Should Business Ethics Factor into What AV Companies You Purchase From?

Should the Business Ethics of AV Companies Influence Your Purchasing Decisions?

  • Yes. Let's hold them accountable to their beliefs or practices?

    Votes: 14 77.8%
  • No. Stay out of the politics and purchase what you like.

    Votes: 4 22.2%
  • Don't care. I buy second hand AV products.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    18
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
Huh. Mebbe I should start reading these contentious steam vent threads... :p
If you want. I always find myself asking "why?" after about 10 posts... then I stop following it, but find myself still checking in periodically, only to beat my head against the nearest doorframe because really, most of what is said is drivel, serving only to retard intellectual growth. Rarely have I seen a cogent argument with well thought out purpose encouraging deeper thought or a little soul searching in response.

Oh look... that's about 10 posts, now, since I jumped in.
Bye! :D
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Samurai
If you want. I always find myself asking "why?" after about 10 posts... then I stop following it, but find myself still checking in periodically, only to beat my head against the nearest doorframe because really, most of what is said is drivel, serving only to retard intellectual growth. Rarely have I seen a cogent argument with well thought out purpose encouraging deeper thought or a little soul searching in response.

Oh look... that's about 10 posts, now, since I jumped in.
Bye! :D
Because you can't resist despite your valiant attempts? :D
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
If you want. I always find myself asking "why?" after about 10 posts... then I stop following it, but find myself still checking in periodically, only to beat my head against the nearest doorframe because really, most of what is said is drivel, serving only to retard intellectual growth. Rarely have I seen a cogent argument with well thought out purpose encouraging deeper thought or a little soul searching in response.

Oh look... that's about 10 posts, now, since I jumped in.
Bye! :D
I don’t jump in (well except to bash Def Tech subs recently… ), but I have the same problem of unfollowing but still coming back and watching the train wrecks. LOL :)
 
Big-Q

Big-Q

Audioholic Intern
I know this is an editorial, but man, you have been duped. Turn off the CNN and listen to some music.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I know this is an editorial, but man, you have been duped. Turn off the CNN and listen to some music.
Agree about the music part, the CNN part....did Thed get some free publicity from them or something?

("Would you buy ungodly expensive audiophile cables from somebody that goes full Trump package to publicly make fun of people with autism and COVID-19 on Facebook? ")
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
I just found it strange someone would read it as left leaning while I'm reading the opposite. I don't see where or why adultery would factor into this, and sounds like something a theist would fuss over. The right tend to be the bible thumpers, that's all I'm saying. In general I stay out of the political crap.
So, adultery can't be seen as a character flaw by someone who isn't religious? That implies that non-religious people don't see bad acts as a problem and that's not true. Soulless politicians can tell anyone they're 'devout', but that really comes out in the wash when people see what they do and have done. Plenty of good people who don't go to church or believe and plenty of bad ones who shout from the mountain tops about how in touch with God they are.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
So, adultery can't be seen as a character flaw by someone who isn't religious? That implies that non-religious people don't see bad acts as a problem and that's not true. Soulless politicians can tell anyone they're 'devout', but that really comes out in the wash when people see what they do and have done. Plenty of good people who don't go to church or believe and plenty of bad ones who shout from the mountain tops about how in touch with God they are.
Sure, it can be seen as a character flaw but the word has strong ties to religion and sin. I reject both concepts, and while I might agree that cheating on your spouse is a pretty crappy thing to do it wouldn't affect my purchasing decision.

As far as 'devout' goes... I firmly believe that secular morality derived from the concept of well being is VASTLY superior to theistic morality or divine command theory (look up 'Euthyphro dilemma'). Claiming to be 'devout' just raises an eyebrow and a few questions with me. In fact I'd argue most Christians already base their morals on well being, and are better off and far more moral than the god represented in their bible. They just don't realize it.
It's illegal, now but isn't 'birth control' supposed to prevent pregnancy?
I only asked for clarification. A lot of pro lifers paint folks using it as a form "birth control". I see it as an issue of bodily autonomy. The way you brought it up suggested it's currently a big problem.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
It all comes down to reliability, warranty, customer support, compatibility, functionality, WiFi remote and apps, music streaming capability and cost.

Don’t overspend and don’t search for inaudible specs that make no difference at the end of the day.

Everything else will take care of itself.
 
Z

zimtheinvader

Audiophyte
An entire article on the 'ethics' of companies and zero mention of most of the products being manufactured in China with the Chinese government owning chunks of the manufacturing and their human rights violations? Millions of people in concentration (re-education) camps? Government officials forcibly living in citizens homes to keep an eye on them and make sure they don't say anything against the government. And that is just the tip of the iceberg. Let's compare those offense to the list of the things the companies you avoid do.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Sure, it can be seen as a character flaw but the word has strong ties to religion and sin. I reject both concepts, and while I might agree that cheating on your spouse is a pretty crappy thing to do it wouldn't affect my purchasing decision.

As far as 'devout' goes... I firmly believe that secular morality derived from the concept of well being is VASTLY superior to theistic morality or divine command theory (look up 'Euthyphro dilemma'). Claiming to be 'devout' just raises an eyebrow and a few questions with me. In fact I'd argue most Christians already base their morals on well being, and are better off and far more moral than the god represented in their bible. They just don't realize it.

I only asked for clarification. A lot of pro lifers paint folks using it as a form "birth control". I see it as an issue of bodily autonomy. The way you brought it up suggested it's currently a big problem.
Why does it have to be tied to religion, especially at a time when organized religion is losing membership at a record pace? That said, the trend has come at the same time as increasing rates for some crimes, so people will have to draw their own conclusions and I'm not saying they're actually related- I don't follow any religion and I was raised as a Catholic, but in the case of me and my brother, we were never what anyone would call 'devout'. My dad, OTOH, was raised by someone who came from the place in Poland where the first leader of what had become Poland, was baptised, so there's a very strong Catholic influence there. Most of his brothers and sisters were rediculously religious and in the case of one aunt, she didn't like other religions, even if they were Christian. That's the kind of hypocricy that drove me away. I'm sure some of the morality is still a part of my sense of right & wrong, but I don't lean on religion and I only read about it as a way to learn something. Like how NOT to act, especially as a priest or bishop.

I brought up partial birth because the other poster didn't seem to be aware of it.

Personally, I don't like it- if someone doesn't want to become pregnant, there are many ways to accomplish that. I can definitely see preventing pregnancy in cases of rape and incest, though. However, the potential in the person whose birth is or may be aborted should be considered- many people with great minds and talent were born to rape victims and prostitutes.

One of the reasons I mentioned 'devout' is Biden, who considers himself be that. He might, I don't.

As far as who to buy from, most of a person's bad acts are unseen by almost everyone, so it's not usually possible to say "I won't buy from that company because they did something that was bad", but I see a lot of people bitching about Gates, Bezos and other people whose products are almost ubiquitous, yet they keep buying the company's stuff. Will Bill Gates' cheating and some association with Jeffrey Epstein cause people to stop buying Microsoft? Maybe. What about Apple, with their use of sweat shops? How about Jobs generally being a d!ck?
 
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T

TankTop5

Audioholic General
I want to join in but in skimming through it looks like a dumpster fire.

Anyway, before making a decision like this hopefully you have intimate knowledge and not simply basing a decision on a hit piece you read. Unless it involves children there’s probably more to the story, if it does involve children then take them out back and shoot them in the gut and let em die slow! Everything else, I wasn’t there so I really don’t know and making a judgment is probably virtue signaling so I can feel better about my own life.

Jesus said it best, mess with kids you may as well chain a big rock around your neck and jump off a boat. Everything else we can discuss and forgive.

If you want to judge a perceived improprieties of others your life better be squeaky clean and I doubt anyone wants the press digging through their dumpster!
 
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T

TankTop5

Audioholic General
Why does it have to be tied to religion, especially at a time when organized religion is losing membership at a record pace? That said, the trend has come at the same time as increasing rates for some crimes, so people will have to draw their own conclusions and I'm not saying they're actually related- I don't follow any religion and I was raised as a Catholic, but in the case of me and my brother, we were never what anyone would call 'devout'. My dad, OTOH, was raised by someone who came from the place in Poland where the first leader of what had become Poland, was baptised, so there's a very strong Catholic influence there. Most of his brothers and sisters were rediculously religious and in the case of one aunt, she didn't like other religions, even if they were Christian. That's the kind of hypocricy that drove me away. I'm sure some of the morality is still a part of my sense of right & wrong, but I don't lean on religion and I only read about it as a way to learn something. Like how NOT to act, especially as a priest or bishop.

I brought up partial birth because the other poster didn't seem to be aware of it.

Personally, I don't like it- if someone doesn't want to become pregnant, there are many ways to accomplish that. I can definitely see preventing pregnancy in cases of rape and incest, though. However, the potential in the person whose birth is or may be aborted should be considered- many people with great minds and talent were born to rape victims and prostitutes.

One of the reasons I mentioned 'devout' is Biden, who considers himself be that. He might, I don't.

As far as who to buy from, most of a person's bad acts are unseen by almost everyone, so it's not usually possible to say "I won't buy from that company because they did something that was bad", but I see a lot of people bitching about Gates, Bezos and other people whose products are almost ubiquitous, yet they keep buying the company's stuff. Will Bill Gates' cheating and some association with Jeffrey Epstein cause people to stop buying Microsoft? Maybe. What about Apple, with their use of sweat shops? How about Jobs generally being a d!ck?
Bezos employs 1,298,000 people, he can shoot him self into space all he wants, it’s really none of my business. Out of those 1.3 million employees I wonder how many have fed their kids, bought a home, used medical insurance for their family or just blew money on hifi equipment?
 
diskreet

diskreet

Audioholic
Jesus said it best, mess with kids you may as well chain a big rock around your neck and jump off a boat. Everything else we can discuss and forgive.
Exodus 21:15, Joshua 6:21, 1 Samuel 15:3, 2 Kings 2:23-24, Numbers 31:17-18, and others clearly show god being happy to murder children or tell their followers to murder children.

I agree with the sentiment of what you posted, of course, but the bible itself reads quite pro-child-harm if the children are rude or even just related to someone god doesn't like.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Bezos employs 1,298,000 people, he can shoot him self into space all he wants, it’s really none of my business. Out of those 1.3 million employees I wonder how many have fed their kids, bought a home, used medical insurance for their family or just blew money on hifi equipment?
I saw people dumping on him for saying the Amazon employees paid for his flight and decided to see how much the employees pay in taxes, in total. I did a simple search for the number of employees and the average pay, then used the results to come up with the taxes at 35% for the lower wage workers and 37% for the higher wages, plus FICA for pay up to $109K, which is actually low but it's the average for the company if the highest paid are included. The income tax is over $30Billion and they pump about $13Billion into FICA. Then, there's the property & sales taxes, purchases or larger items like homes, boats, RVs, etc- this says nothing about the profit they generate, but GlassDoor.com has that, IIRC. These numbers include the employees of Blue Origin, too- they're the ones who designed, built and made the flight possible.

Nobody should deny that some innovations came from the design- in that respect, it's like NASA- a lot of money was spent, but we do benefit from it in the long run.

As a custom integrator, I'm not happy about Amazon buying the companies whose products I can use and then, offer better pricing to customers than I can, but if that happens, I buy from them and that keep me from having to lose my ass on the sale. Nobody can match their shipping or easy return policies, either. I know of many cases where there was a problem with a purchase and if the cost to return it is more than the value of the item, they refund the money and tell the customer to keep it, even if the buyer made a mistake. I know someone who bought a love seat- full refund, got to keep it. That's weird but it shows that they take the long view of the money.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Exodus 21:15, Joshua 6:21, 1 Samuel 15:3, 2 Kings 2:23-24, Numbers 31:17-18, and others clearly show god being happy to murder children or tell their followers to murder children.

I agree with the sentiment of what you posted, of course, but the bible itself reads quite pro-child-harm if the children are rude or even just related to someone god doesn't like.
Well, murdering male children and women who have lain with men. it isn't really genocide when you're commanded to keep all the virgins for yourself, right?

Exodus 21 also lays out all of the rules for running your slave trade up to and including where to buy them, who to buy them from, how to beat them and avoid punishment for it and sets special rules for Hebrew slaves. Then you have Jesus in 1 Peter 2:18 commanding "slaves obey your masters, even the cruel ones". It's a real bastion of morality, lol.
 
arg245

arg245

Audiophyte
Well, the politics of organizations, and their editorial staff, do matter to me. I come to the Audioholics site to read about audio, NOT about your politics. You can dispel with your own personal politics, because I'm simply not interested in them. Do you really need to write an article with a veiled reference to audio to simply get your own personal point accross? WOW!

I would have hoped that Gene would avoid having this happen on the Audioholics site.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Samurai
Well, the politics of organizations, and their editorial staff, do matter to me. I come to the Audioholics site to read about audio, NOT about your politics. You can dispel with your own personal politics, because I'm simply not interested in them. Do you really need to write an article with a veiled reference to audio to simply get your own personal point accross? WOW!

I would have hoped that Gene would avoid having this happen on the Audioholics site.
This is the Steam Vent that is steamy and not a safe place for snow flakes to fall into.
 

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