Sierra 1 + 2 x Rythmik Subs, F12 SE

[jp_over]

I did a few searches on this subject (towers versus bookshelves with subs) but decided to ask for my own thread for a change.

I'm considering as of late rather than the choices in my signature, of going with a 3.2 system (I only want the center for dialogue). Can't really factor room size since we move every few years, but I like the idea of smaller speakers (less likely that the movers will destroy / easier to pack). Overall goal is supreme vocal clarity for TV / news but I want a great deal of accuracy for music as well. Definitely not a fan of "bright" sounding speakers. I also like the idea of getting better low end response through using subs rather than spending a small fortune on towers that go low enough (perhaps ~35 hz).

I've narrowed my choice down to the Sierra 1 (L, R, and C) crossed over at 60hz (through the receiver) and 2 x Rythmik subs (F12, S3).

Any words of wisdom on how easy or difficult it will be to get these to “match” for music listening? Anyone who owns a set like this I'd love to hear your impressions.

The Behringer 2030's I own are great by the way (recommended through this forum – of course, I’d like grill covers and why not upgrade while I’m at it!). Thanks for any input!

 

[rnatalli]

That setup should sound fabulous. Even though the Sierra 1's have great bass output, I would cross them a little higher.

 

[Warpdrv]

That will be a fantastic setup, just make sure the speakers come with the Nrt update....

 

[sholling]

I agree with the others that should sound great and the NrT upgrade takes the Sierra-1s to a whole new level.

 

[Warpdrv]

yeah, I wasn't over the top thrilled with the lack of detailed highs without the Nrt....

 

[jp_over]

Thanks for the replies; I'll be sure to get the Nrt tweeter when I purchase.

Sholling, where are yours crossed over at?

 

[Warpdrv]

Doesn't matter what his are crossed over at - his room is not your room, and the room is generally what should be deciding what freq you xover at...

That usually takes some effort on your part to chart the response of your speakers in your room with an spl meter and graph at the least...


I have big stupid - expensive - tower speakers, that play down to the 30's but I still cross at 120hz, because I can...
Its because I have some super amazing subs, all around the room that allows me that luxury without having localization problems...

 

[sholling]

yeah, I wasn't over the top thrilled with the lack of detailed highs without the Nrt....

The level of detail going from S-520s to standard Sierra-1 was a huge step up but well below my Salks. The NrT upgrade takes the Sierra-1 to a whole new level with HF extension well beyond human hearing (30khz). I'm really curious how the new tower will sound (same NrT tweeter) when the design is finished because the goal was to go head to head with the Song Tower Qwt. When I listened to the prototypes they were still a work in progress and for some reason sounded best when seated on the floor. But that was late November and the design was not quite finished.

Sholling, where are yours crossed over at?

Mine are wall mounted so I'm using the optional port plugs and I'm following Dave F's advice and crossing them over at 60hz. Using the port plugs they're supposed to play flat down to 60hz and then roll-off at 12db/octave starting at 60hz. I usually like to leave a 10-20hz cushion between a speaker's rated bass extension and the crossover and had planned to crossover higher (80hz) but his advice panned out and they sound great.

 

[cschang]

I own Sierra-1's (non-NrT for now) and a Rythmik F15.

Previously, I had a Hsu VTF-3.3. With the Hsu, I crossed at 60hz because I felt the bass quality of the Sierras exceeded the Hsu above that point, and I could not get great integration because of it. Even crossed at 60hz, I could slightly discern with sweeps the change in output from the Sierras to the Hsu. The Hsu had always been one of my gauges in bass quality.

With the Rythmik, I now cross at 80hz and hear no differences in quality when doing sweeps. The integration is great.

 

[KEW]

I think that is an outstanding system.
However, you might want to consider getting the Rythmik F12G
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12G.html

I say this because when I called Rythmik and asked about their absolute best set-up for music he (the owner - forget his name) suggested a pair or F12G's despite their lower cost (which always impresses me about the integrity of a salesman - or owner in this case).
When I spoke with him, Rythmik was just firming up their agreement with Ascend (and the F12G is not sold via Ascend). I'm not sure if politics may now be at play - it may put him in an awkward position to recommend the F12G's.
You might want to at least give Rythmik a call and see what they say - can't hurt!

The impression I have is that the Rythmik subs (any of them) are excellent for audiophile subs for music (where you are looking for articulation more than output and extension). However, if I was in your shoes, I would wait 2-6 weeks for the upcoming Audioholics review of the Rythmik FV15HP to make sure comments about the larger Rythmik servo sub are in line with your expectations.

Edit: I should clarify that the differences between the F12SE and F12G were never presented by Rythmik as being substantial, just that the F12G was slightly preferred for music and the F12 or F12SE slightly preferred for HT.

 

[cschang]

The F12G has slightly better transient response due to it's lighter paper cone, but does not play as deep and does not have quite the SPL capability as the aluminum cone F12/F12SE.

The F12G driver was developed for/by GR Research, so I believe some royalties are involved, and might be why(at least in part) Ascend can not sell it.

 

[jp_over]

I think that is an outstanding system.
However, you might want to consider getting the Rythmik F12G
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12G.html

I say this because when I called Rythmik and asked about their absolute best set-up for music he (the owner - forget his name) suggested a pair or F12G's despite their lower cost (which always impresses me about the integrity of a salesman - or owner in this case).
When I spoke with him, Rythmik was just firming up their agreement with Ascend (and the F12G is not sold via Ascend). I'm not sure if politics may now be at play - it may put him in an awkward position to recommend the F12G's.
You might want to at least give Rythmik a call and see what they say - can't hurt!

The impression I have is that the Rythmik subs (any of them) are excellent for audiophile subs for music (where you are looking for articulation more than output and extension). However, if I was in your shoes, I would wait 2-6 weeks for the upcoming Audioholics review of the Rythmik FV15HP to make sure comments about the larger Rythmik servo sub are in line with your expectations.

Edit: I should clarify that the differences between the F12SE and F12G were never presented by Rythmik as being substantial, just that the F12G was slightly preferred for music and the F12 or F12SE slightly preferred for HT.

Thanks for this info - I seem to recall looking at and calling about the F12G but the Rythmik person I spoke to recommended the F12 (to go with my "planned" Salk Songtowers). Now that I'm considering bookshelves, I'll have to give the F12G another look. I've never been really into the ultra-low effects for movies but have a much greater appreciation for accurate music & TV dialogue.

Also, Sholling, I really like your method of using the port plug and crossing over at 60hz (at least, it's worth a try / test for my room). Any thoughts on your songtowers and sierras now (comparatively speaking) that you have the new tweeter?

About room size, if you have a living room that opens into a kitchen, to calculate cubic footage (L x W x H) do you include the kitchen or no? If I don't include the kitchen I have 2500 cubic feet whereas if I do I have 6612 (see attached diagram)!

Thanks!

 

[sholling]

Any thoughts on your songtowers and sierras now (comparatively speaking) that you have the new tweeter?

I have not tried them side by side but I cross my STs over at 70hz. It may or may not be because mine are front ported but they really don't like two of my bass heavy CDs (even crossed at 50hz) and I don't want to damage my ST's woofers. Anyway back to tweeters I don't know how the NrTs compare to ST QWT because I have ribbons and have not played them side by side.

Once the Ascend towers are perfected it should be an interesting match up. The design goal was to top the ST QWT in pretty much every way and I'm as curious as you are about how close they will come to that.

 

[darien87]

I think that is an outstanding system.
However, you might want to consider getting the Rythmik F12G
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12G.html

I say this because when I called Rythmik and asked about their absolute best set-up for music he (the owner - forget his name) suggested a pair or F12G's despite their lower cost (which always impresses me about the integrity of a salesman - or owner in this case).

The owner's first name is Brian. I believe his last name is Ding. Great guy, very friendly and knowledgable. I called him quite a few times when I was building my 12" cabinet.

 

[darien87]

About room size, if you have a living room that opens into a kitchen, to calculate cubic footage (L x W x H) do you include the kitchen or no? If I don't include the kitchen I have 2500 cubic feet whereas if I do I have 6612 (see attached diagram)!

If the rooms aren't sealed off from each other then you have to include the kitchen as that is more air that the sub will have to move.