Should HT Advice Start with the Center Speaker? (Discussion)

[MDK210]

In HT you have two camps; phantom center and center purist (regardless of style). Additionally, some believe in matching brands/series while others feel you can use alternative brands/series. One thing I've often seen over the years is that if you are pro center then almost everyone that is educated in speakers recommends to get the best one you can afford since the majority of HT can and often does run though it with most classifying it as the "anchor" of a HT system. Makes sense so far...

However, if this the case then why is HT audio advice still focused on getting the biggest left and rights (LR)? This is more inline with the thought process of 2-ch systems and the idea that a proper 2-ch setup can stereo image the center (aka phantom) which is beneficial for both music and movies. Manufacturers appear to indirectly support this phantom format since they often have inferior center speakers compared to their LR counterparts in the same series especially at the beginning of HT. Factor in articles/videos from sources such as Audioholics that suggest a center MTM configuration is the lesser of evils if you need to go with a horizontal center but the optimal setup would be to have a duplicate LR used as a C which only adds to the confusion for beginners. Some manufacturers such as Ohm sell vertical style center channels but due to the nature of HT and requirement of having a center as close to the TV as possible it's hardly done properly either due to personnel, financial, or size constraints. Companies saw this and created horizontal speakers giving the illusion this was the ONLY way to have a center channel design but it feels as if they never took it seriously and more of an afterthought especially early on in HT.

With all this data out there why is it almost anytime we discuss HT it's LR and Subwoofers? I can understand surrounds given the role they play, or lack thereof, and subwoofers are always fun to talk about albeit people have them placed incorrectly more often than not yet the center is overshadowed by the LR discussion. If the center is as truly important as HT purist claim and document it is such then why is the advice given never to spend the most on a center and find LR's to match it? Call any dealer and ask for a HT setup and they probably sell you $10K speakers with a $100 center channel as if they can impress you with the LR then it all must sound amazing right? So, if you are pro center do you have the most expensive center your brand makes? If you pro phantom center does your brand LR even make a quality center?

 

[Gmoney]

Nope.

 

[ryanosaur]

I know it has been brought up here many times that the 2-way MTM horizontal center is a poor choice, which in that specific scenario running Phantom could be preferable.
Personally, I think centers are more necessary and yes, they should match as closely as possible the voicing (at least) of the Mains. In my posts, I usually refer to the Front 3, not just Mains.

Now, I do agree that the approach to talking about the Front Stage is important, and that the options for how to set up your Front 3 properly need more focus. I like the idea of either horizontal 3-way Centers with a W/TM/W alignment, or matching Tower or Standmount of the set one is buying. Likewise, if one is keen enough to audition critically, finding similarly voiced speakers that may not be matching is perfectly fine, too.
I also agree that in many instances, due to the unfortunate focus on size constraints and shoehorning a Center where it doesn't fit, many manufacturers do not design a Center Speaker that can truly match the dynamics of the speakers likely to be used as Mains, even if using a Standmount for example (cabinet size is disproportionately small, woofers can be 1-2" smaller, poor port placement, etc.).

A lot of this is seemingly up to the consumer to decide where their values lie, and then shop accordingly (which also entails educating themselves appropriately). This is why I joined the Forum here.

In my own system, I use 3-way speaker all around my 5 main Channels. My Center and Surrounds are the same, and my Center is upright. My towers use different Tweeters, but are the same brand Tweeter. The Mids are completely different, while the Woofers are again the same Brand as each other. My Rears are currently 2-ways using the same Tweeters as my Center and Surrounds.
This is an outlier scenario: I fully understand my own unique reasons and do not expect others to adhere to my idiosyncrasies.
However, I do preach what I practice and encourage those I engage with to think outside the box and look at options that will work better for their tastes than just buying what the manufacturer is slinging.

 

[TankTop5]

I think Revel was listening, have you see their new performa BE center? $4,500 because if you’re going to do it right then really do it right

 

[lovinthehd]

I wouldn't start with the center as my HT systems aren't just about dialog.

 

[TankTop5]

I wouldn't start with the center as my HT systems aren't just about dialog.

I’m really contemplating finding a 3rd Special 40 for my center. Moving soon and I have no clue where I’m landing yet so I need to wait. Actually a 5 channel S40 setup I think would be amazeballs for multi channel music.

 

[Pogre]

I always say focus on the front 3. Yes, the center is the anchor for dialogue, but front left and right see a lot of action too and it's best to have them match the center.

 

[Pogre]

As a matter of fact, I addressed this very thing yesterday!

New HT in Basement

New here guys and would appreciate a little advice on a new build. I am almost complete on the framing of my basement, which means electric and speaker wire is next, so I’m trying to plan. Plan so far: SVS Prime towers (on the way already) SVS Ultra for center RSLs in ceiling for Atmos Denon...

forums.audioholics.com

Post #6
"For strictly home theater I would say the advice you got is sound, beefing up your center channel and subwoofage. If you were listening to music also that's where I'd lean on you a little harder for the Pinnacles. Home theater? You're pretty set with Prime towers."

Ha

 

[shadyJ]

To answer the title question, the answer is YES, the speaker system that should be chosen should start with the center! The center speaker is the most important speaker in a surround sound system. It is the speaker that should be the least compromised. As a matter of fact, I have been pushing Gene to do a video on this for some time now. For surround sound systems, the speaker system you get should be dictated by the center channel, not the left/right fronts. If you want something that can do two-channel music well too, then yes, do not skimp on the left/right fronts, obviously. However, if your primary audio source is surround sound movies, shop for speaker systems by the center speaker first and foremost!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I wouldn't start with the center as my HT systems aren't just about dialog.

Same here. There’s an awful lot of music in soundtracks. Lots of sound effects not tied to the CC either.
I think a CC is imperative, especially if you have any seating off axis.

 

[lovinthehd]

Same here. There’s an awful lot of music in soundtracks. Lots of sound effects not tied to the CC either.
I think a CC is imperative, especially if you have any seating off axis.

Absolutely agree, I prefer having a center. I just don't make it my starting point. I have one setup with the same speaker across the front, too (which would be my goal if anything). I just got a larger 3 way center (Infinity 263RC) to try with my JBL 590s instead of the "matching" 520C (which does match in compression driver, but not nearly in midwoof size). So far no night and day difference or anything, it seems just as competent so far. I do need to build a little riser for it, tho, like I did for the 520 (just to raise it up a bit, it's a short stand) before I try it another system....it might even need a second round later with the JBLs after going back to the 520 for a while. I am not listening at reference levels, tho, either. Haven't even tried to get it silly loud with something yet.

 

[Kingnoob]

I think Revel was listening, have you see their new performa BE center? $4,500 because if you’re going to do it right then really do it right
View attachment 44657

Gotta be pretty wealthy to justify that purchase, costs more then my whole system... and some .
There are much cheaper centers that can match that $4500 one .
Not doubt it probably sounds spectacular!!!
Some centers are too small https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwirr5TO8e3uAhUGpLMKHQI-D3AYABAPGgJxbg&ae=2&sig=AOD64_10TPnps2qwLekvMwmffE4lyCuYyQ&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwjd8ovO8e3uAhUbHs0KHYJ1DwIQwg96BAgCEF8&adurl=