personally, I have had so many issues with USB over the years, that I avoid USB when I have other options available. I have used my external DAC with USB connections here and there out of convenience and never had a problem in that application, but when I have other options, I will always choose the other options and USB will be my last choice.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

Direct to 2 channel amp from the sound card. I just control volume from within Windows.

 

[panteragstk]

Direct to 2 channel amp from the sound card. I just control volume from within Windows.

That makes sense then. They make cheap USB DACs, but I've never used one. Heard good things though. Amazon has a ton of them.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

Looked up the Asus Z97 motherboard manual and it turns out I have a SPDIF header on the motherboard. Just ordered a bracket and coax cable off Amazon. Tempted to get another DAC just to compare against the Cambridge...

 

[Alex2507]

Tempted to get another DAC

Ooh ... a rabbit hole.

Let's go in ...

 

[KenM10759]

Audioquest Dragonfly. There's 3 different levels, all at pretty reasonable.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

Ooh ... a rabbit hole.

Let's go in ...

Why not, right? I've been doing computer audio one way since the Soundblaster 16, so this is uncharted ground for me! May as well have a little bit of fun with it.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

So this escalated quickly... TMR had a Parasound New Classic 2250 for only $499 on their site. 9/10 mint condition. They never listed it on eBay or Audiogon.

Note that I said "had" ...

It does have 2 important features over the HCA that led me to pull the trigger. The standby mode/auto turn-on was a great feature of my Outlaws that I missed. And, it has a signal ground lift switch (just... in... case...). I won't come close to using all that juice while we're in a rental house, but plan for the future, right?

Also ordered a JDS Labs El DAC to compare with the Cambridge. Read a lot of nice things about it, and it's a US company with reasonable pricing. The free custom engraving is a great touch! I opted for an iconic scene from the best movie I've ever experienced:

I can't wait to see how it comes out.

So in summary, the following will be up for sale soon as I get sorted out:

ASUS Xonar STX Essence sound card (V1)
1 DAC (either JDS EL DAC or Cambridge DacMagic, depending on what I choose)
Parasound HCA 1200II amp, mostly identical to HCA-1500 (7/10 cosmetic)
1 Outlaw 2200 monoblock (7 or 8 /10 cosmetic)
Jensen Isomax CI-2RR isolation transformer
Carver TFM 55x (3/10 cosmetic, very noisy and needs servicing)


If anyone is interested with any of this before I list it on eBay, hit me up.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

I can't even make this sh!t up. I'm not even batting 40% on ebay purchases. On a day when I sent back the Adcom that got beat up in shipping, I get what I thought was the stereo Jensen transformer. Joke's on me.

Ironic that the "1" was even highlighted and circled, considering I paid for the CI-2RR. Ugh. My head hurts.

 

[KenM10759]

Yeah, that's a bad seller right there.

What I don't understand is the whole working on a computer thing and standalone DAC. You don't mention needing it for anything else, so do you? My point is that with so many choices in streaming amps, separate streaming devices (that use little power and run silently), why go this path?