Should I Bi-Amp?

[FSUguy]

I have almost my whole system from Klipsch. RC-52, RS-42, RW-12D, and just waiting to get me RF-82s in. All this will be paired with my Yamaha RX-V1800.

Would ya'll recommend bi-amping the RF-82s since I will only be running a 5.1 setup and could use the the remaining 2 channels on the 7.1 Yammy to bi-amp? Any sounds quality difference?

Thanks

 

[bandphan]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40452&highlight=bi-amp

there are probably a few threads on this, some recently.......Try a search

 

[Nomo]

I have almost my whole system from Klipsch. RC-52, RS-42, RW-12D, and just waiting to get me RF-82s in. All this will be paired with my Yamaha RX-V1800.

Would ya'll recommend bi-amping the RF-82s since I will only be running a 5.1 setup and could use the the remaining 2 channels on the 7.1 Yammy to bi-amp? Any sounds quality difference?

Thanks

Those speakers are pretty efficient so it may not make a bit of difference, but I see no harm in giving it a try. All it will cost you is some extra speaker wire.
If you do, report back with your findings.
Then every one can argue about whether it made a difference or if you just thought it did.
It'll be fun!

 

[Joe Schmoe]

If the speakers are not getting enough power, biamping could help. If they are getting enough power, it will not make any difference at all.

 

[Davemcc]

If the speakers are not getting enough power, biamping could help. If they are getting enough power, it will not make any difference at all.

Wow, could it be stated any simpler than that?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The question is, how do you know if the speakers are getting enough power?

If the speakers sound great, then it's getting enough power.

The next question is, how many of us have bi-amped our speakers at one time or another?

 

[Davemcc]

The next question is, how many of us have bi-amped our speakers at one time or another?

I have never found a superfluous set of binding posts on any speaker I've owned.

 

[fmw]

The answer to the OP is that is doesn't matter. It can't hurt anything and it can't help anything. The limiting factor in a receiver is the power supply, not the number of amplifiers so connecting more amps driven from the same power supply won't actually increase the power. If it makes you happy, knock your socks off. Like I said, it can't hurt anything.

 

[itschris]

I had biamped once using my Sunfire amps... I can honestly I noticed no difference. There's a cool factor however that needs to be considered

 

[OttoMatic]

The limiting factor in a receiver is the power supply, not the number of amplifiers

That's not necessarily true in all cases, is it?

Please explain why the power supply is always the limiting factor. Why wouldn't the output stages of the particular amplifier channel have a limit on it?

Thanks!

 

[fmw]

That's not necessarily true in all cases, is it?

Please explain why the power supply is always the limiting factor. Why wouldn't the output stages of the particular amplifier channel have a limit on it?

Thanks!

Yes, the individual amps would also have limits but, in a typical receiver, those limits would be beyond the capacity of the power supply to provide current if you are talking about the difference between using 2 or 4 amplifiers to draw the current.

 

[GlocksRock]

when you utilize 7 channels vs. 5 channels on that receiver, you pretty much cut the power to each channel in half. Soundandvision magazine tested that receiver and found that it put out around 103 watts RMS 5 channels driven, and only 55 watts per channel with all 7 channels driven, so you may not really benefit at all by bi-amping the fronts using your receiver. If you had a separate amp, it may be a different story, I would probably not bi-amp using the receiver only if it were me. Those speakers are plenty efficient, so you should be able to get all the volume you need out of them unless your room is really large, or you like to listen at ear bleeding levels.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/receivers/2708/test-bench-yamaha-rx-v1800-av-receiver.html

 

[rnatalli]

I bi-amped my mains simply because I had wire and two amp channels to spare. I can't say I've noticed any difference. But it doesn't hurt either.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Wow, could it be stated any simpler than that?

Yes. Yes and no

 

[OttoMatic]

Yes, the individual amps would also have limits but, in a typical receiver, those limits would be beyond the capacity of the power supply to provide current if you are talking about the difference between using 2 or 4 amplifiers to draw the current.

This may be true for some receivers, but I don't think you can state it for all receivers, FWIW. There is absolutely no technical reason that I see that would force the power supply to always be the limiting factor.

Don't get me wrong, though. I don't think it's going to make a huge improvement (if any), but technically, it could be possible to get more power, depending on the amplifier sections and power supply design of the receiver (or in general, any amplifier with more than one channel). Am I misunderstanding something?

 

[Thaedium]

I'm currently doing the same thing with my Studio 100's and my Pioneer VSX-94TXH. Thats mostly because I lost my binding post straps for the Studio's and I had the extra wire. Frankly, right now I find it more of an inconvience then anything else because I'm considering buying a 2 year old Bryston 4BSST from a friend of mine, and its not setup with extra binding posts to bi-wire. Need to place an order for some new binding post straps, such a pain.

 

[PENG]

This may be true for some receivers, but I don't think you can state it for all receivers, FWIW. There is absolutely no technical reason that I see that would force the power supply to always be the limiting factor.

Don't get me wrong, though. I don't think it's going to make a huge improvement (if any), but technically, it could be possible to get more power, depending on the amplifier sections and power supply design of the receiver (or in general, any amplifier with more than one channel). Am I misunderstanding something?

I agree with you. If you take a look of the HT mag. or S&V mag. lab results, HK models such as the AVR330 and 630 seemed to be more amp limited but the Yamaha RX-V657, 659, Denon AVR3805 seemed to be more power supply limited. The HK models put out 5,7 channel outputs closer to their 1,2 channel outputs while the Yamaha/Denon models 1,2 channel outputs are much higher than their 5,7 channel outputs. Note that the Yamaha/Denon model's 5 channel driven numbers are still closed to or slightly higher than the comparable (price wise) HK models but their 1,2 channels outputs are much higher, hence P/S limited as fmw said.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I had biamped once using my Sunfire amps... I can honestly I noticed no difference. There's a cool factor however that needs to be considered

I agree, brother. The only difference I've noticed is the cool factor.

But.......here's an interesting thought:

All the powered speakers (Def Tech BP7006-7000, CLR2300-3000, BPVX/P, AV123 Rockets, Aperion 533-PT, etc.) are being BI-AMPED even when you use just one external amp (external amp powers tweeters & midrange, internal amp powers sub). So how do we know if they sound better or not being bi-amped vs. mono-amped?

Another example is the NHT Classic Four tower speaker. It has a built-in subwoofer driver (tweeter, midrange, subwoofer), except it does not have a built-in amplifier for the subwoofer. From what I've heard, if you use the optional 200 watts NHT mono amp to power the subwoofer driver (bi-amp), the sound is a lot better - smoother midrange and a lot better bass.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

when you utilize 7 channels vs. 5 channels on that receiver, you pretty much cut the power to each channel in half. Soundandvision magazine tested that receiver and found that it put out around 103 watts RMS 5 channels driven, and only 55 watts per channel with all 7 channels driven, so you may not really benefit at all by bi-amping the fronts using your receiver. If you had a separate amp, it may be a different story, I would probably not bi-amp using the receiver only if it were me. Those speakers are plenty efficient, so you should be able to get all the volume you need out of them unless your room is really large, or you like to listen at ear bleeding levels.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/receivers/2708/test-bench-yamaha-rx-v1800-av-receiver.html

Hey, GlocksRock, I noticed you haven't changed your signature yet to include the CLR3000.***hee***hee

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I agree with you. If you take a look of the HT mag. or S&V mag. lab results, HK models such as the AVR330 and 630 seemed to be more amp limited but the Yamaha RX-V657, 659, Denon AVR3805 seemed to be more power supply limited. The HK models put out 5,7 channel outputs closer to their 1,2 channel outputs while the Yamaha/Denon models 1,2 channel outputs are much higher than their 5,7 channel outputs. Note that the Yamaha/Denon model's 5 channel driven numbers are still closed to or slightly higher than the comparable (price wise) HK models but their 1,2 channels outputs are much higher, hence P/S limited as fmw said.

Yeah, that's because Harmon and NAD (& some others I forget at the moment) are probably the only two companies who spec with all channels driven. Everyone else spec with 1 ch driven---or maybe 2.

It's a good thing most of us use separate amps.

I mean not that we need to, but we just do.